~The Plan~

Havent posted on here in a while as some things have come up, but now Im back. When I fist came here I was looking for a fast and esy way too lose weight, I was desperatley looking for the quick way to get what I wanted, although after thinking about it their really isnt an easy way to get anything you want in life, you have to work for every thing, and I have come to realize that.

Anyways a new gym has opened up about 10 mins from my house and 5 mins from my school, so I joined it. I plan to start working out in the mornings before school, since its supposedly easier and faster to lose weight if you do it before you eat in the moring , atleast this is what I have heard, if this is untrue please advise me. I plan to get to the Gym by 630 and workout till 730. I will aslo ba active during PE in the afternoon running, playing touch football and street basketball. Also I heard that its bad to lift weights if trying to lose weight and that I should only do cardio is this true?

My main goal is to lose weight and be more defined. So I wasnt sure if I should do only morning cardio for 1 hour a day for 5 days a week or if I should do morning cardio for 30 mins and then morning weights for 30 mins a day for 5 days a week. Which would give me the most noticable results in the least amount of time, I ask this not becasue IM looking for a quick fix but because I would like to have a noticeable change by my Europe Trip which is May 25, 2007. By then I would like to be down to 220 lbs. Right now Im 280 lbs but people are suprised when I tell them and they say I look like I weigh 200. So I guess my goal is 60 lbs or a noticeable change. And once I get my weight down I would like to keep it off for good.

Below is a routine I just made witht the help of what the exercsies do on www.snapfitness.com so if anyone has a simler routine or any comments or advice on this one I jsut made please share.

Mon: 30 mins Cardio and 30 mins Upperbody
Tue: 30 mins Cardio and 30 mins Lowerbody and Abs
Wed: 30 mins Cardio and 30 mins Upperbody
Thurs: 30 mins Cardio and 30 mins Lowerbody and Abs
Fri: 30 mins Cardio and 30 mins Upperbody and 30 mind Lowerbody and Abs


Upperbody

~ Chest:
5 x 12 DB Decline Fly
5 x 12 DB Incline Fly

~Shoulders:
5 x 12 Anterior Shoulder Rise
5 x 12 DB Standing Row

~ Triceps:
5 x 12 DB Over Head Tricep Extension
5 x 12 Overhead Tricep Extension

~ Back:
5 x 12 Machine Lat Pull Down
5 x 12 DB Bent Over Row

~ Biceps:
5 x 12 DB Curl
5 x 12 DB Curl

Lowerbody and Abs

~Quads
Work this when I do cardio

~Calfs
Work this when I do cardio

~Hamstrings
5 x 12 Machine Hamstring Curls

~ Abs
5 x 12 Situps

Too much volume, too much cardio too close to weightlifting, too much isolation, not enough deadlifts and squats. Just like every other program that someone who is new to training will write Also, you don't work your legs with cardio. It doesn't work like that. why write your own program when you have no background in strength training?

Umm thanks for the bump but do you think I could get some advice on fixing it or makings it better istead of all negative comments. Also you donthave to squat and dead lift... duh

I'm a weightlifter (with experiance in both powerlifting and olympic lifting), so maybe I can help you out. Plus this is my first post on here so I'll try and make it a useful one.

I have been lurking on this forum for a little while and noticed the buzz about squats and deadlifts. This is actually great to see on a style forum, about five years ago you would probably see nothing of the sort. People are starting ot figure out that bodybuilding routines don't work for natural (meaning without the help of anabolics) novice lifters. While that's great, I think some people may be missing the big picture.

What your trying to induce by weight training is supercompensation, your body reacting the stimuli and becoming stronger (if your interested in more of this, research Selye's theory). There are lots of ways to do this, and for a beginner just about everything works to some degree. This fact is the main reason you see that most guys in the gym don't really make much progress. When they began, they used some program and made gains on it (because pretty much anything a beginner does will spur some gains since they are so far away from their genetic potential). Then that program stalled and they stuck with it or something similiar - and progress stops. They can get leaner, they might make some gains here and there, they try all the new magazine recommendations ... but still they aren't making gains. It's a product of poor education (magazines, even the majority of trainers, are horrible tools).

So what does work?

1. The Movements

We could go into a whole scientific ramble, but what works is compound movements (that's what deadlifts and squats are), the movements that work your body as a system or at least a partial system. Deadlifts, squats and pressing movements are a good basis of a program for this reason, from the novice level to the elite. If you think about it, working your body as a system rather than as individual components intuitively makes sense; how often do you see a natural lifter with big arms and a tiny chest? The real big people you see are big all around. They may have some lacking bodyparts, but for the most part, humans grow relatively proportionally.

2. Progressive Overload

To induce supercompensation you need progressive overload. Simply, as your body gets stronger, you need to systematically add weight to the bar. There are a number of good training programs out there, lots of ways to skin a cat, but the key to success is in your organization! You need to keep track of exactly what you are doing (use a log, I like to use Moleskine logs, google 'em). Progressive overload is how you get stronger and bigger.


3. Programming

I suggest you buy a book called Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Mark Rippetoe is the guy who has put 40-lbs on novices, naturally, in 6 months.

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Stren.../dp/0976805405

That book covers how to squat, deadlift and press. It also will give you programming advice. I recommend it to all new lifters.

If you won't front the 30 bucks for the book, then I'd suggest doing something like this:

Monday:
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Chin-ups 3 sets to failure

Wednesday:
Light Squat 3x5 (-30% of Monday)
Deadlift 4x5
Military Press 4x5

Friday:
Squat 5x5
Incline Bench Press 5x5
Pull-ups 3 sets to failure

These weights should be pyramided relatively linearly. Example being:
Deadlift 5x135, 5x185, 5x235, 5x270

If you get all 5 reps of the last set without loosing form, then add +5# for the next week. That's THE KEY. So for this example the next wednesday you would put 275 on the bar and attempt 5 reps. Same goes for the other exercises. If you don't get 5, then stick with that weight for the next session. If progress stalls, then some change in programming or nutrition is needed.


I hope I was somewhat clear, let me know if you have any questions!

Oh, regarding nutrition, I'm not particularly qualified to give too much advice in that area, but I'll make a few notes:

1. If you want to put muscle mass on, you'll need a caloric excess. +300 to +500 calories will produce mostly lean gains for most people. If you have a fast metabolism you may need to add more though.

2. Take in at least a gram of protein per lb you weight. At least. Get good cheap protein at www.trueprotein.com , I've been buying ion-exchange from them since they opened. A lot of powerlifters buy from them due to their good prices and no-frill approach. With the amount of protein I ingest, buying at GNCs would get really expensive really fast (and the protein would be sub-par).

3. Build the house before you paint it. If you want to add mass, do it before you get lean. Bulk now, cut later. If you are already lean, this is a non-issue.

good post Noesis. Don't have much to add except that Starting strength is fantastic, so I'll second that advice. EDIT- I've been doing this program for the past few months: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

Originally Posted by Noesis

Click to expand...

I'm a weightlifter...

I'm thin... not model thin, but skinny enough (155lbs at 5'11). I don't think my body is the type that is built for strength - I'm probably better suited for mid-distance running/cycling (weak joints and past injuries prevent me from doing any activity for a long time). The last time I went on a work-out binge, I was at the gym 3x a week, bi/back, tri/chest, leg/shoulder/abs, and I was also cycling and running 2-3x a week on top of that. My goal was not to get ripped or bulk up to the point where my clothes no longer fit, but instead to work on strength and overall physique.

I made small gains as I went along... kept a progress chart, and near the end was benching around 135 for 3 sets at 6 reps, and squatting around 190. I know it's nothing great, but it was progress (though things did plateau near the end).

Now some Q's about the workout plan...

So, I start out with lower weights... about 50% of my max, and on my next set, do 60%, then 70%.... until I'm at 100% on my last set? What if I'm exhausted to do my last set? Would I change this next week so I do 40% and my previous 90% is my new 100%? e.g., if I can bench 130... but on my 4th set I fatigue when I'm at 110, and I can't make it to 130, for next week, should I build up to 110 instead? What is it about this that makes it better than me doing 3 sets 6 reps at 130 lbs?

Should one stick to those exercises, or add other ones... curls, dips, calf raises, tricep pulldowns, chest flys, rows...?

Thanks for the interesting first post!

Originally Posted by Ott

Click to expand...

good post Noesis. Don't have much to add except that Starting strength is fantastic, so I'll second that advice.

EDIT- I've been doing this program for the past few months:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

Thanks. Yeah, it's a great book.

That Madcow guy just quotes Glenn Pendlay, Mark Rippetoe and Bill Starr, but he add's his own "touch" (ie. Friday's tripple followed by a set of 8). I wouldn't use him as a source.

Programming isn't really an absolute and needs to be modified depending on the athlete and their goals, especially as he/she gets more advanced. Some constant that must be maintained is that the program should be focused around exercises that induce high muscle activation (deadlifts, cleans, squats, snatches, and so on), training should be full body and there must be a systematic way to make and map progress. Also, while pyramiding is great for beginners getting used to some volume, the majority find that sets across work better for intermediate and above lifters.

I like to see novice lifters start out with a 5x5 rep/set basis because it trains for power, but it should be said that there really isn't anything magical about 5x5, other rep/set schemes can be used with great success provided progressive overload is maintained.

If I get up and do this routine every weekday morning upon waking up 630 to 730 will I see notice able gains like from 280 to 220 by May 25th? Also with eating right and staying real active also in the afternoon?

10 mins Elliptical
10 mins Treadmill
10 mins Stationary Bike

5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Bench Press
5 x 5 Incline Bench
5 x 5 Decline Bench
5 x 5 Assisted Pullup

Originally Posted by Bandwagonesque

Click to expand...

I'm thin... not model thin, but skinny enough (155lbs at 5'11). I don't think my body is the type that is built for strength - I'm probably better suited for mid-distance running/cycling (weak joints and past injuries prevent me from doing any activity for a long time). The last time I went on a work-out binge, I was at the gym 3x a week, bi/back, tri/chest, leg/shoulder/abs, and I was also cycling and running 2-3x a week on top of that. My goal was not to get ripped or bulk up to the point where my clothes no longer fit, but instead to work on strength and overall physique.

I made small gains as I went along... kept a progress chart, and near the end was benching around 135 for 3 sets at 6 reps, and squatting around 190. I know it's nothing great, but it was progress (though things did plateau near the end).

Now some Q's about the workout plan...

So, I start out with lower weights... about 50% of my max, and on my next set, do 60%, then 70%.... until I'm at 100% on my last set? What if I'm exhausted to do my last set? Would I change this next week so I do 40% and my previous 90% is my new 100%? e.g., if I can bench 130... but on my 4th set I fatigue when I'm at 110, and I can't make it to 130, for next week, should I build up to 110 instead? What is it about this that makes it better than me doing 3 sets 6 reps at 130 lbs?

Should one stick to those exercises, or add other ones... curls, dips, calf raises, tricep pulldowns, chest flys, rows...?

Thanks for the interesting first post!

A lot of people feel that they aren't "built for strength," but the fact is you are not even close to your genetic potential and your not an athlete, so it doesn't really matter. I understand that you don't want to be a powerlifter, oly lifter or strongman. You just want to be healthy and look good, and that's great. I wish more of America did. But the way to train a beginning weightlifter vs. a model, is actually fairly similiar. Training a women is pretty much the same as a man also. Diet is really what changes your form. Powerlifters are going to eat everything in sight while adding mass, where a model is going to really be careful and only eat slightly over equilibrium.

Regarding pyramiding, you need to pyramid up so that your really stressed set is your last. The only place you should possibly miss a lift is on the final set, not on the previous ones. That's a matter of not setting the weights too high. Leave your ego at the door, weight is only a tool! If you fail a lift for the final set, then don't add weight next time and try and get it. If you still can't finish the final set of 5, then, yes, one way to approach that problem is to drop volume from the earlier sets.

As far as the exercises, stick to mostly compounds. Accessory movements may feel good, but aren't very effective. Adding extraneous accessory movements really hinders your recovery in what matters. When I hit a plateu, usually the first thing I do is drop the few accessory movements I actually do. As a beginner, you need accessory movements the least.

That program I listed as a guideline for you might not look like much on paper, but if you give it your all, you'll be absolutely DEAD leaving the gym. I've seen people puke from heavy compound lifting.

Really I don't do anything much different than what I recommended for tec-elf. Take a look:

Sets are straight across (not pyramided), warmups are added accordingly for each exercise in addition to a short treadmil warmup at the beginning.

Monday:
Squats 5x5
Bench 5x5
Pendlay Rows 5x5
Dips 2x10

Wednesday:
Deadlift 4x5
Military Press 4x10
Powershrugs 4x12
Straight Bar Curls 4x10

Friday:
Squats 5x5
Incline Bench 4x10
Pull-ups weighted
Rows 4x10

See, the basic idea is still there.

Originally Posted by Techno-Elf

Click to expand...

If I get up and do this routine every weekday morning upon waking up 630 to 730 will I see notice able gains like from 280 to 220 by May 25th? Also with eating right and staying real active also in the afternoon?

10 mins Elliptical
10 mins Treadmill
10 mins Stationary Bike

5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Bench Press
5 x 5 Incline Bench
5 x 5 Decline Bench
5 x 5 Assisted Pullup

No, I wouldn't recommend that at all. More isn't always better, finding a balance is what you need to do.

But like would I loose weight and eventally look good if i did that split? Or would it make me bigger??

You said you are 280-lbs and trying to loose weight, which needs to be done with a good diet and properly executed, quality, training program. I recommended a program that I believe is great for a novice, although at the time you didn't mention you were that heavy. At your weight, I think diet is going to be the biggest factor. I'd see a doctor before starting any exercise program to check your heart.

I think it's great your motivated to loose the weight!

My heart is fine I dont go to the doctor unless Im sick. I dont like physcials and havent had one since I was in 2ng grade and I dont plan on haveing one ever again, I just dont like them. Plus Im 18 my hearts fine.

Anyways I have a fdst motablism (sp) I have lost 15 lbs in a week and a half before but I wasnt eating hardly anyhting, but the point is that I can lose weight fast if I try.

So if I did this would I lose a good amount of weight:

If I get up and do this routine every weekday morning upon waking up 630 to 730 will I see notice able gains like from 280 to 220 by May 25th? Also with eating right and staying real active also in the afternoon?

10 mins Elliptical
10 mins Treadmill
10 mins Stationary Bike

5 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Bench Press
5 x 5 Incline Bench
5 x 5 Decline Bench
5 x 5 Assisted Pullup

He already told you that routine is a mess, and recommended you a better one a few posts up. Your's has wayy too much volume again, and a whole lot of unneccesary stuff (why 3 kinds of benchpress in one day?). If you deadlift and squat on the same day, and do them properly, then you'll be begging for mercy after those 2 excersizes alone. I cannot imagine trying to do 15 sets of bench press after that. also there'd be no way you could ever finish that routine in an hour unless you were using dinky weights. EDIT- wait I just noticed that you wanted to do a half hour of cardio and then that routine? Not possible. Seperate your cardio from your weight training as much as you can. It's only going to tire you out.