OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Thread

[Joffrey]

Was happy with the episode.

 

[otc]

Didn't euron say they took his best ships...not all of them? Don't have to rebuild a whole fleet if you still have much of one left.

I don't know if Arya is really getting muddled in a bad way, although it came quickly (probably should have let her get her hands dirty a second time first). She definitely tried to avoid eating their food so she could kill then without breaking guest right, but she has now left the house of black and white--she needs to learn that the world is not black and white.

I feel like they were teasing us with a chance at Lady Stoneheart by showing the murder in the intro, killing the Freys, and then bringing out Beric.

 

[gort]

Reminder for my signature.

 

[otc]

I looked back and it seems that Asha/Yara and Theon only ran off with ~100 ships, which must not have been all of the fleet. I think most of Dany's ships still come from Dorne, the Tyrells, and the former slavers.

Although I suspect it is Tyrion he actually intends to bring her. What's the status of the dragonhorn in the TV show? Doesn't exist right? I feel like they would have already hinted at it if the plan was for him to use it to steal a dragon.

 

[Ataturk]

The idea that they built and crewed a thousand ships in a few months is utterly preposterous, especially given the previously established scale of the world, where each of the kingdoms could only field 20-30,000 men before the wars broke out.

Oh, also, yeah, of course he's going for Tryion. He said it like four times. Otherwise what else is Tyrion going to do for the rest of the show?

 

[Michigan Planner]

Is this foreshadowing a Tyrion/Euron road trip to rival Arya and The Hound?

 

[otc]

The numbers are definitely inflated. Book-wise, the total number of full-size "ships" in the world at this point probably numbers in the high thousands. And that's including the big slavers and merchant guilds that account for 3,000+ ships.

Supposedly Braavos could put out a warship a day, although those are much larger and more complex than the iron islands typical longships that they would probably build in a hurry. Still though, especially without a reserve of actual lumber and resources, the numbers are just too high.

That Lannister fleet that Euron sunk? It was like 30 boats...and presumably the reason they had to lead a daring mission to sink the fleet in the harbor was because 30 boats was enough to be a real threat.

You don't even really need thousands of ships. Dany could easily make multiple trips dragonstone...and then ferry them to the mainland in overloaded boats. Given that canons don't exist and that she has dragons, it is not like she should really be at risk of overladen troop carriers being sunk en route.

 

[Mariokartfever]

I think the horn went the way of Victorian Greyjoy.

 

[otc]

So...is Jon the rightful heir to the throne (at least going back to the Targ's conquering of westeros)? Or does someone have to officially legitimize his bastard status? Who can do that if his father is dead?

Thinking about how the Jon and Dany interactions will play out. Many of Dany's supporters are drawn to her (Dothraki/slaves), but she's still got a lot of support coming from people who believe in her true pre-Robert's Rebellion claim to the throne....and she believes it is rightfully hers. I.e. she is not motivated purely out of conquest, but rather out of reclaiming what belongs to her family.

Where is she going to draw the line between what belongs to her and what belongs to her family? She's definitely less merciful than Jon and might have a hard time handing it all over to someone who would let traitors keep their castles.

 

[SixOhNine]

Not sure Jon is the legit heir. I can't remember, but I think it's unclear if Rhaegar married Lyanna, first off. Second, even if he did, anyone who would know Jon's their kid is dead, with the possible exception of Howland Reed. And there's no guarantee that a) Ned told him, and b) that he's even still alive.

Though with the simplistic storytelling and crowdpleasing bent that the writers are exhibiting, I'll be unsurprised to see him pop up, deus ex machina style, to explain the whole thing.

 

[Mariokartfever]

Not sure Jon is the legit heir. I can't remember, but I think it's unclear if Rhaegar married Lyanna, first off. Second, even if he did, anyone who would know Jon's their kid is dead, with the possible exception of Howland Reed. And there's no guarantee that a) Ned told him, and b) that he's even still alive.

Though with the simplistic storytelling and crowdpleasing bent that the writers are exhibiting, I'll be unsurprised to see him pop up, deus ex machina style, to explain the whole thing.

Bran also knows now.

On top of that - Rob legitimized Jon when he thought both his other brothers had been killed by Ramsay, IIRC this was season 3 of the show leading up to the red wedding. He wrote and signed that document (against Catelyn's wishes) in front of several people, including Maege Mormont and Galber Glover (both sent to Greywater Watch), The GreatJon (still captive in the books, no idea where he is in the show), and an unknown captain from Oldtown (may end up running into Sam). Not sure who has that document now, but that Makes Jon king - regardless of who his mother is.

As to the marriage part, it's almost certain Rhaegar married Lyanna as he was pretty convinced of some prophecy he read about his son from another wife doing something important (plus the historical precedent of Targs taking multiple wives).

 

[SixOhNine]

All true, but none of that really helps.

Bran isn't an actual, physical witness; I'm not sure what probative value the visions of a greenseer have.

And Rob's actions just make the situation worse- that makes Jon Ned's legal son, and removes his claim to the throne via Targaryen blood. At best, that makes him "legitimate" King In The North (to the extent that a breakaway rebellious region is legit), not of the full Seven Kingdoms. We're hypothesizing a bake off between Jon (quasi legitimate son of the Targaryen Crown Prince), and Daenerys (acknowledged younger sister of the Targaryen Crown Prince, and last known surviving member of the royal family). Jon's connection to Rhaegar is all that counts. Take it away and he's just a dude that has a disturbing tendency to make everyone around him die unpleasantly.

As for proving the marriage, we'd need a marriage certificate, if such a thing even exists in Westeros, or the priest and/or witnesses from the ceremony, and I'm gonna guess that those folks, if there were any to begin with, are dead or unknown.

 

[Ataturk]

The Targaryens were notorious polygamists. And, IIRC, the real nature of Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna Stark wasn't a secret. Lots of people apparently knew about it (if not about Jon himself).

In the book there's (supposedly) another of Rhaegar's kids (Jon's older half-brother) running around out there and his chances of being recognized by anyone seem pretty slim.

Surely we all know from watching the show that no one cares who the legitimate heir really is.

 

[Mariokartfever]

We need a westerosi lawyer to sort this out

 

[Mariokartfever]

The Targaryens were notorious polygamists. And, IIRC, the real nature of Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna Stark wasn't a secret. Lots of people apparently knew about it (if not about Jon himself).

In the book there's (supposedly) another of Rhaegar's kids (Jon's older half-brother) running around out there and his chances of being recognized by anyone seem pretty slim.

Surely we all know from watching the show that no one cares who the legitimate heir really is.

Isn't the fan consensus that Aegon is actually Illyrio's son? I might be miss-remembering that.