Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[TheSuitBurnsBetter]

Thank you all. I had a look at Heritage Twist today, and it's lovely, but just a little too 'tweedy' for the City. I like the fuzziness, but it's not quite sharp enough.
So given my desire for the 'contrast'/depth, i think it's between:

Harrison's Oyster (13oz)
View attachment 2285013
And Standeven's British Classic (12oz), which i don't think has been mentioned yet.
View attachment 2285015

I'm erring towards the latter, and would really like to get my order in today!
Could members let me know their thoughts on these two pls?
Thank you vm indeed.

Sorry to throw another contender in the ring, but have you looked at Drapers Superbio?

Drapes beautifully and not scratchy or coarse at all.

 

[corpseposeur]

Thank you all. I had a look at Heritage Twist today, and it's lovely, but just a little too 'tweedy' for the City. I like the fuzziness, but it's not quite sharp enough.
So given my desire for the 'contrast'/depth, i think it's between:

Harrison's Oyster (13oz)
View attachment 2285013
And Standeven's British Classic (12oz), which i don't think has been mentioned yet.
View attachment 2285015

I'm erring towards the latter, and would really like to get my order in today!
Could members let me know their thoughts on these two pls?
Thank you vm indeed.

What I like most about Heritage Twist is that it's basically cloth that used to be pretty standard back in the 1950s...I remember by grandfather had tailored clothing in similar material. I particularly like some of the striped cloths.

They are definitely unique but conservative enough and appropriate for city wear. As someone who works in financial services, I'd have no issue wearing it to a business meeting in New York. But if you're going with herringbone, it's really up to what feels nicer to you.

If you want something really polished and luxurious, go for H. Lesser's 13oz or a Huddersfield QZ2 or QX2. My tailor likes those for business suits, but I prefer cloth with more body and less "shine".

 

[multiccy-csa]

Sorry to throw another contender in the ring, but have you looked at Drapers Superbio?
View attachment 2285171 View attachment 2285173
Drapes beautifully and not scratchy or coarse at all.

Hmmm this is a problem. That looks fantastic, thank you.
But I'd say it is perhaps a shade or two light for me..I'd call that a dark grey rather than charcoal.
Do they do a darker shade? And what weight is it? And any other pros/cons of it?

 

[TheSuitBurnsBetter]

Hmmm this is a problem. That looks fantastic, thank you.
But I'd say it is perhaps a shade or two light for me..I'd call that a dark grey rather than charcoal.
Do they do a darker shade? And what weight is it? And any other pros/cons of it?

This is 65133, which is a touch darker in real life than in the photo. But there's also one shade darker. It's 13oz, holds a crease well, is soft but springy (so holds it shape). Honestly can't think of anything I don't like about it. It's a matter of preference though, some people may prefer a "harder" finish.

 

[mktitsworth]

Hmmm this is a problem. That looks fantastic, thank you.
But I'd say it is perhaps a shade or two light for me..I'd call that a dark grey rather than charcoal.
Do they do a darker shade? And what weight is it? And any other pros/cons of it?

Drapers sells direct to the public. I've bought jacket and suit lengths directly from them. Here is their collection of grey herringbones.

 

[JHWilliams]

Hmmm this is a problem. That looks fantastic, thank you.
But I'd say it is perhaps a shade or two light for me..I'd call that a dark grey rather than charcoal.
Do they do a darker shade? And what weight is it? And any other pros/cons of it?

Superbio (Formerly Five Star) was VBC’s strongest attempt at mimicking English cloth.

You know that English cloth is something very special when you have Italian mills trying to replicate it. Unfortunately, Italy doesn’t have mother’s nature’s secret ingredient: the soft water from the Pennines.

 

[Concordia]

Thank you all. I had a look at Heritage Twist today, and it's lovely, but just a little too 'tweedy' for the City. I like the fuzziness, but it's not quite sharp enough.
So given my desire for the 'contrast'/depth, i think it's between:

Harrison's Oyster (13oz)
View attachment 2285013
And Standeven's British Classic (12oz), which i don't think has been mentioned yet.
View attachment 2285015

I'm erring towards the latter, and would really like to get my order in today!
Could members let me know their thoughts on these two pls?
Thank you vm indeed.

Oyster is a sort of go-to if you want something just a bit less urban than Lesser 13.

If you like the fuzziness and don't want too tweedy an expression, have you thought of Fox Worsted Classics? 12oz, but slightly milled if not quite like flannel.

Worsted Classics

Introducing Worsted Classics for classic occasions, with the cutters’ favourite ‘London Shrunk’ finish. The wardrobe staple woven for business, travel & leisure, including evening and wedding wear. This bunch contains twills, hopsacks and baratheas, along with several shades of plain weaves.

foxflannel.com

 

[jonathanS]

Oyster is a sort of go-to if you want something just a bit less urban than Lesser 13.

If you like the fuzziness and don't want too tweedy an expression, have you thought of Fox Worsted Classics? 12oz, but slightly milled if not quite like flannel.

Worsted Classics

Introducing Worsted Classics for classic occasions, with the cutters’ favourite ‘London Shrunk’ finish. The wardrobe staple woven for business, travel & leisure, including evening and wedding wear. This bunch contains twills, hopsacks and baratheas, along with several shades of plain weaves.

foxflannel.com

Am I the only one who thinks fox has gotten out of control expensive?

 

[multiccy-csa]

This is 65133, which is a touch darker in real life than in the photo. But there's also one shade darker. It's 13oz, holds a crease well, is soft but springy (so holds it shape). Honestly can't think of anything I don't like about it. It's a matter of preference though, some people may prefer a "harder" finish.

I walked in to the shop and pretty much instantly pulled the trigger (on Drapers, one shade darker than yours, 65134).

The shade is v similar to the Standeven and Oyster, but much softer and has great depth.
It cost me a bit more, but I'm hopeful it will be worth it.
Thank you for the shout!

 

[Concordia]

Am I the only one who thinks fox has gotten out of control expensive?

Nope. But a lot of this is Fox's discovering a retail market created by fora like this one. Tailoring has also gone to the moon, though. Or, even if the same in real dollars, is finally telling us why our parents thought it was a needless extravagance.

 

[JHWilliams]

Am I the only one who thinks fox has gotten out of control expensive?

Only to those who are not in the trade.

 

[Concordia]

I'd call that a dark grey rather than charcoal.

Interesting variations of language. In the US, charcoal is indeed pretty dark-- nearly black. For when the briquets come right out of the bag.

In the UK, that shade is often Oxford grey, or sometimes dark grey. When they go that way, charcoal is a half-shade lighter. When it's warm and almost ready to receive the steaks.

I had some peculiar discussions trying to get a tailor to send me the grey I was looking for.

 

[single_origin]

Any suggestions on where to shop for fabric (either for jackets or shirts) in Florence and Naples?

 

[hitsuji]

Am I the only one who thinks fox has gotten out of control expensive?

In the UK, Retail wise they are quite similar to the other merchants that openly sell to Retail customers: Pepper lee (standeven) and Dugdale to name a few.

Marketing wise I think Fox have really hit the mark and their design team is top notch. Have been quite the fan of a few of their fox drops.

They have a cult following across the world too especially in Asia.

Trade wise they’re quite similar.
Example: Fox Flannels = Stonedale flannel (standeven) in price

I think the market for the standard city worsted is priced similarly across the board apart from H lesser

 

[classicalthunde]

In the UK, Retail wise they are quite similar to the other merchants that openly sell to Retail customers: Pepper lee (standeven) and Dugdale to name a few.

I've seen the trade price sheet for one of the major merchant/mills mentioned here and the trade pricing is roughly 50% of the listed retail price. Retail Fox pricing is just a non-starter for me no matter how much I like their colors/patterns...the list price would run me $600usd for a jacket or $1200usd for a suit in fabric alone

I basically use the price list I receive as a base guideline and if buying on the 'retail' side is more than ~20% higher than the trade price for a roughly equivalent cloth I just pass...I don't see any sense in paying 2x for the same product.

edit: I toyed with the idea of doing a camel hair polo coat in late 2020/early 2021 and just checked my notes...the Snowdonia camel hair pricing was 180gbp and it is now 360gbp. For the life of me, I can't think of how the cost to produce would have risen 2x in less than 4 years.