shirt tie...no jacket?

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

How about no sleeves?

I was not aware such a beast existed until now.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Can we all agree that the absolute worst would be a short sleeve shirt and tie, without a jacket?
Yes!

 

[sweisman]

Wow! I have to say that I wear a shirt and tie sans jacket quite often, and generally receive compliments on how I look more times than not...however you guys are starting to make me feel like an ass.

 

[blackplatano]

So what the hell is the conclusion?


Lets assume jacket and tie is out of the question and the only options are these;

Shirt, sans tie and jacket

Shirt and tie sans jacket

Shirt and jacket sans tie

jacket sans shirt and tie (

)


Which is most desireable? numbered from 1-3, 1 been best.

This is how I understand it.

1)shirt/jacket sans tie
2)shirt and tie
3)shirt alone

 

[Captain Tex]

1)shirt/jacket sans tie
2)shirt alone
3)shirt and tie

 

[greekgeek]

Considering the generally sloven appearance of 98% of the people I see on a daily basis, a well fitted shirt and nice tie sans jacket would be as welcome relief to my eyes.

Indeed I prefer seeing this if only to counter the number of douches who have abused the shirt+jacket sans tie look.

That is my 2 cents.

 

[JLibourel]

On reviewing this thread, I am struck by what a pity it is that the ascot (British day cravat) has become so marginalized and viewed as pretentious and costume-y by so many people, including, unfortunately, my wife. Personally, I am coming more and more to dislike wearing an open necked shirt except in the most casual of situations, e.g., hiking or something like that.

If I had to rate casual looks in order of elegance, I would rate them as follows:

1. Coat and tie
2. Coat and ascot
3. Coat and open-necked shirt
4. Shirt and ascot
5. Open-necked shirt

I might almost be tempted to rate "shirt and ascot" ahead of "coat and open-necked shirt." Friend williamson has been having an influence on me in these matters!

I absolutely abominate the practice of wearing a shirt and tie without a jacket (except in the privacy of one's office, preferably behind closed doors). I do notice that it is popular with a lot of younger fellows. I do not consider it an acceptable look under any circumstances.

 

[williamson]

Originally Posted by Meursault

The difference between going tieless and jacketless is that most people not wearing a jacket are doing it because they can't afford one, or can't afford a lightweight summer one.
How do you know? I think you should substantiate or withdraw this.

Originally Posted by Meursault

Most people wearing a jacket but not tie are doing it simply because it's more comfortable in the heat, or they want to make look more casual - this is why it's seen as more acceptable.
This is undoubtedly true, but both the action and the reason for it I find unsatisfactory.

Originally Posted by Meursault

...at my school, any teacher coming in without a jacket would be either laughed or given some stern words by the deputy headmaster, whereas in the summer, when 'summer dress' regulation were in force, going open-collared was positively encouraged.
I worked in two schools, in neither of which there was a dress code for the staff, though in the first there was a uniform for the pupils, and in neither institution would any figure of authority have said anything to colleagues about this. The question of "summer dress" simply did not arise.

Originally Posted by Meursault

I like the open-collared look, with the right shirt and suit - done well it looks sharp but relaxed. Shirt and tie without suit just looks like the work experience boy trying to look 'smart.'
Suit and open-necked shirt are (I repeat) incongruous. The suit belongs to the "formal" mode, the open-mecked-shirt to the "casual". Mixed modes, mixed messages.
Open-necked shirts with jackets were around in the early 1950s and the early 1970s. They looked sloppy and unfinished then and they do now.
As the son, brother, nephew, cousin, great-nephew and great-grandson of teachers, I am well used to the cheap gibes that people make about the dress of that profession, and am sorry that (admittedly in a gentle way) they appear on this forum.

 

[merkur]

..

 

[John Ellis]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

On reviewing this thread, I am struck by what a pity it is that the ascot (British day cravat) has become so marginalized and viewed as pretentious and costume-y by so many people, including, unfortunately, my wife. Personally, I am coming more and more to dislike wearing an open necked shirt except in the most casual of situations, e.g., hiking or something like that.

If I had to rate casual looks in order of elegance, I would rate them as follows:

1. Coat and tie
2. Coat and ascot
3. Coat and open-necked shirt
4. Shirt and ascot
5. Open-necked shirt

I might almost be tempted to rate "shirt and ascot" ahead of "coat and open-necked shirt." Friend williamson has been having an influence on me in these matters!

I absolutely abominate the practice of wearing a shirt and tie without a jacket (except in the privacy of one's office, preferably behind closed doors). I do notice that it is popular with a lot of younger fellows. I do not consider it an acceptable look under any circumstances.

If you lived and worked in somewhere really hot and sticky you might change your mind. I'm afraid I have to agree with your wife on the Ascot which has definitely passed into parody land. Also the notion that this would be cooler than just a shirt and tie is suspect. Any sort of scarf around the neck directly is very heating more so than a regular tie. We'd all prefer a jacket whenever a tie is worn but speaking from experience it's not always practical and in a choice between shirt and no tie and shirt with tie I'd go with the former.

 

[dopey]

I rode the subway today with a neighbor who wore a shirt and tie and no jacket. Nothing happened.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

How about no sleeves?

- B

The only thing on par with this would be with a polo shirt.

The horror!

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by Meursault

The difference between going tieless and jacketless is that most people not wearing a jacket are doing it because they can't afford one, or can't afford a lightweight summer one. ... I like the open-collared look, with the right shirt and suit - done well it looks sharp but relaxed. Shirt and tie without suit just looks like the work experience boy trying to look 'smart.'
Do I detect a hint of class bias and snobbery Mr Meursault? I have to agree with wiliamson that you should substantiate this.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by John Ellis

If you lived and worked in somewhere really hot and sticky you might change your mind. I'm afraid I have to agree with your wife on the Ascot which has definitely passed into parody land. Also the notion that this would be cooler than just a shirt and tie is suspect. Any sort of scarf around the neck directly is very heating more so than a regular tie. We'd all prefer a jacket whenever a tie is worn but speaking from experience it's not always practical and in a choice between shirt and no tie and shirt with tie I'd go with the former.

As to the matter of ascots, I was discussing them in the role of casual elegance. I would be the first to agree that they are no cooler (in the sense of "less hot") than a necktie. I think ascots come into their own when a slightly more carefree, sporty look than can be achieved with a necktie is wanted, yet without the inherent slovenliness of the open-necked shirt.

 

[FreedBird]

I don't see anything wrong with this look if it is done with well fitted trousers and a well fitted shirt. I think the problem is that most people who do the shirt and tie without a jacket disregard fit and wear poor quality, poorly chosen clothing and this is an absolute disaster. So, it can be done, but do it right.