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[Whirling]



I actually didnt notice this the first roll through of your photos as I was focused on the toe shape.  The vamp of the right one in particular looks like something I would have returned, although I guess I would need to see it in person to make the final judgement.

Based on how I am reading what you have written, are you suggesting that it has something to do with this type of boot/last/shape?  Because my experience would suggest it has more to do with CXL.or just a less than ideal finished product.

I think it's related to the lasting process and the resilience or lack of it in the surface of the CXL. I was a bit on the fence about returning them, but decided I would see how they do...I think they will be fine...If they really displease me later, I will bypass the shop and reach out to Viberg regarding a replacement.

 

[rydenfan]



Ok...formal makeup

Side zip Chelsea
2050 last
Tan horsehide roughout
Natural midsole w/ flat welt
GYW construction
Dovetail heel
Leather sole

@LA Guy
Here is my makeup. I think we have 6 or so currently abd more on the way

 

[NYDRH]

I think it's related to the lasting process and the resilience or lack of it in the surface of the CXL. I was a bit on the fence about returning them, but decided I would see how they do...I think they will be fine...If they really displease me later, I will bypass the shop and reach out to Viberg regarding a replacement.

Got it, thanks.

I feel like CXL is very hit or miss in this way.

 

[budapest12]

I think it's related to the lasting process and the resilience or lack of it in the surface of the CXL. I was a bit on the fence about returning them, but decided I would see how they do...I think they will be fine...If they really displease me later, I will bypass the shop and reach out to Viberg regarding a replacement.

I don't understand -- you will keep wearing them until you decide you aren't in fact happy with them and then you will ask that Viberg replace them?

 

[Whirling]



I don't understand -- you will keep wearing them until you decide you aren't in fact happy with them and then you will ask that Viberg replace them?

No, that is not it, but thank you for assuming the worst about me, rather than just asking me to clarify what I meant.

After inspecting them carefully when I first got them and before even trying them on, I decided that they were acceptable, if not optimal. That decision means I do not feel entitled to a refund or replacement.

If, however, the CXL performs poorly with light wear or the marking became more pronounced in an unanticipated way, then I would feel that the quality was, in fact, not up to Viberg's usual high standards. I would not demand a replacement, nor would I feel entitled to one, but I would present Viberg some photos and ask how they felt about the situation. They know they are still gaining experience with whole-cut Chelseas. They might choose to go "above and beyond" by offering to replace them, or they might not, and I wouldn't press them to do so.

In any case, this is all very hypothetical, and I still am expecting they will break in nicely, and I will continue to enjoy them. I have not worn them much yet, but the CXL appears to be rather superior, actually, no "loose grain" that I can see, which ironically means that the markings aren't changing much in how noticeable they are. Again, though, I still like the boots and have every reason to expect I wil continue to do so.

I realize different people have different views on such things, but I feel it is okay to ask politely for things, even when one doesn't feel entitled to them, as long as one politely accepts "no" as an answer. I also firmly believe in forming relationships with the firms with which I do business. I act decently and honestly with them, and expect them to treat me similarly. I own a number of pairs of Vibergs and haven't ever returned one. I didn't even return the ones that were shown and described as stitch-down on Brooklyn Clothing's website, but arrived as GYW, but I did ask for and received a refund of the shipping charges that they would have had to pay had I returned them for a full refund (which they offered readily).

Not to be judgmental, but I am aware that there are some people who demand far too much from makers and retailers, and then get irate when they don't get it. I am no fan of that, I assure all of you. I am also incredibly negative about people who "showroom" with either brick and mortar shops or web retailers with easy free returns.

 

[budapest12]

No, that is not it, but thank you for assuming the worst about me, rather than just asking me to clarify what I meant.

After inspecting them carefully when I first got them and before even trying them on, I decided that they were acceptable, if not optimal. That decision means I do not feel entitled to a refund or replacement.

If, however, the CXL performs poorly with light wear or the marking became more pronounced in an unanticipated way, then I would feel that the quality was, in fact, not up to Viberg's usual high standards. I would not demand a replacement, nor would I feel entitled to one, but I would present Viberg some photos and ask how they felt about the situation. They know they are still gaining experience with whole-cut Chelseas. They might choose to go "above and beyond" by offering to replace them, or they might not, and I wouldn't press them to do so.

In any case, this is all very hypothetical, and I still am expecting they will break in nicely, and I will continue to enjoy them. I have not worn them much yet, but the CXL appears to be rather superior, actually, no "loose grain" that I can see, which ironically means that the markings aren't changing much in how noticeable they are. Again, though, I still like the boots and have every reason to expect I wil continue to do so.

I realize different people have different views on such things, but I feel it is okay to ask politely for things, even when one doesn't feel entitled to them, as long as one politely accepts "no" as an answer. I also firmly believe in forming relationships with the firms with which I do business. I act decently and honestly with them, and expect them to treat me similarly. I own a number of pairs of Vibergs and haven't ever returned one. I didn't even return the ones that were shown and described as stitch-down on Brooklyn Clothing's website, but arrived as GYW, but I did ask for and received a refund of the shipping charges that they would have had to pay had I returned them for a full refund (which they offered readily).

Not to be judgmental, but I am aware that there are some people who demand far too much from makers and retailers, and then get irate when they don't get it. I am no fan of that, I assure all of you. I am also incredibly negative about people who "showroom" with either brick and mortar shops or web retailers with easy free returns.

Well I don't assume the worst about you and in a sense I did ask you to clarify what you meant -- and I'm glad you did as what you say above makes sense.

 

[Joona]

@Whirling those markings look like toe tracks to me.

Brian the bootmaker explained toe tracks well at denimbro:

"The indentation you see on the boots is called a toe track. The reason a boot has a toe track is because the vamp went through the crimping process. It is used to get all the stretch out of the vamp because when a bootmaker needs to turn something that's 2D into 3D it is more work if the vamp is not crimped. Another benefit when a vamp is crimped is it keeps the vamp smooth without any wrinkles. The crimped vamp sits well on the shoelast.

There are different way to crimp a vamp. For example Buco puts their vamps into a crimp machine. It is a hot blade that folds the vamp in half and indents the leather. I wouldn't mind having a crimp machine (really expensive!) but I use crimp boards at the moment. It is the same process but more hands on. I last the vamp on a piece of board to get all the stretch out and it naturally gets the toe track."

Crimp machine:

Crimp board:

 

[LA Guy]

Okay, so that I don't get myself overly confused, this is what I have so far:

1) The Milwright
1940s Service Boot, 310 last
Crust CXL
Cap toe (brogue)
5 eyelets, antique brass
Cat's Paw heel, Vibram half sole
Stitched down/Nailed down
Natural midsole
Additioj: Heel lowered 1/8" (pending Viberg approval - no guarantees - voter agrees to purchase regardless of whether or not this is possoble).

2) Black short shift
- 110 Last
- Black oil tan
- Black roughout counter
- Silver hardware
- 90 degree blocked off heel (traveler heel)
- Brown edge dressing
- Structured toe or partially structured
- Open to Vibram 430 heel/sole or black wedge sole (either)

3) The black trench boot
Trench Boot.
2040 or 2045 last. (Blunter toe than the 1035, which I think suits the design better.)
Black bison leather.
Black hardware.
Stacked leather midsole.
Black full ripple sole

4) Fok's rambling thoughts: black bison scout boot on either the 110 or 1035 last (for a rounder toe), on a stacked leather midsole with a FULL ripple outsole. (I'll standardize this later_

5) @rydenfan boot
Side zip Chelsea
2050 last
Tan horsehide roughout
Natural midsole w/ flat welt
GYW construction
Dovetail heel
Leather sole

6) The other boot (regular chelsea with side gores)
Chelsea
2050 last
Black horsehide roughout/black suede if available
Black midsole w/ flat welt
GYW construction
Dovetail heel
Black Leather sole

7) @NYDRH 's city boot
Side Zip Chelsea Boot
Black Horsehide (grain side)
Leather Sole
Antique Brown Edge (See the mock up of the RM Williams Chelsea for how this should look, I could be fine with black too)
Black Zipper
Tonal Stitching
GYW - Flat

8) BlackStallion: 6" SCOUT in Black HorseHide X Reversed [RO] heel counter & backstay & eyeletstay[???]
• 1035 last
• Flat GYW
• 6" shaft :: NO pull loops [plain/flat backstay]
• 8 Gunmetal eyelets
• Partially structured toe
• Black Stitch all around, including on welt

Leather stacked midsole (if can't do the dyeing, are you guys still for this/?)

9) Someone needs to put this in a standard form:
A Scout or Service boot on the 110 with the same RO, black gloxi or Vibram 2021, natural midsole and gunmetal eyelets as on the rough out derby picture would be a dreamboot. I'm down for that.

Am I missing something or putting something in there twice? We'll cut these down to maybe 6, and make 3.

Cheers,

Fok.

 

[patrick_b]



@Whirling
 those markings look like toe tracks to me.

Brian the bootmaker explained toe tracks well at denimbro: 

"The indentation you see on the boots is called a toe track. The reason a boot has a toe track is because the vamp went through the crimping process. It is used to get all the stretch out of the vamp because when a bootmaker needs to turn something that's 2D into 3D it is more work if the vamp is not crimped. Another benefit when a vamp is crimped is it keeps the vamp smooth without any wrinkles. The crimped vamp sits well on the shoelast. 


There are different way to crimp a vamp. For example Buco puts their vamps into a crimp machine. It is a hot blade that folds the vamp in half and indents the leather. I wouldn't mind having a crimp machine (really expensive!) but I use crimp boards at the moment. It is the same process but more hands on. I last the vamp on a piece of board to get all the stretch out and it naturally gets the toe track."

Interesting. RM Williams chelseas commonly had those marks. Always wondered what they were. Thanks for sharing the info.

They show up well on this suede example I grabbed from the RMW thread.

 

[Whirling]



@Whirling those markings look like toe tracks to me. Brian the bootmaker explained toe tracks well at denimbro: "The indentation you see on the boots is called a toe track. The reason a boot has a toe track is because the vamp went through the crimping process. It is used to get all the stretch out of the vamp because when a bootmaker needs to turn something that's 2D into 3D it is more work if the vamp is not crimped. Another benefit when a vamp is crimped is it keeps the vamp smooth without any wrinkles. The crimped vamp sits well on the shoelast. There are different way to crimp a vamp. For example Buco puts their vamps into a crimp machine. It is a hot blade that folds the vamp in half and indents the leather. I wouldn't mind having a crimp machine (really expensive!) but I use crimp boards at the moment. It is the same process but more hands on. I last the vamp on a piece of board to get all the stretch out and it naturally gets the toe track." Crimp machine: Crimp board: [COLOR=FF8400] [/COLOR]

I worry that I am going to begin to sound ridiculous, but the toe tracks weren't the marks that disturbed me. It was the rough patch on the vamp of the one boot, a ridge around the toe of the other, and (not shown) a curved rectangular faint indentation from some sort of clamp... Because I have owned RM Williams, I wasn't put off by the toe tracks. The toe tracks also show up in the photos on the Blue Button Shop website, so all the more reason I wouldn't be worked up over that... But still, I am basically happy with the boots. If one wants hyper-clean finishing and aesthetics, Viberg is not the best choice in the $500-$1,000 tier. I would definitely pick some Italian or British offering instead. Vibergs, however, have something so pleasing and solid about them--and they are casual footwear, with work boot roots, so all the more reason not to compare them to European dress boots.

 

[NYDRH]

I worry that I am going to begin to sound ridiculous, but the toe tracks weren't the marks that disturbed me. It was the rough patch on the vamp of the one boot, a ridge around the toe of the other, and (not shown) a curved rectangular faint indentation from some sort of clamp...

Because I have owned RM Williams, I wasn't put off by the toe tracks. The toe tracks also show up in the photos on the Blue Button Shop website, so all the more reason I wouldn't be worked up over that...

But still, I am basically happy with the boots. If one wants hyper-clean finishing and aesthetics, Viberg is not the best choice in the $500-$1,000 tier. I would definitely pick some Italian or British offering instead. Vibergs, however, have something so pleasing and solid about them--and they are casual footwear, with work boot roots, so all the more reason not to compare them to European dress boots.

I knew what you meant, dont think it's ridiculous. While I dont expect the finishing to be in the realm of G&G or EG, I would be bothered by the vamp.

This is the pic that bothered me:

 

[Whirling]



I knew what you meant, dont think it's ridiculous. While I dont expect the finishing to be in the realm of G&G or EG, I would be bothered by the vamp. This is the pic that bothered me:

Yeah, that is the worst of it. I guess I will see how it goes. I will try to post some pics after I have worn them a few times.

 

[pema]

It seems that there are many black scout boots with very similar details. We will need to come together to make this happen. I am flexible on most everything, would probably prefer rough out, but will get on board either way. The only thing I can't do is the 1035, as it doesn't fit me. Can we start making compromises to get together on a black scout? I am very partial to the 110, as it is the only last comfortable for me. Would you be interested in your design with a black gloxi sole, Fok?

 

[LA Guy]

It seems that there are many black scout boots with very similar details. We will need to come together to make this happen. I am flexible on most everything, would probably prefer rough out, but will get on board either way. The only thing I can't do is the 1035, as it doesn't fit me. Can we start making compromises to get together on a black scout? I am very partial to the 110, as it is the only last comfortable for me. Would you be interested in your design with a black gloxi sole, Fok?

Sure. I mean, I just throw these things out there. That said, a gloxi sole would probably look wierd with a stacked leather midsole, and having that painted with black edgepaint would seem to make very little sense.

 

[Fenderplyr]

How is the sizing on the 2005 last for engineers? I'm usually a US 10 in boots from OSB to RRL etc