NeoPrep -

[RussellStreet]

Originally Posted by Patrick06790

Russellean -

Nobody cares.

Nobody.

Except you.

2,063 hits for this thread so far, Chum.

I think NeoPrep is interesting.

 

[Patrick06790]

Originally Posted by RussellStreet

2,063 hits for this thread so far, Chum.

I think NeoPrep is interesting.

NeoPrep might be interesting. Your quest isn't.

 

[RussellStreet]

Originally Posted by Patrick06790

NeoPrep might be interesting. Your quest isn't.

No quest, Brother. Just a real interest in style. If it's not real then I ask why.

Here's an recent English company who plays with NeoPrep aesthetics - This stuff is everywhere:

http://www.jackwills.com/Default.aspx

Updated Preppy-esque stuff in England! Other brands play with the notion too at various price levels:

http://www.crewclothing.co.uk/defaul...ookie%5Ftest=1

http://www.crewclothing.co.uk/Sale_Mens_Blazers.html

Crew actually are more NeoPrep that JW.

And all of it an honest re-evaluation of the style. No hokum.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hokum


Best -

 

[RussellStreet]

NeoPrep in Paris:

http://www.dnrnews.com/site/article.php?id=1493

(Thanks to Mr. Marc Grayson for the link)

This is all very zeitgeisty at the moment, eh?

From the FNB NeoPrep thread:

"Just started putting English NeoPrep links on the SF thread & am amazed how this has all been around for so long as an updated style influence.

I really believe that this is the real zeitgeist manifestation of this look which has just been there quietly going about its business without being codified until now into NeoPrep. "Trad" predates NP by 3 and a bit years as a term on the Net. but NP gave birth to "Trad" I'm sure of it.
"Trad" is just the Southern NeoCon inspired manifestation of the look.

NeoPrep: It's what's really happening now & in Paris too! (Preppy Parade thread)

Very interesting!

Best - "

 

[waitwhat]

Originally Posted by RussellStreet

NeoPrep in Paris:

"Trad" predates NP by 3 and a bit ...uery.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A966958260

EDIT: I forgot to say this, but what I wanted to say is that I think that 'Trad' is the Japanese interpretation of what the American preppy look was supposed to be.

 

[RussellStreet]

"Trad" is indeed an old term in Japan which covers traditional Western clothing (English as well as American). "Ivy" in Japan singles out the American look.
Japanese "Trad" is just as you say. The use of the term in the US on AAAT is incorrect and also AAAT's Trad is very different to Trad in Japan. Japan sells the style as "young at heart" and "for everyone". Not so AAAT.

Flusser used the term 'Trad' in '96 (I think) when writing about Brooks. He used the term in its Japanese sense & explained it.
Tom22 picked up on it & used it on the old 'GoPreppy' website where Harris used to post as 'Skip'. Harris then brought the term to AAAC and in due course AAAT was spawned.

Well, that's one version of how the term hit the MBs. The other is just that Harris hit upon it through his endless Net. surfing (All his kosher info is Net. stuff recycled, the rest is his own invention and full of mistakes to those who know).

Harris himself has offered a number of different origins for the term, each one contradicting the others, since 2004. Equally his religion and place of birth have also changed over that time period too as his back story has developed and he has forgotten what he wrote before...

So, yeah, there is a style called Trad in Japan, but it's not AAAT's Trad. It's much more fun than that! The two aren't really linked that much at all & Japanese Trad fans think little of what AAAT is doing. I know. I've asked them.

AAAT's Trad really does grow out of the Southern Neocon NeoPreppy zeitgeist that JoeWoah writes about I'm sure. That's where it's coming from & that's fine if they're honest about it. It's just another manifestation of the whole NeoPrep thing which is around everywhere right now & has been for quite a while. What isn't quite so fine is AAAT pretending that it isn't just another Preppy rehash. That is the central flaw in the construct.

Why not just be honest like NeoPrep? Why pretend to a tradition that you don't represent? Seems very silly to me. AAAT Trad is Preppy based with a (very) few add-ons. Real Classic American style goes back further and is more diverse than what you see as 'Orthodox Trad' on AAAT. That's why I think that AAAT needs to revise what they are doing - Either be honestly NeoPrep or extend and expand their debate to cover the reality of classic American style in all its complexity. Their call.

But back to NeoPrep, eh?

Best -

Russ.

Originally Posted by waitwhat

I might be wrong in this, but I believe that is incorrect. The following article fom the New York Times in 1990 states that the Japanese called(and still do) Ralph Lauren as "trad". While Ralph Lauren is essentially very preppy, I can't help but think that "trad" was imported back to the United States by a handful of Americans enthusiastic about a more classical style.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A966958260

EDIT: I forgot to say this, but what I wanted to say is that I think that 'Trad' is the Japanese interpretation of what the American preppy look was supposed to be.

 

[dopey]

All this drivel about the history of the term "Trad" is tiresome, and you are making it up. I know it is false because a man in France told me it is. In any event, you are only distracting us from the point of this thread which is to see if you can insert a new term into the lexicon.

Go, go "NeoPrep"! Go, go internet!

Ivy is old. Trad is tired. NeoPrep is New!!


p.s. I am doing my part. Yesterday evening, I was walking by the J.Crew on Madison and went past one of the bright blond "associates" who was on the way out. She complimented my light cotton sports duffel and asked if it was from Jack Spade. No, I said, it is "spittin' NeoTrad" (I decided NeoTrad needs some lingo and "spittin'" was the only adjective I could come up with on the spot). She pretended she knew what I was talking about, so I knew she was hooked. It feels good to be part of a movement.

 

[RussellStreet]

Imagine how I feel to have found a soul mate!

NeoPrep sums this all up very well though.
It's what's really going on with this style right now.
"Trad" is a sideshow due to the trollish origins of the forum. Shame, that. It could overcome it if it wanted and really be something. But if not, then not.
None of my stuff is actually made up unlike the myth of "Trad", btw. You can tell that because it isn't simplistic like "Trad".

We should invent a NeoPrep lexicon of slang I agree. Somebody has to...

Sunny day here, Brother. I've got a little book-keeping to finish off then I think a drink would make a good next move. How about you?

As for NeoPrep, it makes more sense than "Trad". No?

So why not enjoy it?

Originally Posted by dopey

All this drivel about the history of the term "Trad" is tiresome, and you are making it up. I know it is false because a man in France told me it is. In any event, you are only distracting us from the point of this thread which is to see if you can insert a new term into the lexicon.

Go, go "NeoPrep"! Go, go internet!

Ivy is old. Trad is tired. NeoPrep is New!!


p.s. I am doing my part. Yesterday evening, I was walking by the J.Crew on Madison and went past one of the bright blond "associates" who was on the way out. She complimented my light cotton sports duffel and asked if it was from Jack Spade. No, I said, it is "spittin' NeoTrad" (I decided NeoTrad needs some lingo and "spittin'" was the only adjective I could come up with on the spot). She pretended she knew what I was talking about, so I knew she was hooked. It feels good to be part of a movement.

 

[khaki sack]

"Trad" is simply a new name for an older Americana style, which definitely predates 2004. Who gives a sh*t who came up with it first? It's irrelevant. It works. It's catchy.

The OPH didn't invent "Preppy"; it merely described (and satirized) it. The "Preppy" style existed long before the OPH.

"NeoPrep," like "Trad," is just a new name for an older style.

 

[RussellStreet]

You absolutely get it.

Nothing new, just different elements being brought to the fore under different names.

The name and construct of 'Trad' on AAAT is new, however, as was 'Preppy' as a construct in '81. But the stuff they're playing with and rehashing is old, old, old, just like you say. Only their names and slightly different takes on the style are new.

We don't do this in England you know. English style just stays put even though it morphs just as much as American style. An interesting cultural thing?

What is cute is that Preppy, Trad, NeoPrep are all fashions playing with classic style. You turn your classics into fads in the US.

A very neat trick. I'm a fan.

Best -

Originally Posted by khaki sack

"Trad" is simply a new name for an older Americana style, which definitely predates 2004. Who gives a sh*t who came up with it first? It's irrelevant. It works. It's catchy.

The OPH didn't invent "Preppy"; it merely described (and satirized) it. The "Preppy" style existed long before the OPH.

"NeoPrep," like "Trad," is just a new name for an older style.

 

[khaki sack]

Yes, there's nothing new about Trad, Preppy, and NeoPrep. Just different combinations. Of course some influences are more apparent than others. Slightly different takes.

Americans urgently feel the need to constantly reinvent things. Every generation consumes the style of previous generations, digests it, spits it out and sticks a marketing label to it as if it's something brand new. It's a waste of time, IMVHO, because we're always starting at ground zero again, but there you are.

Originally Posted by RussellStreet

You absolutely get it.

Nothing new, just different elements being brought to the fore under different names.

The name and construct of 'Trad' on AAAT is new, however, as was 'Preppy' as a construct in '81. But the stuff they're playing with and rehashing is old, old, old, just like you say. Only their names and slightly different takes on the style are new.

We don't do this in England you know. English style just stays put even though it morphs just as much as American style. An interesting cultural thing?

What is cute is that Preppy, Trad, NeoPrep are all fashions playing with classic style. You turn your classics into fads in the US.

A very neat trick. I'm a fan.

Best -

 

[RussellStreet]

^ I actually quite admire that as a quality in American culture and as a businessman I can see how it makes good financial sense too (to introduce a vulgar note).

Next week you and I could launch a new take on classic American style with another new name and combine a different set of elements and it would be just as valid. We could promote a version of 'Newport Style' maybe?

"Trad" slipped up by claiming to be THE style. But all that can be sorted out. Where there's a will there's a way.

Back to NeoPrep - A part of the genius of the name is that it is so generic. It only claims to identify the influence of Preppy updated for today. A perfect marketing position!
"Trad"'s '(self imposed) curriculum of style was far too narrow and finite. Too prescriptive. That's not the way to sell an idea. You don't want to exclude anyone. You should appear to be exclusive, but never stop anyone from buying your product.

I love all this stuff!

Russ.

 

[khaki sack]

What I meant was, although Americans do build upon styles that went before them, I don't think they will readily admit it and instead spend inordinate amount of time and effort making up a fictitious provenance for their new style. An example of this is the Trad reluctance to acknowledge the huge British influence within Trad.

Trad is just one style among many. But not all styles are equal.

Newport Style is a fantastic name/idea. I would like to see you expand on this. I have a mental image of what Newport Style would incorporate, blending old money East Coast style with young, fresh West Coast flair. Newport east + Newport west. But then again, hasn't this already been done?

NeoPrep...not sure about the name, come to think about it. This is all about marketing, right?

Originally Posted by RussellStreet

^ I actually quite admire that as a quality in American culture and as a businessman I can see how it makes good financial sense too (to introduce a vulgar note).

Next week you and I could launch a new take on classic American style with another new name and combine a different set of elements and it would be just as valid. We could promote a version of 'Newport Style' maybe?

"Trad" slipped up by claiming to be THE style. But all that can be sorted out. Where there's a will there's a way.

Back to NeoPrep - A part of the genius of the name is that it is so generic. It only claims to identify the influence of Preppy updated for today. A perfect marketing position!
"Trad"'s '(self imposed) curriculum of style was far too narrow and finite. Too prescriptive. That's not the way to sell an idea. You don't want to exclude anyone. You should appear to be exclusive, but never stop anyone from buying your product.

I love all this stuff!

Russ.

 

[james_timothy]

Originally Posted by RussellStreet

Why pretend to a tradition that you don't represent?

Because that is about an American a thing to do as anything Americans do.

 

[RussellStreet]

Originally Posted by james_timothy

Because that is about an American a thing to do as anything Americans do.

Well I do see your point, but usually the Americans (of whom I'm a great fan) usually do it with such skill. You chaps invented the first of the great modern advertising and marketing campaigns. You knew how to sell an idea better than anyone on earth by turning the old tricks of propaganda into art.

I think often aesthetically the old American 'Ivy League' style take on Traditional English style can even out-do the original English clothes on which they are based. The detailing of the old Brooks tweeds with all their welted seams, hooked vents, swelled lapel edges and patch and flap pockets can often look 'tweedier' than English tweeds. More evocative somehow. You took the English tradition and made it look even more traditional. Genius!

Khaki Sack - It's so cool how you see this! Yeah, NeoPrep as a name doesn't quite hit the mark to sell the idea to the masses, but it makes a nice insider's term. "Trad" is a perfect selling point on the other hand. What's in a name? A lot!

Newport style could be great fun and, yes, I bet it has been done before. Not much is new under the sun these days.
A chum of mine had the idea (nicked from Nantucket Reds and Marblehead Greens) of inventing 'Newport Blues' - A softly faded Cadet Blue heavy cotton flat fronted 'Sailing' Chino worn slightly short with maybe 2" cuffs. Why not? Reds were only invented around the late 50's or early 60's (forget which & am too lazy to check) and Greens only came along a few years ago.
Sell the 'romance' of Newport & you'd sell the trousers! Dress them up with a Trad blazer or down with a White polo shirt. Add a pair of 'Newport' topsiders. Classic relaxed American style!

Fun, all this, eh?

Best -