Can you live in _____ for $1100/month?

[maufic]

Originally Posted by 83glt

I would wager my left nut that a very strong majority (say, at least 2/3's) of foreigners who visited both Toronto and Montreal, would rate Montreal as having the finer culture. Again, Toronto is a great place to live if you don't care about culture. It is indeed "like New York without all the stuff."

I would wager the opposite, based on the people I have talked to during my travels and relatives I have living around the world. What would you base your opinion on, just plain ingorance.

 

[sonick]

Originally Posted by maufic

That being said my problem is not with Montreal, but with the way Montrealers have to always bash other Canadian cities (Toronto in particular) to the rest of the world. I'm not sure if they do this out of insecurity, hoping that they can convince people around the world that they are the center of all that is good in Canada, but it really gets on my nerves.

It's not just Montrealers. All other Canadian city beside Toronto love to bash Toronto and Torontonians.

 

[maufic]

Originally Posted by sonick

It's not just Montrealers. All other Canadian city beside Toronto love to bash Toronto and Torontonians.

That's true. I really don't get it. People from out west complain when Quebecers bash the rest of Canada, then they turn around and bash Toronto.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by sonick

It's not just Montrealers. All other Canadian city beside Toronto love to bash Toronto and Torontonians.

This is acutally true. My uncle from Calgary bashes Toronto.

 

[sonick]

Originally Posted by maufic

That's true. I really don't get it. People from out west complain when Quebecers bash the rest of Canada, then they turn around and bash Toronto.

Originally Posted by GQgeek

This is acutally true. My uncle from Calgary bashes Toronto.

I believe it is the common perception of Torontonians that they are all elitest, self-centered yuppies who think they are the 'center of the universe' and that because they are the most important city of Canada, everybody else should cater to whatever is best for Toronto.

Its amusing listening to the anti-Toronto hate coming from the afternoon sports radio talk show hosts; one had worked for TSN (Toronto Sports Network? ) in the past and the other for Rogers Sportsnet.

 

[closetmess]

Originally Posted by 83glt

Montreal has self-esteem issues? Dude, why are there so many wankers running around Toronto fancying themselves as New Yorkers? Toronto is Canada's asshole. Montreal on the other hand, is the only city Canada has going for it.

Originally Posted by 83glt

I'm not in/from MTL, W. And I sure as hell ain't from T.O. ******* shoot me should I ever end up in that pisshole.

Originally Posted by 83glt

Nice defence of your city W. Instead of insults, how about giving our OP a single good reason why Toronto should be considered? That there are Persians there doesn't count.

Originally Posted by 83glt

"As far as Montreal being the only city Canada has going for it, where the hell does that come from. What does Montreal, or Quebec for that matter, have that makes them so much better than the rest of the country?"

Answer: Culture

Originally Posted by 83glt

Let's not forget the CN Tower, SkyDome, and the "Canadian Walk of Fame." Ya, culture.

Originally Posted by 83glt

Montreal has finer women, better food, better nightlife, more interesting architecture, a more innovative music scene, more sophisticated art scene, cooler neighbourhoods, and generally cooler people than Toronto. Oh yeah, and a vastly superior hockey team.

To be fair, Montreal has its share of douchebags and annoying separatist assholes, and it obviously has its political problems and quirks, but on balance this does not detract from their otherwise superior culture. In fact, it adds to it.

Toronto is just lame and has way more douchebags and hipster wankers who want desperately to believe they're really New Yorkers. You see, that's the key difference. Montrealers are happy to be Montrealers. They're comfortable in their own skin because they have a great culture. Torontonians on the other hand, are insecure and define themselves as "Canada's New York." It's just so ******* ridiculous.

How you can possibly consider that Toronto has a more sophisticated culture than Montreal is simply laughable.

Ultimately, you live in Toronto. I don't live in Montreal. You're biased, and I am not. Toronto may very well be a pleasant place to live for some. But it's not for me, and nor is it for anyone who considers culture an important part of one's home town.

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

Yeah, maybe, but in reality, it's all Canada. Meaning it's about as relevant as my home state of Indiana.

Originally Posted by 83glt

I'm not a Montrealer. How is it laying the smackdown if all he's doing is attacking my way of defining culture? If you don't define culture by the things I listed, then how is one to define it? Particularly in light of the earlier post demanding I list the resons why I believe Montreal has more/better culture than Toronto? Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess....

I would wager my left nut that a very strong majority (say, at least 2/3's) of foreigners who visited both Toronto and Montreal, would rate Montreal as having the finer culture. Again, Toronto is a great place to live if you don't care about culture. It is indeed "like New York without all the stuff."


Now, now, cornered animal, whatever happened to res ipsa loquiter?

 

[blackjack]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Your definition of "central Tokyo" being what?


In most common definitions of "Central Tokyo" all three places I mentioned are included.

It's not like some distant suburb - it's not even across the river. There are 23 wards in Tokyo. And Sumida, Taito, and Arakawa are not even that far out from "the center".

You make it sound as if its in another city. Its just a different neighborhood. You also make it sound unsafe, which its not. Especially compared to the cheaper, more run down neighborhoods in any US city. The homeless people in Tokyo don't bug you, they just sleep, smoke, and shuffle around. It's not like they are aggressive panhandlers. the Yakuza likely won't bug you. In fact, in all my time there, I've seen more Yakuza in Shinjuku than in Minowa. You are less than ten minutes by train from the first stop in "central Tokyo"

'Central Tokyo' does not include all 23 wards. Yes - while I agree the worst slum in Japan might still be safer than the worst ghetto in the US, it is still a slum. If Central Tokyo (Shibuya, Minato, Chiyoda, Chuo, Shinjuku... maybe Meguro & Bunkyo) is like what Manhattan is to NYC, then San'ya would be like a mix of South Bronx and Hart Island (it's uninhabited, once served as a prison and now is a gravesite for John & Jane Doe's and the destitute).

I do have friends who live out in the shitamachi areas and beyond. When we're out drinking, they usually need to join the general salaryman rush to catch the last train or shell out for a $50 plus cab fare home - and sometimes they'll try to suggest venues closer to Tokyo Station/Yurakucho instead of the usual NishiAzabu/Roppongi/Shibuya/Ebisu hangouts. If you're not a drinker, then this will hardly matter to you.

Two guys who went to Tokyo University indicate that two nearby shitamachi neighborhoods Yanaka and Nezu are two of the most attractive to live in. Apparently they escaped the bombing in WWII. If you're an "Alex Kerr"/"green tea & onsens"-type, you'll probably love it.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by blackjack

'Central Tokyo' does not include all 23 wards. Yes - while I agree the worst slum in Japan might still be safer than the worst ghetto in the US, it is still a slum. If Central Tokyo (Shibuya, Minato, Chiyoda, Chuo, Shinjuku... maybe Meguro & Bunkyo) is like what Manhattan is to NYC, then San'ya would be like a mix of South Bronx and Hart Island (it's uninhabited, once served as a prison and now is a gravesite for John & Jane Doe's and the destitute).

I do have friends who live out in the shitamachi areas and beyond. When we're out drinking, they usually need to join the general salaryman rush to catch the last train or shell out for a $50 plus cab fare home - and sometimes they'll try to suggest venues closer to Tokyo Station/Yurakucho instead of the usual NishiAzabu/Roppongi/Shibuya/Ebisu hangouts. If you're not a drinker, then this will hardly matter to you.

Two guys who went to Tokyo University indicate that two nearby shitamachi neighborhoods Yanaka and Nezu are two of the most attractive to live in. Apparently they escaped the bombing in WWII. If you're an "Alex Kerr"/"green tea & onsens"-type, you'll probably love it.

Well I am pretty familiar with Tokyo. Telling me that you cannot live there on $1100 a month is false. You cant expect to do that in nearly any city. And that wasnt really the OP's question.

Your semantics about whether you will be able to live close to the main nightlife and entertainment aside, Central Tokyo is what you think it is. Many people disagree with you, and most people I know, dont confine their perspective of "central" to mean anything more than Middle. While the places I mentioned may not be close to Roppongi or Shibuya, they are not even close to being out in the suburbs or anything. Its close to plenty of other stuff. Ueno is within walking distance of Minowa on a nice night. Ginza is pretty close by, Akihabara is close. So you don't get to go hang out with all the drunken tourists and get assaulted by pushy Rastafarians... I don't see how that is preferrable to walking around and seeing some homeless people sleeping.

Roppongi is just as far from the "Center" of Tokyo as anything else. I believe if I'm not mistaken that its fewer stops from Tokyo Stn. to Asakusa than Roppongi.

 

[blackjack]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Well I am pretty familiar with Tokyo. Telling me that you cannot live there on $1100 a month is false. You cant expect to do that in nearly any city. And that wasnt really the OP's question.

Your semantics about whether you will be able to live close to the main nightlife and entertainment aside, Central Tokyo is what you think it is. Many people disagree with you, and most people I know, dont confine their perspective of "central" to mean anything more than Middle. While the places I mentioned may not be close to Roppongi or Shibuya, they are not even close to being out in the suburbs or anything. Its close to plenty of other stuff. Ueno is within walking distance of Minowa on a nice night. Ginza is pretty close by, Akihabara is close. So you don't get to go hang out with all the drunken tourists and get assaulted by pushy Rastafarians*... I don't see how that is preferrable to walking around and seeing some homeless people sleeping.

Roppongi is just as far from the "Center" of Tokyo as anything else. I believe if I'm not mistaken that its fewer stops from Tokyo Stn. to Asakusa than Roppongi.

You're right. I re-read the OP and he was looking to just get by. I was focusing on quality of life -- and specifically quality of life for Westerners. For those wanting to live a Wapanesey life kind of like David Carradine, probably would find more options out in Kyoto.

Not everyone can afford to live in prime areas like Hiroo, Omotesando, Aoyama, Azabu, Ebisu etc., and there are cool liveable areas outside the Yamamote actually worth the commute such as Yoyogi-Uehara or KitaShimozawa. Some guys have found really interesting deals on newly built condos overlooking the Sumida River in Tsukiji (if you don't care that one day an earthquake will turn all the re-claimed land out there into a pile of quicksand). East Tokyo shitamachi - and especially a burakumin slum like San'ya - however doesn't cut it.

You probably could live off of $1100 per month - but I think if you were to tackle Tokyo especially - you'd be hard-pressed to say you'd be able to have an enjoyable lifestyle.

* I think you meant pushy Nigerians and Ghanians. The ones in Harajuku of course will tell you "I'm from Jamaica, mon" (they found out that pretending to be from New York does not work very well)

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by blackjack

You're right. I re-read the OP and he was looking to just get by. I was focusing on quality of life -- and specifically quality of life for Westerners. For those wanting to live a Wapanesey life kind of like David Carradine, probably would find more options out in Kyoto.

Not everyone can afford to live in prime areas like Hiroo, Omotesando, Aoyama, Azabu, Ebisu etc., and there are cool liveable areas outside the Yamamote actually worth the commute such as Yoyogi-Uehara or KitaShimozawa. Some guys have found really interesting deals on newly built condos overlooking the Sumida River in Tsukiji (if you don't care that one day an earthquake will turn all the re-claimed land out there into a pile of quicksand). East Tokyo shitamachi - and especially a burakumin slum like San'ya - however doesn't cut it.

You probably could live off of $1100 per month - but I think if you were to tackle Tokyo especially - you'd be hard-pressed to say you'd be able to have an enjoyable lifestyle.

* I think you meant pushy Nigerians and Ghanians. The ones in Harajuku of course will tell you "I'm from Jamaica, mon" (they found out that pretending to be from New York does not work very well)

I didn't ask to see a passport.

All I know is that there is a guy roaming Kabukicho with a Jamaican accent who now has one less eyeball because he grabbed ahold of the wrong asian.

As I said, there are a whole lot of apartments in the Minowa/Minami Senju/ Asakusa area that cater to westerners, no key money, western bathrooms, english speaking leasing agents, etc. They are not that hard to find. They are going to small, but you can find several if you look for under $700 and over 180sf. If anyone is ever interested, I can probably find something for them in that range in a matter of minutes.

Of course, as with any other apt, you'll want to take a look at it before you hand them money. Theres always the chance that its like a sixth floor walk-up or something.

 

[83glt]

Originally Posted by closetmess

Now, now, cornered animal, whatever happened to res ipsa loquiter?
I like Toronto?

 

[SField]

Originally Posted by sonick

I believe it is the common perception of Torontonians that they are all elitest, self-centered yuppies who think they are the 'center of the universe' and that because they are the most important city of Canada, everybody else should cater to whatever is best for Toronto.

Its amusing listening to the anti-Toronto hate coming from the afternoon sports radio talk show hosts; one had worked for TSN (Toronto Sports Network? ) in the past and the other for Rogers Sportsnet.

Well it's pretty easy to make fun of Toronto sports since their teams are all garbage. I mean, having the richest, most valuable team in the NHL, being considered one of the premier hockey teams, and then not being able to win a ******* cup in over 40 years...

good god.

 

[sonick]

Originally Posted by SField

Well it's pretty easy to make fun of Toronto sports since their teams are all garbage. I mean, having the richest, most valuable team in the NHL, being considered one of the premier hockey teams, and then not being able to win a ******* cup in over 40 years...

good god.

They don't even bother bashing the Leafs (everybody already knows they suck), rather they are bashing big media and the corporations, and the sense of entitlement Toronto/Torontonians have because they are the 'capital' of Canada.

 

[maufic]

Originally Posted by sonick

They don't even bother bashing the Leafs (everybody already knows they suck), rather they are bashing big media and the corporations, and the sense of entitlement Toronto/Torontonians have because they are the 'capital' of Canada.

I would think that instead of bashing Toronto these people would be more interested in improving the cities they live in. They are the type of people who make themselves feel better by putting others down instead of building themselves up. Besides, this so-called sense of entitlement that Toronto feels is such bullshit. Most people in Toronto can't stop talking about how much they love visiting Montreal, Vancouver and the rest of Canada. There is no sense of entitlement expressed by most Torontonians. I think this is just something people make up so they have a reason to bash Toronto.

 

[sonick]

Originally Posted by maufic

I would think that instead of bashing Toronto these people would be more interested in improving the cities they live in. They are the type of people who make themselves feel better by putting others down instead of building themselves up.
Well considering Vancouver regularly tops Toronto as the world's best city to live in/best quality of life (actually Vancouver has jumped back to #1 in the latest 2008 survey for the most livable city in the world), so I don't think that is much of an issue. The rest of Canada just loves to hate on Toronto.