My First Made to Measure (MTM) suit buying experience

[Bill H]

Men, Usually I come on the forum asking for advice, but I am happy for the first time to actually contribute. Other novice-intermediates like me can definitely learn from my experience.

It is important to start by mentioning that at one point I happened into being a low level professional fit model, so things tend to fit me well off the rack. If you have atypical dimensions you may want to take much of this with a grain of salt.

So this was my first MTM suit, and I went with Isaia. I would like to start by saying that the quality of the suit is exceptional. Furthermore I bought the suit at Barney’s and I feel like they treated me well overall; they certainly guided me based on what they thought would look best and not what was most expensive. For that I am appreciative. I went with Isaia for 3 reasons: 1), their shoulder really compliments my build (shout out to Ed Morel for being a tremendous resource), 2) the overall quality is excellent, and 3) (which was definitely the deciding factor), after going to many places (Tom Ford, Attolini, Prada, Gucci, Zegna, Hickey Freeman, Canali, Armani, Ralph Lauren), I tried on an off the rack Isaia suit and have never before (or since unfortunately) seen a shoulder fit me so well.

So my MTM suit came back today and after trying it on, there is no way I will do MTM again. In fact, I am utterly disappointed. The problem with MTM IS THAT YOU PAY A PREMIUM AND YOU DON"T GET TO SEE THE FINAL PRODUCT UNTIL YOU ALREADY OWN IT. With off the rack, I can see the final product on me, and then I can say yes or no; i.e. I am basing my decision off of a completely known entity; with MTM, you see something similar to what you will be getting, but it can be surprisingly far from the actual final product. When you factor in the cost of MTM vs a similar suit on sale (particularly like Ebay, the forum, or even 50% off sales in store), for me the upside of choosing my fabric and having the potential to get everything spot on, is well outweighed by the risk.

This is just my experience and I would like to hear rebuttals/other people’s thoughts; however, here are the specific things to be careful of:

1) It can be tough to tell from a swatch (fabric sample) what the final product will look like. I learned today, that this is particularly important when you go with a pattern (like Isaia is known for). Up until I walked in today, I was pumped about my choice. Once I actually saw it, I didn’t hate it, but didn’t love it. If the suit was off the rack, I would have known this immediately and probably would have went with something else. To be fair, I still probably would have been excited about buying it, but only at 1/3 the price.

2) The fit- the off the rack suit that convinced me to go Isaia MTM fit well better, particularly through the shoulder, than did the current suit. It is not that the MTM shoulder fits poorly, it fits pretty good, but I am not happy that I paid big bucks to get a poorer result. I would say that 60% of my suits fit at least as good as the MTM suit does, with those suits costing on average 10% of this suit (most bought second hand pristine condition); one suit that fits as well as the MTM I got off ebay was actually exactly 1/100 of the price… you didn’t read that wrong.

3) Suit salesmen in general cannot be trusted. The guy I dealt with at Barney’s was a bit of an exception (I relatively trust him), and that is part of the reason I went with Barney’s (and I would do business with him again); however, many of the people I came across were straight slime balls. They reminded me of used car salesmen in many ways (as a generalization), several guys tried to sell me things that clearly didn’t fit. Like 5K suits that fit ridiculous. The low point was at Tom Ford on Madison. The guy told me that I could solve the problem of the shoulder being too large… by working out. You gotta be kidding me.

4) Perhaps Most importantly: make sure you know what you want, make sure you are comfortable with their measurements, and SPEAK UP if you are not entirely satisfied with how the process is going. The actual measurement process was super quick. If you are particular about length of jacket, or how the shoulder should fit, etc, like I am, make sure you are ready to be assertive because the measurement process only took about 10 minutes and they were not really looking for feedback. Much of this I cannot blame them for; it is not that they were not professionals; they were. It is just that they don’t really respect your opinion. This leads to an outcome that is likely quality, but may not be exactly what you have in mind. If I had to do it again, I would probably bring pictures of a fit I like, be it magazine or suits I own (things like jacket length, shoulder, chest, etc… things not easily fixed). I would also be ready to fight… tell them exactly what you want; and when something seems off, or even if you are not entirely comfortable for whatever reason, make sure you tell them. The salesman and I actually disagreed about the shoulder measurement. I went back the next day to ask for a re-measure but the tailors were off because it was Sunday. He assured me that it was right, and in his defense, he wasn’t lying, he genuinely thought he was doing the right thing. But now that the suit came in, I WAS RIGHT, and my prize for being right is a super expensive suit that fits only pretty good. The measurements happened so quick, but are so important… now I am stuck with something that is pretty good; but I was hoping for… rather I WAS EXPECTING something great. Be in there ready to fight. They want it to take 10 minutes, you want it to take 1 hour. To be honest, they should know better; you can’t change a shoulder after it is done, it deserves more thought and care. Please keep in mind that I was fairly assertive for a first timer and I got this result… they are going to think you are an annoying customer by moving along slowly, but better to be annoying and satisfied.

I hope this helps. Bill

 

[Marsay]

Thanks, Bill - that was informative.

Any chance of pictures?

 

[IChen]

Sorry to hear it didn't come out as a 10/10 piece.

Also curious, what did the SP say? Most SP who are experienced can pretty easily tell whether a customer will fight to get the feedback across or won't talk up about the measurement being only like 10 minutes/quick. Did you complain to him or the manager? You never know what could come out of that since you did say you didn't think the measuring was going how you wanted it.

 

[WSW]

At the end of the day, there's only so much you can do with MTM. The menu of customization options is limited and far fewer measurements are made compared to bespoke. I think it only works well if the off the rack model already fits decently and small modifications are needed. Of course, if you go to a major department store, the markup is tremendous. At these price points, I'd rather go full bespoke with a reputable tailor for the same money versus a salesperson trained to follow a checklist.

 

[Bill H]

Thank you for the thoughts and feedback, men. IChen, the salesperson I dealt with wasn't trying to rush me through per se, that is just how long I believe their process takes. He and the tailors came from more of a perspective of “we do this all the time and just trust us”. It was more like this is quick because we know what we are doing and you don't, so we really don't need much feedback. It was my first time in the environment and I remember thinking, "I don't know that much, but I know something, and I do know how important these measurements are... it feels strange that we are zipping through them so fast". Now that I think about it, what probably killed the precision is they did not have the actual model (Capri) that I bought, they only had a similar model (Gregory or whatever it has been rebranded), so I fit with that. The sales person was comfortable fitting off that, I am realizing now as I am writing, that was potentially my biggest mistake. To address your question more specifically, at no point in the buying/measurement process did I feel like I needed to complain; I liked the guy I was dealing with and within the limitations of sales I really feel like he was trying to look out for me (he actually tried to get me to go with a less expensive swatch... in hindsight he was probably right). However, I did have periods where I was not entirely comfortable (i.e., the measurements), but being a rookie, I spoke up a couple of times, but with no perspective I balanced my desire to push back with "these guys do this for a living, I have to trust them to some extent". It is important to say that I don’t hate the suit, I was just expecting something incredible (a 10/10 as you put it), and wound up with something only good. I think the two factors that led to my disappointment were expectations and cost. If the suit was not something I had to save for, like if it was 1% of my annual salary, and if I wasn’t into suits, I probably would be satisfied.
I want to conclude by saying that MTM just isn’t as simple as it seems. Intuitively, you think “OK, I get to pick the pattern, and they are going to make it to fit me; how can this not be better than off the rack”. I am sure some people’s experiences would suggest it is, I would just advise that it is not as simple as it seems.

Bill

PS- Marsay, you are certainly welcome. I actually don't have the suit yet as they are finishing the sleeves/hem; I may post pictures upon getting it back.
PPS- WSW, going full bespoke perhaps was the better option; however, I would imagine you run into similar issues of the "artist's" and the client's vision not being on the same page, but not realizing this until the final product is out there. In my intermediate opinion I would imagine bespoke has risk associated as well... I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[othertravel]

Just return it.

 

[Bill H]

Is that possible? Is that kosher?

 

[JubeiSpiegel]



Just return it.

Agreed, ask for a refund or ask for a remake.

From a high end B&M, 100% satisfaction should be part of their MTM program policy.

 

[IChen]

Is that possible? Is that kosher?

If you don't speak up or ask, the answer is always no, the end result is generally/tends to be 8/10 instead of 10/10. I'm not saying the SP is bad or anything at all, but as a SP myself, advising/offering something cheaper isn't something out of the ordinary.

Just ask for the manager, say you had a little different opinion during the measuring compared to the SP but it went his way. You might not get the refund, but very least there is a chance you get a remake.

 

[WSW]

Sure, bespoke has risk as will. You might not like the house style or the tailor might not be up to snuff. Thus, it pays to ask around here for experiences from other clients of the tailor(s) you are considering. You can also bring photos, drawings, etc. of suits you like to the prospective tailor and see if he/she is willing to make a similar style. A good tailor will be honest and tell you if your desired style falls into his/her comfort zone.

The plus side is that once you do your research and decide on your tailor, the overall experience and product is superior to that of MTM. You'll have three fittings for the first commission and as the suit progresses, you'll have the opportunity to make adjustments each time. A good tailor will be proactive in making these adjustments. And since it is bespoke, the possibilities are nearly endless and pretty much everything can be adjusted and modified.

 

[KWang94]

Thank you for the thoughts and feedback, men. IChen, the salesperson I dealt with wasn't trying to rush me through per se, that is just how long I believe their process takes. He and the tailors came from more of a perspective of “we do this all the time and just trust us”. It was more like this is quick because we know what we are doing and you don't, so we really don't need much feedback. It was my first time in the environment and I remember thinking, "I don't know that much, but I know something, and I do know how important these measurements are... it feels strange that we are zipping through them so fast".

Part of what's supposed to make the MTM/bespoke experience so great is optimizing the client experience. Yes, they might have done it a billion times but that's not necessarily the case for the client. The person overseeing your appointment may not have to take a measurement because they can tell just by looking but those little things are what add up to an enjoyable experience/

 

[NYDRH]

PS- Marsay, you are certainly welcome. I actually don't have the suit yet as they are finishing the sleeves/hem; I may post pictures upon getting it back.
PPS- WSW, going full bespoke perhaps was the better option; however, I would imagine you run into similar issues of the "artist's" and the client's vision not being on the same page, but not realizing this until the final product is out there. In my intermediate opinion I would imagine bespoke has risk associated as well... I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

A good bespoke operation should always be able to get you a suit that fits great and makes you look better than MTM or OTR could, they are not going to turn you into Clark Gable but they are going to give you the best possible version of yourself. This is not to say there arent bespoke nightmares, and there is some risk associated but if you find a reputable establishment you will be much better served than paying Barney's MTM prices. In a bespoke shop, this is all they do and they have a great deal of training in taking measurements, how anatomy and fit work together and they allow for fittings and adjustments that can not possibly be made to an OTR or MTM product. So you are not going to be shocked and surprised by an ill fitted odd "final product" you will have several steps in the process to raise fit concerns that are completely alterable. I wouldnt trust a salesman in any retail store to get MTM measurements right(Maybe Kiton or Brioni but at those prices you are better off buying multiple bespoke suits), I would guess they do MTM with a great deal less frequency as they pretend because the prices they charge really make bespoke a better alternative.

 

[GBR]

Shop keepers do not equate to cutters, have had ten minutes training, little idea of good or bad (if what they wear looks good you may be better served), the word 'figuration' is alien to their vocabulary and prefer commission to happy customers. Their main skill is in getting rags out of the door with minimum effort and then the commission keeps rolling in.

None of this surprises me, we've read it hear many times. Try again but take a great deal more care and if you are not happy, tell them so and make a scene in the shop. Shop keeper hate one customer shouting how shite they are in the hearing of other customers.

 

[Bill H]

First off, thank you for the advice re the current suit. Being relatively new I had no barometer as to appropriate expectations on my part. Your posts let me know that I should be super satisfied with the end product, and if not, I should speak up. So I contacted the store and as of now they are going to work with me. I will write more in the coming weeks (and probably months) when I have something to report. Still looking at how the off the rack fits me, I don't think I would go with MTM again. We will see if that changes upon the completion of this suit. As for the bespoke arm of this thread; thank you for the insight, it is quite useful personally for down the road. Happy holidays to you all, Bill

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

Any pics you can share going forward are always welcome, and can serve to provide better advice on fit or details you might have questions about.

So any pics that show how that RTW fits, or the MTM at every step, will be helpful. Even if you wanted to take a pic of swatches you were interested in, for a second opinion.