Zegna MTM vs. El Corte Inglés bespoke

[epa]

It actually seems that Zegna has a factory in Spain since 1973:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ermenegildo_Zegna

Although it appears that it is shrinking:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/catal...7elpcat_9/Tes/

So what do you say, Mafoofan?

(This reminds me about when my German brother-in-law complained about the bad quality of his Mercedes Vito van. I said: oh, so Germany does not produce quality cars any more? And he said: well, this Vito was made in Spain.... True.)

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by dragon8

I'd stick with what works for you.

Still, I'm always looking to improve. But I do not want to spend more than what I am spending right now. That is, I do not want to step up to those very famous tailors. So far, El Corte InglÃ

s seems to be OK value for money. But if I hear of something better, I might give it a try.
Actually, I went to Zegna the other day thinking of giving them a try again. But I just didn't like the idea of paying EUR 250 more for something that will probably fit me worse than a jacket with the same cloth from my El Corte InglÃ

s tailor. I don't know, but I do not really like that the jacket comes finnished, I really enjoy this "intermediate" fitting, I don't know the correct term, but you know, when you put on something looking like a cloth with a lot of stitching and canvas and only one sleeve, the tailor putting on shoulder patches, and all that stuff.

And, also, I enjoy discussing with my tailor. The salesguys at Zegna are nice, but I have more fun discussing with my tailor.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Nicola

You went for su misura cashco? I like my cashco but at made to measure prices I'm not sure it makes sense.

By the way, I think that su misura only costs about 10-15% more than RTW. But, of course, with su misura you cannot take advantage of the sales. It is really a shame. The Zegna shop is one of the few in town that invites me to the pre-sales, when there is still a lot to choose from, but unfortunately I have no use of it when it comes to suits and jackets.

And just to clarify one thing: I am not an anti-Zegna person. I have just had some bad experiences. But I still buy things like denim (three of my favourite denim trousers are Zegna), cotton trousers, casual shirts, turtlenecks, etc., at Zegna. Especially during sales.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by epa

Of course the problem may not be unique to Zegna. Did I say so? If I did, I apologize.

You said that the poor fit of your MTM indicated that Zegna is lower quality then you expected for the price paid. My point was simple: fit is a separate issue from manufacturer quality.

Originally Posted by epa

I am sure you are right. The problem is: where? I tried a few, I am fairly satisfied with this one. So I will stick with him until I get a hint about someone likely to be better. At a similar price. In my town.

I don't understand what you're asking, then. Is this thread about whether your local tailor is better than Zegna, or about whether you should switch tailors, or what?

Originally Posted by epa

True. But I am not sure my Zegna MTM jackets are of higher quality than my MTM (or possibly bespoke) Corte InglÃ

s ones.

That's exactly what you were claiming in your original post. You suggested that the Zegna value is bad compared to the value offered by your bespoke tailor because his suits fit you better. In order for that to be true, you're implicitly suggesting that Zegna quality is equal or less than your tailor's.

Originally Posted by epa

Yes. And?

You offered your alterations tailor's opinion as a basis for believing your El Corte Ingles tailor is good. If his opinion is suspect, then it doesn't serve as a good basis.

Originally Posted by epa

It actually seems that Zegna has a factory in Spain since 1973 . . .

So what do you say, Mafoofan?

(This reminds me about when my German brother-in-law complained about the bad quality of his Mercedes Vito van. I said: oh, so Germany does not produce quality cars any more? And he said: well, this Vito was made in Spain.... True.)

I don't know what to say. I'm thoroughly confused by what you're trying to accomplish in this thread. I never said Zegna did not, in fact, make things in Spain. We were talking about the authenticity of your Zegna suits and I simply noted that I had not heard of Zegna making suits in Spain. The only relevance of that comment was to the question of authenticity, which you have clearly settled.

 

[radicaldog]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

From the sounds of it, it isn't so much that Zegna MTM is a questionable value at its price, but that your tailor sells an exceptionally inexpensive bespoke product. He charges about what Chan charges in Hong Kong. At that price, I'd want to know what I'm truly getting. Perhaps there is very little, if any, hand-sewing. Maybe it is actually factory-made MTM, but with a basted fitting. Or perhaps it is bespoke, but your patter is nonetheless sent to a factory somewhere.

Even in Europe true bespoke, handwork and all, doesn't have to be as expensive as you seem to imply. Not even in London, once you walk a few blocks away from St James.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

You said that the poor fit of your MTM indicated that Zegna is lower quality then you expected for the price paid. My point was simple: fit is a separate issue from manufacturer quality.

It seems that we see things differently. For me, fit is part of the quality. An important part. If it were not for the fit, I would stay with RTW.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I don't understand what you're asking, then. Is this thread about whether your local tailor is better than Zegna, or about whether you should switch tailors, or what?

Good question. Basically, I think that the thread was to express my surprise that Zegna charges me more for a product of their own cloth that I perceive to be of inferior quality to what my local tailor produces with the same cloth that he has to buy from Zegna. Now, actually, both Zegna and my tailor seem to be local: in the Zegna MTM program, measurements are taken at the local Zegna boutique and manufacture seems to take place in a Spanish province (one of the Catalan provinces). At El Corte InglÃ

s, measurements are likewise taken in Madrid. No idea about where manufacture takes place (but I believe it to be locally). But I like the fitting of the half-finnished product.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

That's exactly what you were claiming in your original post. You suggested that the Zegna value is bad compared to the value offered by your bespoke tailor because his suits fit you better. In order for that to be true, you're implicitly suggesting that Zegna quality is equal or less than your tailor's.
Not necessarily. I think that you are wrong here.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

You offered your alterations tailor's opinion as a basis for believing your El Corte Ingles tailor is good. If his opinion is suspect, then it doesn't serve as a good basis.
That guy was not an alteration tailor. He was a tailor that had spent his whole life working as a tailor in Madrid. El Corte InglÃ

s is an important player in the field. I had the impression that he was transmitting a fairly general opinion that existed in his trade. Maybe I am wrong. But I assure you that I have no reason to try to convince people of the benefits of El Corte InglÃ

s. I am no shareholder there. And even if I were, I wouldn't use this forum to try to promote the company. I am a shareholder of BBVA and I can tell you that I find it a lousy bank and I would recommend you to stay away from it.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I don't know what to say. I'm thoroughly confused by what you're trying to accomplish in this thread.
I am sorry for the confusion. Maybe this is just a therapy-revange on Zegna for having suggested that there is something wrong with my crotch.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I never said Zegna did not, in fact, make things in Spain. We were talking about the authenticity of your Zegna suits and I simply noted that I had not heard of Zegna making suits in Spain. The only relevance of that comment was to the question of authenticity, which you have clearly settled.
You are welcome.

 

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by epa

No. A shop at calle Serrano in Madrid does not have an address in a Catalan province. Sorry. Don't know where you are from, but it is like a shop in N.Y. using an address in El Paso or something like that.




I'm in Italy. Allegedly many generations ago I've got spanish links but that was way before I was born

Sounds like the shop you ordered from then sent the measurements to a second one? If that's the case then three different groups dealt with your measurements. The people who measured you. The shop in Catalan. Then the factory.

 

[dragon8]

Originally Posted by Nicola

I'm in Italy. Allegedly many generations ago I've got spanish links but that was way before I was born

Sounds like the shop you ordered from then sent the measurements to a second one? If that's the case then three different groups dealt with your measurements. The people who measured you. The shop in Catalan. Then the factory.

Then there lies the problem.

 

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by epa

By the way, I think that su misura only costs about 10-15% more than RTW. .

It's just that cashco is one of their cheapest fabrics. If you're going to pay full retail plus the MTM charge I'd really have to like the cashco. Why didn't you pick one of the linen or light weight wools?

Plus with it being 90% cotton I find it hangs differently.

Which cut did you get? The only Cashco I have is an older Soft jacket. I think it's cut slightly smaller in the shoulders then the Milano jackets are.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Nicola

I'm in Italy. Allegedly many generations ago I've got spanish links but that was way before I was born

Sounds like the shop you ordered from then sent the measurements to a second one? If that's the case then three different groups dealt with your measurements. The people who measured you. The shop in Catalan. Then the factory.

No, the shop I ordered from is the Madrid one. I guess that they sent the measurements to the factory in Catalonia. So there was no second shop involved.

What surprised me was that the guy in the shop made me put on an RTW jacket and then took measurements in a way that, as far as I understood, implied that my MTM jacket would be produced on the basis of the deviations between my body and the RTW jacket. You see what I mean? I didn't find that a very promising starting point.

But, of course, one single mistake doesn't mean that Zegna is no good. I didn't want to imply that.

On the other hand, there is nothing in the finnish of my regular tailor's products that make me feel inclined to consider them inferior to the Zegna products, even if we disregard fit. I do not know it there is less handwork. Frankly speaking, I don't care. I just want the cloths to look good on me and feel good wearing them.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Nicola

It's just that cashco is one of their cheapest fabrics. If you're going to pay full retail plus the MTM charge I'd really have to like the cashco. Why didn't you pick one of the linen or light weight wools?

Plus with it being 90% cotton I find it hangs differently.

Which cut did you get? The only Cashco I have is an older Soft jacket. I think it's cut slightly smaller in the shoulders then the Milano jackets are.

I see what you mean.

I wanted to try the Zegna "su misura" program. So I looked through the entire book. I liked this charcoal cloth. I liked the colour and the texture. And I found a charcoal odd jacket to be a fairly versatile item that I could use for business (in my trade) (with a tie) and for going casual (sans tie). A bit of an alternative to the navy blazer (I don't like navy).

So this cashco jacket that I am complaining so much about is actually still one of my favourite items, not because of the fit but because it is so versatile and because I like the touch of it. Similar to moleskin, I believe. Actually, I was thinking about getting a corduroy jacket. I think that cashco is pretty close: as you say, mostly cotton (I think that my jacket has 95% cotton and only 5% cashmere).

I don't know which cut I got. But it is not especially small in the shoulders.

By the way, I got another Zegna MTM jacket in a cloth called shetlair that was even cheaper than the cashco one. I think that the cashco jacket cost me around EUR 1000-1100, whereas the shetlair jacket cost me just under EUR 900. That was a couple of years ago. Both of them still get a lot of use.

(I hope that this post will not add to the confusion that this thread seems to have given rise to. If it does, I apologise in advance.)

 

[Dan e gee]

I also have two pairs of Ermenegildo Zegna pants that have the Barcelona tag inside.
EZETI.SL. CIF B60690179
Ronda Dels Mallols No 23-27
01892 Sant Quirze Del Valles (Barcelona)

The company name is
Ezeti Sociedad Limitada http://en.datocapital.com/EZETI-SL.html

as you can see from the info (link) it is EZ Spain