Milk consumed after a weight workout results in greater increases in muscle than a so

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by ken

That may be a myth.
No it's not a myth at all. I was not referring to rural China but Japan. Everyone I know there eats soy products every single day (either in form of tofu, miso, nato, shoyu sauce or many other derivations).

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by gdl203

No it's not a myth at all. I was not referring to rural China but Japan. Everyone I know there eats soy products every single day (either in form of tofu, miso, nato, shoyu sauce or many other derivations).

Anecdotal evidence. Dr. Daniel cites specific studies. I'll believe the latter, unless you have over 6,500 friends in Japan.

Modern soy products are very different from those eaten pre-industrialization. Personally, I chalk up any absence of maladies in Japan compared to America to the crappy diet of Americans, rather than a superior diet of the Japanese.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by ken

Anecdotal evidence. Dr. Daniel cites specific studies. I'll believe the latter, unless you have over 6,500 friends in Japan.
LOL. Believe who you want but again, that's not what I said. I did not refer to the "average consumption per year in China, Indonesia, Korea, Japan and Taiwan" - my point was about Japan. Again.

Originally Posted by ken

Personally, I chalk up any absence of maladies in Japan compared to America to the crappy diet of Americans, rather than a superior diet of the Japanese.
So you're saying that A is inferior to B, but that B is not superior to A? That makes a whole lot of sense now...

Whatever - eat what you want and stay healthy

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by ken

Dr. Daniel cites specific studies. I'll believe the latter, unless you have over 6,500 friends in Japan.

Born and brought up in Vietnam myself, I probably don't have 6,500 friends (yet). But one thing I can say for sure: tofu, cooked in many different ways, is one of the more popular food; most people have it at least once a day.

I also question this statement in particular:

Originally Posted by ken

reports that the average consumption per year in China, Indonesia, Korea, Japan and Taiwan ranges from 9.3 grams to 36 grams per day. Compare that to a single cup of tofu that weighs in at 252 grams and think about the people you know who are eating soy every day, several times a day.
Most of tofu weights come from water, not fat, carb, or soy protein, the latter I suspect was used in the report.

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by gdl203

So you're saying that A is inferior to B, but that B is not superior to A? That makes a whole lot of sense now...

I don't understand this. Who is A and who is B? Do you have the frequency of occurrence of diseases like hypothyroidism, interstitial cystitis, and vulvodynia in Japan and America?

In your first statement, you said:

Some of the healthiest cultures (e.g. Japan) use soy products extensively in their cuisine... These are all great additions to a healthy diet

I took this to mean that the inclusion of soy causes a culture to be more healthy than a culture which does not include soy. That's not true, and I don't think there's any evidence or data that even hints it might be true. There are too many factors to consider, and the most notable is that there's evidence the Japanese may not even eat that much soy.

What we do have evidence of are animals with defected sexual maturity when fed a soy diet in infancy, lowered testosterone levels in humans and animals when fed plant estrogens, etc.

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by whacked

Born and brought up in Vietnam myself, I probably don't have 6,500 friends (yet). But one thing I can say for sure: tofu, cooked in many different ways, is one of the more popular food; most people have it at least once a day.
Once a day is probably fine. I don't have much to back this up, but I'd think the diet in Vietnam consists of much less processed food than in America. In America, almost everything has processed soy and soy byproducts in it. Somebody in America might unknowingly eat far more soy than a Vietnamese who eats tofu once per day.

 

[Opcn]

Dairy cows in the US are given rBGH shots to increase milk production and efficiency, this in turn causes higher levels of IGF 1 (insulin-like growth factor 1) to be produced, this is a myogenin and leads to larger muscle fiber diameter using a pathway it shares with Growth Hormone. Now this is a protein, so a good deal of it will be digested, but its so small and compact (insulin like) that some of it makes it through digestion.

Some of you may remember scientists breeding super mice a few years back with big bulging muscles from little or no work, they did this with IGF1, they apparently expressed it right in the muscles or something like that and got beefy little mice. High IGF levels have a correlation (not necessarily a causal relationship) with some diseases like Diabetes type 2, so don't go out and start injecting it off the internet.

 

[wiru]

Originally Posted by ken

Anecdotal evidence. Dr. Daniel cites specific studies.
That book seems pretty sketchy. From a tiny publishing house, by an author who apparently has never published in a peer reviewed journal. And, Peter Golbitz -- the one who collected those figures on soy consumption -- said "she has grossly misread and misused these numbers in a way that indicates either a "hidden" agenda to distort facts or an ignorance of food processing and ingredient labeling." (http://mothering.com/sections/extras/soy-letters.html)