The official CELINE thread

[Louis Louis]

The targets are indeed very different. The challenge was to start from scratch Celine for Men. There are high ROI expectations and it may be difficult for H. Slimane to settle Celine while SLP is still cashing on his name and designs. Example here, below we have a Celine and a SLP jacket. Same ribbed waistband design...

 

[zonobrah]

After debating between the Celine boots and the YSL, I went with the YSL.

Celine with Slimane are killing it honestly but I just loved the iconic YSL way more, even though the Celine were actually more comfy

 

[thorns]

The amount of fanboyism...

LOL, this is the truth. Zara and other high street brands live off of copying Hedi. Eventually, they will be copying Hedi's Celine looks (as if they haven't already). Normies will buy it, and then it will be considered cool to try out another silhouette instead of skinny jeans. That's just how it goes. History will repeat itself. It did at Dior Homme and at Saint Laurent. Why wouldn't it continue at Celine. The amount of hate towards Hedi is unreal. Just look back at the drama the fashion critics started when Hedi "dropped" Yves from their ready-to-wear line. I can't tell whether they were ignorant, or if they purposefully tried to paint a narrative, based on lies, to destroy Hedi's credibility. Both are damning. Many people who hate on Hedi do it because the critics hate on Hedi. A sheep echos back what they read from "fashion authorities" as fact and regurgitate it without applying some critical thinking. Critics are thinking that their voice still matters...when in reality they don't anymore. They condemned Hedi's Saint Laurent and surprise surprise. They're just out of touch with what society wants. If to speak positively is to be a fanboy, that speaks volumes about the current climate of the narrative that is acceptable when talking about Hedi.

As someone who has definitely drifted away from Hedi, I actually think he's making a good point. The LA-inspired SLP look is more accessible to the average guy, you get to look edgy, fashionable and cool without getting any weird looks, the most off-putting thing is a man wearing 40mm heels which is basically nothing. Celine's aesthetic is more committed, more fashioney and less """"normal."""" It's easier to sell trashed denim and flannels than it is to sell wider trousers and tailoring, which appears to be Celine's bigger focus.

Agree 100%. I keep up with Hedi nowadays mainly just to be informed and see what I can fit into my style spectrum without losing what I have built in my wardrobe. Hedi's Celine has made me realize that I lack more "formal"/"educated" clothes in my style spectrum. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm personally pretty committed to the 2013 era. What I personally really like from Celine is:

Spoiler: 1) wearing shirts+ties with casual jackets

Spoiler: 2) dark academia/edgy private school boy

"The world hasn't caught up to Hedi" definitely is a little bit worshippy, but I think overall the sentiment that Hedi's new look is less in-line with what the average person is willing to buy is fairly accurate.

I'd say in a couple of years more guys will be rocking early season Celine silhouettes. History will repeat itself. I'm not sure where I stand exactly knowing this. I think I just prefer the slimmer looks (even Hedi hasn't been abandoning that himself). Easier to figure out what you like in Hedi's oeuvre and then committing to it than constantly wanting to be on the cutting edge of fashion.

 

[Bill H]

LOL, this is the truth. Zara and other high street brands live off of copying Hedi. Eventually, they will be copying Hedi's Celine looks (as if they haven't already). Normies will buy it, and then it will be considered cool to try out another silhouette instead of skinny jeans. That's just how it goes. History will repeat itself. It did at Dior Homme and at Saint Laurent. Why wouldn't it continue at Celine. The amount of hate towards Hedi is unreal. Just look back at the drama the fashion critics started when Hedi "dropped" Yves from their ready-to-wear line. I can't tell whether they were ignorant, or if they purposefully tried to paint a narrative, based on lies, to destroy Hedi's credibility. Both are damning. Many people who hate on Hedi do it because the critics hate on Hedi. A sheep echos back what they read from "fashion authorities" as fact and regurgitate it without applying some critical thinking. Critics are thinking that their voice still matters...when in reality they don't anymore. They condemned Hedi's Saint Laurent and surprise surprise. They're just out of touch with what society wants. If to speak positively is to be a fanboy, that speaks volumes about the current climate of the narrative that is acceptable when talking about Hedi.



Agree 100%. I keep up with Hedi nowadays mainly just to be informed and see what I can fit into my style spectrum without losing what I have built in my wardrobe. Hedi's Celine has made me realize that I lack more "formal"/"educated" clothes in my style spectrum. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm personally pretty committed to the 2013 era. What I personally really like from Celine is:

Spoiler: 1) wearing shirts+ties with casual jackets

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Spoiler: 2) dark academia/edgy private school boy

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I'd say in a couple of years more guys will be rocking early season Celine silhouettes. History will repeat itself. I'm not sure where I stand exactly knowing this. I think I just prefer the slimmer looks (even Hedi hasn't been abandoning that himself). Easier to figure out what you like in Hedi's oeuvre and then committing to it than constantly wanting to be on the cutting edge of fashion.

Nice!!! I hope so; I dug the the 70s show

 

[bbconair]

There is also something to be said about the physique and lifestyle of the average Phoebe fan vs. the average Hedi fan which adds to the alienation.

can you expand on your last paragraph lol.

 

[SirGrotius]

can you expand on your last paragraph lol.

Ha, that struck me too! I was guessing the average Phoebe fan is slim and wealthy, whereas the average Hedi fan is skinny and nouveau riche? Not sure though. Totally different aesthetics in a lot of ways, although I do get the sense that Hedi's Celine is a bit more muted than the palette he followed at SLP. Maybe it's simply the white versus black box though!

 

[formermember110224]

I'll try and post a fit pic once the jeans are back from being tailored (again).

So I finally got my flares back from being tailored (done in store) and I couldn't be happier with the fit!

 

[merkwurdigliebe]

can you expand on your last paragraph lol.

Ha, that struck me too! I was guessing the average Phoebe fan is slim and wealthy, whereas the average Hedi fan is skinny and nouveau riche? Not sure though. Totally different aesthetics in a lot of ways, although I do get the sense that Hedi's Celine is a bit more muted than the palette he followed at SLP. Maybe it's simply the white versus black box though!

From what I've seen, the average Phoebe fan is older than the average Hedi fan, meaning they (usually) have different lifestyles in terms of their careers and how they spend their free time.

As for the physique part, I find that many people who wear a lot oversized tops and outerwear (Phoebe's Celine) do so out of laziness and the "comfy" cope, and/or in an effort to hide their out-of-shape bodies. Hedi's slim and skinny silhouettes do not work on out-of-shape people, obviously, and definitely would not be considered "comfy" by the general public.

I live in the US, so this may not hold true if you live elsewhere. It is just what I've personally observed.

 

[thorns]

So I finally got my flares back from being tailored (done in store) and I couldn't be happier with the fit!

Pointy toe footwear looks good with flares.

 

[thorns]

From what I've seen, the average Phoebe fan is older than the average Hedi fan, meaning they (usually) have different lifestyles in terms of their careers and how they spend their free time.

As for the physique part, I find that many people who wear a lot oversized tops and outerwear (Phoebe's Celine) do so out of laziness and the "comfy" cope, and/or in an effort to hide their out-of-shape bodies. Hedi's slim and skinny silhouettes do not work on out-of-shape people, obviously, and definitely would not be considered "comfy" by the general public.

I live in the US, so this may not hold true if you live elsewhere. It is just what I've personally observed.

I'm pretty ignorant about pre-Hedi Céline...but how often did people buy the clothing? I was under the impression it was mostly the leather accessories that sold. I took a quick glance at footwear and clothing and a lot of it felt unflattering and extreme.

 

[merkwurdigliebe]

I'm pretty ignorant about pre-Hedi Céline...but how often did people buy the clothing? I was under the impression it was mostly the leather accessories that sold. I took a quick glance at footwear and clothing and a lot of it felt unflattering and extreme.

Phoebe had a following much like Hedi's. Kanye West would even buy and wear some of her shirts/blouses for performances.

 

[Bill H]

Pointy toe footwear looks good with flares.

Yo building on this point, I have a pair of black whipstitch python santiags, and they are great,... but I absoltuely cannot style them and it is driving me nuts. Thoughts?

 

[Fred-JettRink]

Phoebe Philos Céline was extremely influencial, you couldn't toss a stone at my university for a few years without hitting a girl in pastelly sneakers with an oversized grey A-shape coat. H&M basically built their more pricey &otherstories stuff completely on Céline copies. Hedis Celine is no different though, have you guys seen the Massimo Dutti (Zara) and Mango womens collections this winter?

 

[GG Allin]

I could be totally wrong about this, but it feels to me like Hedi is trying to split the difference between Phoebe Philo's Celine aesthetic and the one that he had previously "developed" (a neutral term for those who think his work is unoriginal). This is understandable, since it'd be a really violent gesture to just turn this brand into one devoted to the rocker look, and its various offshoots. People would freak out about that.

The problem, it seems to me, is that this no-man's land between Phoebe Philo's aesthetic and his previous rocker one is lacking cultural referents that most people will be into. Hence the inscrutability of the first two seasons, and arguably the 70's infused one as well--although, a ton of brands seem to be going in this direction.

I don't think fast fashion brands are going to rip-off his aesthetic from the first two seasons, given the low demand for it--but I could see that happening to this latest one, given that even really ****** brands like Off-white are putting out flared trousers now.

 

[thorns]

Yo building on this point, I have a pair of black whipstitch python santiags, and they are great,... but I absoltuely cannot style them and it is driving me nuts. Thoughts?

Try slim bootcut jeans. Black would be preferable for a more edgy vibe. Have the thighs be tight for a more modern vibe.

Phoebe Philos Céline was extremely influencial, you couldn't toss a stone at my university for a few years without hitting a girl in pastelly sneakers with an oversized grey A-shape coat. H&M basically built their more pricey &otherstories stuff completely on Céline copies. Hedis Celine is no different though, have you guys seen the Massimo Dutti (Zara) and Mango womens collections this winter?

Yeah, they were fast on their uptake on Hedi's women's fw19 Celine.

I could be totally wrong about this, but it feels to me like Hedi is trying to split the difference between Phoebe Philo's Celine aesthetic and the one that he had previously "developed" (a neutral term for those who think his work is unoriginal). This is understandable, since it'd be a really violent gesture to just turn this brand into one devoted to the rocker look, and its various offshoots. People would freak out about that.

The problem, it seems to me, is that this no-man's land between Phoebe Philo's aesthetic and his previous rocker one is lacking cultural referents that most people will be into. Hence the inscrutability of the first two seasons, and arguably the 70's infused one as well--although, a ton of brands seem to be going in this direction.

I don't think Hedi is really that focused on Phoebe's Céline. Her vision felt very experimental when looking at her most recent seasons. Here is Hedi's template for success, creative director's edition.

1. Visit archives of house to learn its history
2. Decide on the overarching story he wants for the brand
3. Insert obscure brand history into details of items
4. For each season, decide on which past musical genre to be inspired by
5. Modernize the past so that it becomes accessible
6. Dress indie musicians in pieces to give his work some authenticity because it is glorified cosplay

People think that Hedi was "forced by critics" to do fw19 because of the backlash from ss19...but in reality fw19 was planned well in advance. My theory about ss19 was that, ignoring the females in suits like the male counterparts, it was for the red carpet. All those dresses that were criticized ended up being the pieces that they had celebrities decked out in for events. It is just unusual to have women on the red carpet dressed in fw19 as it is too casual. But this is just my theory.

Part of the reason why people aren't as into Hedi's vision for Celine is because it is much more educated and French. He's been inserting hints of it if people are perceptive. This wasn't what they signed up for when they were first interested in Hedi from the Saint Laurent days. For example, Marilyn Manson was an appropriate icon for Hedi's vision of Saint Laurent. He is in no way appropriate for Hedi's vision of Celine. There's been a heavy emphasis on ties for Celine for ss19 and fw19. The beginning is always going to set the expectation of what people have for the brand. ss19 and fw19 are likely to be closest to the core vision of Hedi's Celine.

Sorbonne collar is a reference to the Sorbonne University in Paris:

Celine university sweater:

It almost appears as if the "flagship" model footwear is the single monk strap Jacno shoe:

Spoiler: To be honest, it feels surprisingly versatile:

However, I don't think most people attracted to Hedi's Saint Laurent is ready to want to wear monk strap dress shoes. Another shoe that they're pushing hard at Celine are the loafers. Hedi tried to push loafers at Saint Laurent during ss13, but it seems like they abandoned loafers quite quickly.

I don't think fast fashion brands are going to rip-off his aesthetic from the first two seasons, given the low demand for it--but I could see that happening to this latest one, given that even really ****** brands like Off-white are putting out flared trousers now.

Haven't been keeping up to date on the men's side of fast fashion, but the women's side are already ripping Hedi's fw19. Men are usually more conservative, so I expect it to take some time.