Ambrosi Napoli

[Kuro]

^i've oftern heard that historically tailors didn't ask for deposit. don't know if that's true, and in a today's global economy probably silly not to do so.

 

[R.O. Thornhill]



^Oh, thanks, K. There certainly was no need, but I probably would have done the same. I hereby clarify. Thanks too about your experience regarding deposts. There doesn't seem to be a global standard. Certainly SA should have made it clear to Snikta if he expected a deposit or the full payment. I'm no Ambrosi apologist, but I do think he's a nice guy. As much as his customers want to be his friends, I think he wants to be his customers' friends. But if I were him, I'd try to establish more professional relationships. That includes not having lunches or accepting rides from clients, except perhaps for a few rare ones who truly are friends. Love can quickly turn to hate, as we've seen here. And SA may have thought he had more leeway with people he considered his friends. Ethier way, @EliodA , etc., I think many of the problems surrounding Ambrosi are cultural. We (North)Westerners ( incl. Aus) a re used to certain standards of professionalism that include standard prices, standard delivery times, and 100% honesty. But that just isn't the case in perhaps the majority of the world where precision isn't as high of a value, and a small lie is often thought to be more acceptable than telling the truth and causing anger. But if SA wants to do business with people who expect (North)Western standards of professionalism, he probably should change his ways. Or those who want pants from Naples should change their expectations. Maybe a bit of both would be ideal.

Based on the number of references to unpaid tailors bills in the biographies of notable men coming of age in the first half twentieth century I guess that the taking of a deposit is a recent but understandable invention. I have certainly always paid a 50% deposit for bespoke - whether with steed, chittleborough & morgan, kilgour, turnbull & asser, sean o'flynn, Napoli su Misura, cleverley, Ambrosi or anyone else R-O-T

 

[poorsod]

Given all the recent brouhaha, I am now curious as to what's so great about these pants that people are willing to go through all this trouble. Ambrosi is at NYC at the end of the month. Now I'm wondering if I should get a pair just to see what it's all about.

I guess PT Barnum was right, all publicity is good publicity.

 

[venividivicibj]

Given all the recent brouhaha, I am now curious as to what's so great about these pants that people are willing to go through all this trouble. Ambrosi is at NYC at the end of the month. Now I'm wondering if I should get a pair just to see what it's all about.

I guess PT Barnum was right, all publicity is good publicity.

everyone who's bought them says they are the most comfortable pants they have ever worn.


unfortunately, I don't think I can ever afford that kind of comfort. but if you can, all the more power to you

 

[marcodalondra]

I was wondering why so many "not interested" party have jumped to his defence just giving SA accounts/versions of events, as the truth. Even the statement that he does not make his own trousers as his is busy, and what he wears is not representative of his trousers... Come on ... Since the very first pictures of him have surfaced on the internet he has always worn such cut of trousers. That is his style, the one he likes to wear obviously.
This is true of many out workers in Naples and I have an issue with this: they wear jeans, tight trousers, etc, and then you need to trust them making you a good classical cut pair of trousers... The same for some shirtmakers meeting customers in T-Shirt... At Donn'Anna Napoli, the master shirtmaker received and measured me in full track suit...
Edit and added: And the payment terms were clearly discussed over those messages as well as in person, so knowing his reputation of course you should not pay in full but only with proof of finished garments ready to ship.

 

[JensenH]



It's remarkable to see how the people who are defending Sr. Ambrosi only relate their own positive results or about what a nice guy he is (as if that matters), and then resort to ad hominem attacks on those who dare to criticize him, while carefully avoiding to address the elephant in the room: the fact that Sr. Ambrosi has been lying to at least some of his customers.
I don't think anybody here has problems with the (ridiculous) delays per se, but the fact that he's been evading customers with lame excuses and making false promises time and again, is what is putting people off.
If Sr. Ambrosi treats 90% of his customers like kings, but pisses 10% of his customers off, then there's still something wrong with his business ethics. And saying that the delays have been caused because his business has been expanding rapidly and he doesn't want to compromise on quality is not a valid excuse either. He shouldn't have accepted more orders than he's capable of fulfilling. Poor business ethics again.

I have no personal stake in this matter: I have not and will not order bespoke trousers from Ambrosi. I might have considered ordering from him when I return to Europe next year, based on the glowing reviews on the various igent blogs (a few of them written by his defenders here) etc., but I'm glad to have found this thread on SF to learn about another side of the story. The lesson I've learnt from it is: if you're not part of the igent incrowd or order through one of his agents, it's not unlikely that there'll be trouble ahead.

Do people come here for the gossip and for stirring up ****? Perhaps some do. But you know, 90% of the internet is about gossip and stirring up ****. If you don't like it, don't read my posts or put me on your ignore list. But don't tell me not to post here because I am not a customer of Ambrosi.
Why am I so 'passionate' about this matter if it doesn't even concern me directly? Precisely because of that, the arrogant tone of the sycophants who want the criticasters to shut up while ignoring the valid concerns that they have.

Very well said.

 

[JensenH]



^Oh, thanks, K. There certainly was no need, but I probably would have done the same. I hereby clarify. Thanks too about your experience regarding deposts. There doesn't seem to be a global standard. Certainly SA should have made it clear to Snikta if he expected a deposit or the full payment. I'm no Ambrosi apologist, but I do think he's a nice guy. As much as his customers want to be his friends, I think he wants to be his customers' friends. But if I were him, I'd try to establish more professional relationships. That includes not having lunches or accepting rides from clients, except perhaps for a few rare ones who truly are friends. Love can quickly turn to hate, as we've seen here. And SA may have thought he had more leeway with people he considered his friends. Ethier way, @EliodA , etc., I think many of the problems surrounding Ambrosi are cultural. We (North)Westerners ( incl. Aus) a re used to certain standards of professionalism that include standard prices, standard delivery times, and 100% honesty. But that just isn't the case in perhaps the majority of the world where precision isn't as high of a value, and a small lie is often thought to be more acceptable than telling the truth and causing anger. But if SA wants to do business with people who expect (North)Western standards of professionalism, he probably should change his ways. Or those who want pants from Naples should change their expectations. Maybe a bit of both would be ideal.

So all those unprofessional conducts, including publicly insulting one's customer as in the case of Foo is a cultural thing? I wonder why NSM doesn't behave this way. Look, people posting their negative experiences -- and there are quite a few -- are doing a public service. Ambrosi lovers may not mind the lengthy waits, the appalling lack of communications, the lies, and other unprofessional conducts from Ambrosi. But potential customers who do mind are warned what to expect by reading these posts.

 

[chogall]

Oh, Chogall... Take a look at the past couple pages. He called SA a POS three times in the past few days.

I did not call Snitka a "non paying customer." I said he hadn't paid the full balance, which was what he said himself. Details matter.

And I am not "piling on." I'm trying to pick people out of the pile and sort out the fight. If you read my posts, you'd see that I criticized those who piled onto both SA and Snikta.

Come on chogall, you're better than that.

Yes he did, I forgot about that. My memory only last one forum page long.

I was just fooling around until I see this:

Yeah, the "pile-on mentality" irritates me too. You could see it primarily against Ambrosi when Snikta, etc. posted but also against Snikta after you and T4 posted.

Re. "the facts," I certainly don't think anyone has them all. Those several pages of texts showed there had been a lot of communication but not whether the pants had been remade or repaired.
It was good of Snikta to admit he hadn't paid the full balance for the three pairs ordered.


At least one good thing came out of all this.
The video I posted of course. In case you missed it:

This implicitly implies that he didn't receive all three pairs because he didn't pay the full balance. What's the point of using the words 'good' and 'admit' to describe @snikta 's details disclosure of his experience? That's as if you are encouraging and acknowledging his confession on his wrongdoings. In my opinion, your diction framed @snikta as the party who fucked up the transaction of his new order with SA.

@snikta paid for two pairs, in full, for his July order, agree to pay the deposit/full for his Oct order when they next met. If combined, that's enough deposit to cover four pairs. He received one pair from his July order and one pair from his Oct order at the end, with mixed results.

So in reality, SA fucked up snikta's order. Even if we blocked out @snikta 's non-paying (more like no-chance-to-pay) order, SA still fucked up the July order by delivering the wrong pairs of pants. Snikta was never able to pay SA for the third pair as he was not able to visit SA in person despite his multiple attempts.

It's somewhat understandable that you fault @snikta for all his drama as you pay your bespoke orders (with traveling tailors) in full at the time of ordering. However,

Quote:

I have certainly always paid a 50% deposit for bespoke - whether with steed, chittleborough & morgan, kilgour, turnbull & asser, sean o'flynn, Napoli su Misura, cleverley, Ambrosi or anyone else

R-O-T

I share similar experiences with bespoke makers as well but my list is much more humble and my orders are mostly for shoes.

This was going to be a PM, but I think its more appropriate here, as @snikta was treated with capricious behaviors by SA, received a legal threat. Yet some are still piling on him, rubbing more salt to his wound.

EDIT: SA is a good guy and I like his pants silhouettes. Personally I prefer dealing with local retail agents, easier to communicate.

 

[emptym]

"Non paying" means he didn't pay anything. Not paying the full balance means he didn't pay everything. Do you see the difference? I said he did the latter, not the former. So, no, I was not trying to say Snikta was totally at fault, just to give him props for admitting something difficult.

I think you have some other facts regarding the payment and ability to pay confused too.

Either way, it certainly seems as though both SA and Snikta could have done better in this. But all we have to go on are internet posts, so I see no real cause make any real judgments.

 

[emptym]

So all those unprofessional conducts, including publicly insulting one's customer as in the case of Foo is a cultural thing? I wonder why NSM doesn't behave this way.

Look, people posting their negative experiences -- and there are quite a few -- are doing a public service. Ambrosi lovers may not mind the lengthy waits, the appalling lack of communications, the lies, and other unprofessional conducts from Ambrosi. But potential customers who do mind are warned what to expect by reading these posts.

No, I only attribute to culture the things I actually attributed to culture.

I have absolutely no problems with people posting negative experiences. As I mentioned, I've posted some myself. But I do think that people complaining should disclose the whole story and I think those who love to "pile on" could find better ways to spend their time. Btw, was it the Paone thread where you did what DWW said you did in the Rubbinaci one?

 

[9thsymph]

"Non paying" means he didn't pay anything. Not paying the full balance means he didn't pay everything. Do you see the difference? I said he did the latter, not the former. So, no, I was not trying to say Snikta was totally at fault, just to give him props for admitting something difficult.

I think you have some other facts regarding the payment and ability to pay confused too.

Either way, it certainly seems as though both SA and Snikta could have done better in this. But all we have to go on are internet posts, so I see no real cause make any real judgments.

Snikta did NOTHING wrong (except wash his first pair of pents...). You didn't read his post clearly enough, because you are still confusing exactly what, when, and how the payments vs. orders transpired...

Any attempt to make SA and Snikta seem equally culpable is ridiculous.

Full disclosure: I am still planning on getting trousers from SA, but through the Armoury trunk shows...

 

[emptym]

I wouldn't say they're equally culpable. But I do think it would have been good for Snikta to let us know SA had repaired or replaced the pants at no cost to him and that he hadn't paid the entire amount for the missing pairs.

Why do you think I'm confusing the payments? What did I say that was incorrect?

 

[sugarbutch]

The phrasing implies that the undelivered pants are in some way related to payments/lack of payments. My reading is that snikta made every payment requested by Ambrosi and that he has paid in full for the pants received to date.

 

[JensenH]



No, I only attribute to culture the things I actually attributed to culture.

I have absolutely no problems with people posting negative experiences.  As I mentioned, I've posted some myself.  But I do think that people complaining should disclose the whole story and I think those who love to "pile on" could find better ways to spend their time.  Btw, was it the Paone thread where you did what DWW said you did in the Rubbinaci one?

If it is a cultural thang, then why other Italian tailors, besides Ambrosi and to a lesser extend Solito, do not behave this way. You still have not answered my question.

I still don't really know why DWW said I was "slagging off" (whatever that means) on Rubinacci. I have absolutely no recollection of posting anything critical of Rubinacci. I posted that a Rubinacci sport coat was not a remarkable fit on a forum member because it was obvious.. I call it as it is. Is that your definition of "piling on"?

Since you are the Mod and has access to all the posts, why don't you re-post it here.

 

[emptym]

The phrasing implies that the undelivered pants are in some way related to payments/lack of payments. My reading is that snikta made every payment requested by Ambrosi and that he has paid in full for the pants received to date.

T4 and DWW's posts seemed to assert that. There definitely is a conflict regarding that, whether the pants were remade or replaced and whether they were shipped or hand delivered. I didn't see anything conclusive about that in the emails or texts Snikta posted. So we just have contrasting posts from two sides, so far at least. Is that not so?

If it is a cultural thang, then why other Italian tailors, besides Ambrosi and to a lesser extend Solito, do not behave this way. You still have not answered my question.

I still don't really know why DWW said I was "slagging off" (whatever that means) on Rubinacci. I have absolutely no recollection of posting anything critical of Rubinacci. I commended that a Rubinacci sport coat was not a remarkable fit on a forum member because it was obvious.. I call it as it is. Is that your definition of "piling on"?

Since you are the Mod and has access to all the posts, why don't you re-post it here.

I thought that was a rhetorical question. I have no idea or experience with NSM. But I do have experience with delays and exaggerations from others. So when SA told me "two weeks" I knew that he didn't mean two weeks. Was it irritating? Yes. Do I wish he was precise with his language? Yes. But I don't leap to insulting him or those who like his product.

OK. Here are a few:

I'm a simple man, so let me see if I understand this thread:

Foo: mine's the best
Yours will be inferior
My words are the gospel
Yours are drivel, so shut up already
I have 11
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah

Manton:

I WON! Hic, YOU ARE ALL ******* MORONS.. Hic

Quote:

The way he is so crappy all the time, I suspect it is a bad case of crabs.