Milk consumed after a weight workout results in greater increases in muscle than a so

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by tiecollector

I thought soy used to be a trash crop instead of a cash crop. Somehow good marketing made it profitable recently, probably because they are easy to grow. I'd stay away from soy products unless you are craving some edamame during sushi.

What are you talking about? Some of the healthiest cultures (e.g. Japan) use soy products extensively in their cuisine. Tofu, beansprouts, edamame... These are all great additions to a healthy diet

 

[Bandwagonesque]

Originally Posted by whodini

A liter? Jesus...

I almost always mix whey with half water/half milk since it's easier on my stomach and tastes a lot better.

This is what I do too. Vanilla powder + water usually tastes like crap, but add in some milk and magic happens. Sometimes I add a 1/2 teaspoon of instant coffee to the shake.

 

[Gradstudent78]

Originally Posted by gdl203

What are you talking about? Some of the healthiest cultures (e.g. Japan) use soy products extensively in their cuisine. Tofu, beansprouts, edamame... These are all great additions to a healthy diet

That doesn't necessarily mean that soy is the cause or even necessarily related to their being healthy. There are certainly worse things to eat and it can be a part of a healthy diet, but I think it's been overhyped as a "health" food.

 

[uNotAzFreshAzImIz]

How is it overhyped when it IS healthy ?

 

[SamIam33]

Ive heard that too.... that milk hydrates you and puts make nutrients you lost working out. I've tried it and it actually does work.

 

[Gradstudent78]

Originally Posted by uNotAzFreshAzImIz

How is it overhyped when it IS healthy ?

Because it's a food that can be part of a healthy diet and healthy lifestyle, not some type of wonderfood that is going to cure all health your problems if you eat it.

If you have a diet high in protein sources that contain saturated fat, cholesterol, etc and replace those sources with soy, then yes you'll have health benefits, but the evidence isn't really convincing that you wouldn't get the same benefits from eating other protein alternatives.

Basically some of it's beneficial properties may have been overstated.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy

In January, 2006 an American Heart Association review (in the journal Circulation) of a decade long study of soy protein benefits casts doubt on the FDA allowed "Heart Healthy" claim for soy protein. This review of the literature compared soy protein and its component isoflavones with casein (isolated milk protein), wheat protein, and mixed animal proteins.[23] The review panel also found that soy isoflavones have not been shown to reduce post menopause "hot flashes" in women and the efficacy and safety of isoflavones to help prevent cancers of the breast, uterus or prostate is in question. Thus, soy isoflavone supplements in food or pills is not recommended. Among the conclusions the authors state, "In contrast, soy products such as tofu, soy butter, soy nuts, or some soy burgers should be beneficial to cardiovascular and overall health because of their high content of polyunsaturated fats, fiber, vitamins, and minerals and low content of saturated fat. Using these and other soy foods to replace foods high in animal protein that contain saturated fat and cholesterol may confer benefits to cardiovascular health."[24] The original paper is in the journal Circulation: January 17, 2006.[25]

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by Gradstudent78

not some type of wonderfood that is going to cure all health your problems if you eat it.
Who claimed that? There is a wide margin between "not a wonderfood that cures all health problems" and the statement I reacted to, which was "I'd stay away from soy products"

 

[Gradstudent78]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Who claimed that? There is a wide margin between "not a wonderfood that cures all health problems" and the statement I reacted to, which was "I'd stay away from soy products"

I was referring to it being overhyped in general, not in this thread. It was in response to uNotAzFreshAzImIz question.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by Gradstudent78

I was referring to it being overhyped in general, not in this thread. It was in response to uNotAzFreshAzImIz question.

Just read the responses a few posts above yours. I'd say the newfound fear of all things soy among the fitness community is massively overhyped as well.

Originally Posted by montecristo#4

I don't understand why anyone would drink soy, unless you're lactose intolerant. There is zero upside.

Originally Posted by tiecollector

I thought soy used to be a trash crop instead of a cash crop. Somehow good marketing made it profitable recently, probably because they are easy to grow. I'd stay away from soy products unless you are craving some edamame during sushi.

 

[Gradstudent78]

Originally Posted by whacked

Just read the responses a few posts above yours. I'd say the newfound fear of all things soy among the fitness community is massively overhyped as well.

I would agree

edited to add the following study for those interested:
http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/4/abstract
Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2007, 4:4

Background

Evidence suggests an inverse relationship between soy protein intake and serum concentrations of male sex hormones. Anecdotal evidence indicates that these alterations in serum sex hormones may attenuate changes in lean body mass following resistance training. However, little empirical data exists regarding the effects of soy and milk-based proteins on circulating androgens and exercise induced body composition changes.

Methods

For 12 weeks 20 subjects were supplemented with 50 g per day of one of four different protein sources (Soy concentrate; Soy isolate; Soy isolate and whey blend, and Whey blend only) in combination with a resistance-training program. Body composition, testosterone, estradiol and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) were measured at baseline and week 12.

Results

Protein supplementation resulted in a significant increase in lean body mass independent of protein source (0.5 ± 1.1 and 0.9 ± 1.4 kg, p = 0.006, p = 0.007). No significant differences were observed between groups for total and free testosterone, SHBG, percentage body fat, BMI or body weight. The Testosterone/Estradiol ratio increased across all groups (+13.4, p = 0.005) and estradiol decreased (p = 0.002). Within group analysis showed significant increases in the Testosterone/Estradiol ratio in soy isolate + whey blend group (+16.3, p = 0.030). Estradiol was significantly lower in the whey blend group (-9.1 ± 8.7 pg/ml, p = 0.033).

Conclusion

This investigation shows that 12 week supplementation with soy protein does not decrease serum testosterone or inhibit lean body mass changes in subjects engaged in a resistance exercise program.

 

[montecristo#4]

Originally Posted by whacked

Just read the responses a few posts above yours. I'd say the newfound fear of all things soy among the fitness community is massively overhyped as well.

My statement regarding soy was based on a few clear cut things:

1) It's higher in fat than (fat free or 1%) milk.
2) It has less protein than milk.
3) It doesn't taste as good as milk.
4) It feels "heavier" than milk, and probably takes longer to digest.
5) You don't get the same benefits of calcium and vitamin D.

I don't have anything against soy milk. I don't think it is a bad thing. But stupid overweight middle aged women who walk into Starbucks and think they're getting a healthy drink when they order a quad venti soy mocha are sorely mistaken. They'd be better off choosing milk instead.

I think if anything milk is the beverage that has gotten a bad rap. Sure, whole milk is ***** as hell and probably not the best thing for you. But reduced fat milk, taken in moderation, is a good thing.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by montecristo#4

My statement regarding soy was based on a few clear cut things:

1) It's higher in fat than (fat free or 1%) milk.
2) It has less protein than milk.
3) It doesn't taste as good as milk.
4) It feels "heavier" than milk, and probably takes longer to digest.
5) You don't get the same benefits of calcium and vitamin D.

1) By only a small margin. Soymilk contains polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat, both of which when consumed in moderation are heart-healthy.
2) By only a small margin, and not across the board. For example, Kirkland Plain Organic Soymilk (what I drink) has 8g of protein and 100 cal. in 8 oz, exactly the same as 1% milk. Granted fat free varieties have about 10g protein per 100 cal., but you shouldn't get all your protein from milk anyway.
3) Try Kirkland Vanilla Soymilk (identical nutritional values, FYI). I have never met anyone who doesn't like its taste.
4) Casein, which makes up 75% of milk protein, break downs much slower than the protein in soy / bean etc.
5) Most soymilk nowadays come fortified w/ both.

Originally Posted by montecristo#4

But stupid overweight middle aged women who walk into Starbucks and think they're getting a healthy drink when they order a quad venti soy mocha are sorely mistaken. They'd be better off choosing milk instead.
So a quad venti mocha w/ the same amount of milk (stupid overweight people likely won't choose fat free; not that it matters anyway) and 4+ packets of splenda is better, you think? How about some real coffee?

 

[montecristo#4]

Originally Posted by whacked

1) By only a small margin. Soymilk contains polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat, both of which when consumed in moderation are heart-healthy.
2) By only a small margin, and not across the board. For example, Kirkland Plain Organic Soymilk (what I drink) has 8g of protein and 100 cal. in 8 oz, exactly the same as 1% milk. Granted fat free varieties have about 10g protein per 100 cal., but you shouldn't get all your protein from milk anyway.
3) Try Kirkland Vanilla Soymilk (identical nutritional values, FYI). I have never met anyone who doesn't like its taste.
4) Casein, which makes up 75% of milk protein, break downs much slower than the protein in soy / bean etc.
5) Most soymilk nowadays come fortified w/ both.


So a quad venti mocha w/ the same amount of milk (stupid overweight people likely won't choose fat free; not that it matters anyway) and 4+ packets of splenda is better, you think? How about some real coffee?

Oh yeah, I forgot the final factor -- real milk cost considerably less than soy milk. Case closed.

 

[Viktri]

I grew up drinking both soy and milk in my house (and eating dairy/soy products)
Soys OK
It's not healthy, per say but it's not going to kill you
People who eat soy all the time aren't going to get the results they expected as a consequence of consuming the soy. It really doesn't matter.

I do prefer milk with protein shakes because I'm not a fan of fortrified stuff. I prefer to get my stuff as natural as possible (not always possible to achieve)

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by gdl203

What are you talking about? Some of the healthiest cultures (e.g. Japan) use soy products extensively in their cuisine. Tofu, beansprouts, edamame... These are all great additions to a healthy diet

That may be a myth. Here's a quote from Dr. Kaayla T. Daniel:

"Peter Golbitz, of Soyatech Inc, a soy-industry information center, reports that the average consumption per year in China, Indonesia, Korea, Japan and Taiwan ranges from 9.3 grams to 36 grams per day. Compare that to a single cup of tofu that weighs in at 252 grams and think about the people you know who are eating soy every day, several times a day.

Others too have reported that Asians eat very little soy. When T. Colin Campbell of Cornell University traveled around China to survey the dietary habits of 6,500 adults in 130 rural villages, he reported that they ate an average of 12 grams of legumes per day. Probably only about one third of this amount is soy. (For some inexplicable reason he never got the figures on soy alone.)"