spanish shoe brands

[Galix]

@SartodiNapoli I've been reading your posts the last few years and in general I agree with many of your points. But I think you should calm down a little bit. Lately all your posts are very aggressive and in cases like in this post, not even called for.
I have no clue who this Aristocrata is, and the only times I have heard about him is from you. It seems that you just have to mention him whenever you have the opportunity. The best way to demonstrate that he is not a relevant person in the sartorial world is to simply ignore him.
I really appreciate when you give us constructive critique and we can actually learn something.

 

[SartodiNapoli]



1.-I do not know personally who is the Aristocrata you are mentioning all the time .  But it seems you have a big problem with him. Talk to him then.
2.-This is a thread about shoes and I have no idea about tayloring (cause I am not interested in).  I am very glad you are a master/expert in that field and you must be very happy that everyones in the world knows that.
3.- A real master/proffessional  in any proffession respects the others companions .  I wonder what kind of proffesional you are.  

Vilalta deserves respect just like any other master and I am pretty sure your close friend Silvano Lattanzi  would love to meet him and talk about shoes with him and share techniques.

I believe you need to learn more about humility and respect to others.

I won't answer to personal attacks from one who says twice i got no idea or humildty twice, while ihave dismantleded all his points but yet continues with the same.

Spanish bloggers are all same, think they know everything but is obvious what they know...

When i said the truth, that you can get by 3 times less money the real thing from real reputed shoemakers than paying 2000e for those monstruosities, he said i got no idea as he can't handle the truth. The usual story.
About respect, how any who insults me and the truth can ask about a respect he is not respecting?

That is very curious and funny.

Is respecting the clientele i do respect and help from overpaying,one who ask 2000e for something that looks 20e?

3,i know personally most of the best shoemakers in the world, English, Italians and Japanese, no one on the good list os Spaniard( even Villalta seems Argentinian who happens to live in Spain) and also i deeply doubt they would meet such " shoemaker".

You are free to believe the contrary fantasy,but i hear daily their comments about Carmina,who sold a poor defective pair with the worst ever leather to me years ago, and the rest of the Spanish imitators you seem to like and promote. Not my fault. I worked and born on a huge shoe factory and know what you ignore but hype.

No Spaniard can or will ever reach the Italian quality, specially that list ones.( who most are done in Mexico or China but tagged close to real Made in Italy) if you ever know that, that i again, doubt. Is that "respect" for the clientele i help to stay away from poor products and hypes?

Imitating all the Bologne designs or even trying to get the same designers is the daily mock on the real Italian factories.

Resume, asking more money for a Seat than a Maserati, and wanting to be "respected" for it while unrespecting the one who exposes. Curious.




The other poster is right, thanks for the remind.

 

[Verrihappy]

Sarto is the official blog-buster here,exposing all the scams, shills and shite.

 

[laufer]



Now, rate this ugly monstruosity commisioned by him to Villalta( i pass to comment on the Ronald McDonald unapropiate socks)and compare to a real shoe from Naples or Bologne, who as i said, do not cost 2000euros as this aberration( who also seems a 20e Spanish mall rtw shoe) but on some cases, 3 times less, who do you say got no idea about? If i email this to  per example, my friend Silvano Lattanzi, the laughs are going to sound even on Mars.

No it will not, the voice cannot travel in outer space.

 

[ThunderMarch]

Sarto,
First off, I'd like to say that I acknowledge the good intentions that you have. You despise crooks and con-men, and you dislike people having to overpay for things that you deem, are scams, or by your standards, are of poor quality.
Yes, there are many shill bloggers. And yes, there are many con-artists.
Also, yes, that pair of shoes highlighted in your earlier post do look rather atrocious.
To be quite frank and honest, I am quite a fan of your posts, them being highly entertaining for one, and also undoubtedly authentic and unmistakable, for another. You add quite a dimension to largely mundane and boring threads, sometimes.

But I'll say this.

Part A:
Apart from the pair highlighted, Vilalta does make some nice shoes. Also, I am assuming that pair you highlighted is bespoke.
Which means that:
1) 2000 Euros is not an unreasonablen price for a pair of bespoke shoes
2) Being bespoke shoes, the client will have full autonomy of what design / color he wants the shoe to be. The shoe may have seemed atrocious in design to Vilalta as well, but he would have no choice but to give the customer what he wants.

Part B:
I do agree that the English and Italians make good shoes. However I disagree with what you say about Spanish makers, Carmina specifically. I'm sure it's not just me, but there are many others on SF who attest to their quality. You might have gotten a pair that you found not fantastic. But I feel they deliver a lot for what you actually pay. I respect them highly as a maker. And I hope you give them a second chance. Your comments here, might have been slightly harsh.

Do keep an mind Sarto, as I am sure many here, also keep an open mind when reading your posts. I wish you well.

Might I also add that I think your ties are very nicely done, and I am most likely getting some from you.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Sarto,
First off, I'd like to say that I acknowledge the good intentions that you have. You despise crooks and con-men, and you dislike people having to overpay for things that you deem, are scams, or by your standards, are of poor quality.
Yes, there are many shill bloggers. And yes, there are many con-artists.
Also, yes, that pair of shoes highlighted in your earlier post do look rather atrocious.
To be quite frank and honest, I am quite a fan of your posts, them being highly entertaining for one, and also undoubtedly authentic and unmistakable, for another. You add quite a dimension to largely mundane and boring threads, sometimes.

But I'll say this.

Part A:
Apart from the pair highlighted, Vilalta does make some nice shoes. Also, I am assuming that pair you highlighted is bespoke.
Which means that:
1) 2000 Euros is not an unreasonablen price for a pair of bespoke shoes
2) Being bespoke shoes, the client will have full autonomy of what design / color he wants the shoe to be. The shoe may have seemed atrocious in design to Vilalta as well, but he would have no choice but to give the customer what he wants.

Part B:
I do agree that the English and Italians make good shoes. However I disagree with what you say about Spanish makers, Carmina specifically. I'm sure it's not just me, but there are many others on SF who attest to their quality. You might have gotten a pair that you found not fantastic. But I feel they deliver a lot for what you actually pay. I respect them highly as a maker. And I hope you give them a second chance. Your comments here, might have been slightly harsh.

Do keep an mind Sarto, as I am sure many here, also keep an open mind when reading your posts. I wish you well.

Might I also add that I think your ties are very nicely done, and I am most likely getting some from you.

Hi, thanks for your words, but let me answer something without trying to be feather on the same subject.

1 and 2,

As i said on my first answer and was insulted by the Spanish poster with the surreal answer as “ I got no idea or i was unrespecting” .

Unrespecting a person who charges as i said, on this case more than three times more than per example some real Italian ones for a unbeteable pair of real Italian shoes?

Also, but this is my personal ethics, as well as the ones of my Neapolitan grandmasters, we do not accept commisions for what is an attempt to classic style or what is a total aesthetic aberration, ( example this shoes i expossed, curiously commisioned by a blogger and “ expert" or the horrible “ suits” pittiesque etc, or my case, per example, an orange big flannel big check shirt with the fabric rotated so the checks show diagonal), but those are the rules of just me and my masters, he or the others do live on a free world and can do whatever they want, of course.

But as i believe on the free market, every one is free to charge what he wants, as well as i am free to give me opinion. What others aren´t free are to insult me saying “ i got no idea", or insult the thruth they can´t digest, as on this Zapasman.

Also, Spanish “ arthisans”, the ones who selfsay are the best in the world, who actually are simply the worst ever, do abuse of the fact that are a monopole of a few ones, so they can ask mad prices as 3000e for a defective poorly sewn and bad fitted suit ( than on Italy won´t be accepted by any customer even for 400) with 20 euros/meter fabrics as Gorina, 255 for a poor defective shirt as Burgos that are the laughs of the Italian shirt industry, on literally 3 euros a meter fabric and crooked pattern and even the machinemade is twisted( Even on 1 euro bazars, the shirts are perfectly sewn instead), or 2000 for this shoes, while on Italy with those prices and bad quality, won´t be opened more than a single week, and they know it, but they allegedly pay bloggers to hype them with lies to fool innocent well hearthed customers.

About Carmina,

Again, there is a very modern and corrupted European law, that goes against the consumer rights, hence lets a garment made outside of the European Union tagged as Made in Italy, Uk, Spain etc, if a barely 0,0001% as per example lacing the laces of a Chinesse pair of shoes inside the EU. ( I wonder how many millions got as bribe the ones who voted yes to this law).

This is not only a fraud, a fooling but an attemp to what was very high quality before the mid 90´s as Made in UK, made in Spain or the best of all, Made in Italy.

There is the rumour that Carmina are made in Mexico( nothing against the Mexicans) but tagged as Made in Spain, all “ legally” yes. The rumour was spreaded by Spaniards who visited the Carmina factory in Mallorca and found a few workers, not enough to make the runs of orders they have now ( I can tell you the factory my grandpa did, used to have hundreds of workers on a huge factory as big a nowadays Kiton factory is, so something “ smells” here.

Well, this is a rumour, but now real facts;

My pair of Carmina is simply the worst ever dress shoe i have ever owned, the leather was ripped off after a few uses( I was user of the best English and Italian cars, with the best leather on,not sure if Connelly but even might be, living at a few steps from the sea with 99% of humidity and salt coming out of the garaje floor under the sea level that ruins the leather, the exhaust and all the metal, incluiding alloy wheels while supposedly alluminium last, and yet my leather seats, even after having direct sunlight as are convertibles, yet were totally perfect, as i take care of them with the best products, why my Carmina do ripp off after a few uses even using Saphir?

My mother, the real leather expert, not me, who said on my Gaziano pair, this is one of the best leathers i have ever seen, said of my Carmina, this shoe has the worst leather i have ever seen. Did you pay a few euros for it on a defective garment outlet? (This is for real) walking on them is torturing, the insoles do bubbles inside so you walk like on bags of sand, the shoe is a brick and not flexible and you pay what you get, well, 350 euros while for 500 you get the real Santoni, that are what Carmina are cheap copies from. My opinion is that Carmina should cost 150 euros, since the leather is awful and the construction is worse.

I only wear them on the rainy days to avoid damaging my real shoes and my personal, and always my free and personal opinion, is that are unflexible,unconfortable and bricky as this picture.


Paying 350e is for a SEAT while for a few euros more you can get a let’s say, Lexus, is a poor price/quality ratio. The shoes are beautiful, sure they are,
are copies of Santoni and other top makers, like Hyunday copies Toyota among others, and you know this is my daily speech.

Ok, let´s say i got a very defective pair with my usual daily bad luck you all know i have, and i am judging all the runs by a bad pair, i hope can be that, but yet the others i managed on the shop in Madrid have the same bad leather. Also, the quality test were not doing on my pair? How a pair that doesn´t deserves to be sold, and has to be destroyed, is sold on their main shop?

( Note, any Italian shoemaker pays me to bash others) just in case some one says it...

, Simply, if Spain got the best arthisans as fakely they selfsay, why am i learning in Naples far away from my home and family expending a fortune?


Cheers.

 

[ThunderMarch]

Hi, thanks for your words, but let me answer something without trying to be feather on the same subject.

1 and 2,

As i said on my first answer and was insulted by the Spanish poster with the surreal answer as “ I got no idea or i was unrespecting” .

Unrespecting a person who charges as i said, on this case more than three times more than per example some real Italian ones for a unbeteable pair of real Italian shoes?

Also, but this is my personal ethics, as well as the ones of my Neapolitan grandmasters, we do not accept commisions for what is an attempt to classic style or what is a total aesthetic aberration, ( example this shoes i expossed, curiously commisioned by a blogger and “ expert" or the horrible “ suits” pittiesque etc, or my case, per example, an orange big flannel big check shirt with the fabric rotated so the checks show diagonal), but those are the rules of just me and my masters, he or the others do live on a free world and can do whatever they want, of course.

But as i believe on the free market, every one is free to charge what he wants, as well as i am free to give me opinion. What others aren´t free are to insult me saying “ i got no idea", or insult the thruth they can´t digest, as on this Zapasman.

Also, Spanish “ arthisans”, the ones who selfsay are the best in the world, who actually are simply the worst ever, do abuse of the fact that are a monopole of a few ones, so they can ask mad prices as 3000e for a defective poorly sewn and bad fitted suit ( than on Italy won´t be accepted by any customer even for 400) with 20 euros/meter fabrics as Gorina, 255 for a poor defective shirt as Burgos that are the laughs of the Italian shirt industry, on literally 3 euros a meter fabric and crooked pattern and even the machinemade is twisted( Even on 1 euro bazars, the shirts are perfectly sewn instead), or 2000 for this shoes, while on Italy with those prices and bad quality, won´t be opened more than a single week, and they know it, but they allegedly pay bloggers to hype them with lies to fool innocent well hearthed customers.

About Carmina,

Again, there is a very modern and corrupted European law, that goes against the consumer rights, hence lets a garment made outside of the European Union tagged as Made in Italy, Uk, Spain etc, if a barely 0,0001% as per example lacing the laces of a Chinesse pair of shoes inside the EU. ( I wonder how many millions got as bribe the ones who voted yes to this law).

This is not only a fraud, a fooling but an attemp to what was very high quality before the mid 90´s as Made in UK, made in Spain or the best of all, Made in Italy.

There is the rumour that Carmina are made in Mexico( nothing against the Mexicans) but tagged as Made in Spain, all “ legally” yes. The rumour was spreaded by Spaniards who visited the Carmina factory in Mallorca and found a few workers, not enough to make the runs of orders they have now ( I can tell you the factory my grandpa did, used to have hundreds of workers on a huge factory as big a nowadays Kiton factory is, so something “ smells” here.

Well, this is a rumour, but now real facts;

My pair of Carmina is simply the worst ever dress shoe i have ever owned, the leather was ripped off after a few uses( I was user of the best English and Italian cars, with the best leather on,not sure if Connelly but even might be, living at a few steps from the sea with 99% of humidity and salt coming out of the garaje floor under the sea level that ruins the leather, the exhaust and all the metal, incluiding alloy wheels while supposedly alluminium last, and yet my leather seats, even after having direct sunlight as are convertibles, yet were totally perfect, as i take care of them with the best products, why my Carmina do ripp off after a few uses even using Saphir?

My mother, the real leather expert, not me, who said on my Gaziano pair, this is one of the best leathers i have ever seen, said of my Carmina, this shoe has the worst leather i have ever seen. Did you pay a few euros for it on a defective garment outlet? (This is for real) walking on them is torturing, the insoles do bubbles inside so you walk like on bags of sand, the shoe is a brick and not flexible and you pay what you get, well, 350 euros while for 500 you get the real Santoni, that are what Carmina are cheap copies from. My opinion is that Carmina should cost 150 euros, since the leather is awful and the construction is worse.

I only wear them on the rainy days to avoid damaging my real shoes and my personal, and always my free and personal opinion, is that are unflexible,unconfortable and bricky as this picture.


Paying 350e is for a SEAT while for a few euros more you can get a let’s say, Lexus, is a poor price/quality ratio. The shoes are beautiful, sure they are,
are copies of Santoni and other top makers, like Hyunday copies Toyota among others, and you know this is my daily speech.

Ok, let´s say i got a very defective pair with my usual daily bad luck you all know i have, and i am judging all the runs by a bad pair, i hope can be that, but yet the others i managed on the shop in Madrid have the same bad leather. Also, the quality test were not doing on my pair? How a pair that doesn´t deserves to be sold, and has to be destroyed, is sold on their main shop?

( Note, any Italian shoemaker pays me to bash others) just in case some one says it...

, Simply, if Spain got the best arthisans as fakely they selfsay, why am i learning in Naples far away from my home and family expending a fortune?


Cheers.

Thanks for your reply.
It was certainly enlightening and contained quite a bit of interesting information.
Well, I don't think I will debate you much further about Vilalta. To a certain extent, yes, I do agree with your ethics, that a reputable artisan should probably not be agreeable to allow certain commissions to be made, either based on pure aesthetic reasons, or simply because it might not be feasible.
I agree that building a reputable name for your brand is important, and that high standards should be set from the start.
However, that also should not detract from the fact that Vilalta is capable of putting out a decent product. I honestly don't think he should be cast in the same light as some shill blogger or con-man. If I am not wrong, he had given up a career in law to pursue shoe-making. If it was just money he was interested in, he probably wouldn't have taken that risk.

Anyway, about Carmina, I certainly hope that as consumers, we have not been scammed as a result of the law you mentioned. But thank you for the heads-up.
I must say that I am sorry to hear about your bad experience with your pair of Carminas. I must say that I am rather surprised. I do own several pairs myself, but I must say that even though I agree that the leather is not top notch, I have never had any issues with ripping of the leather, or any major discomfort. I find them perfectly comfortable thus far.
It is probably not the most appropriate to compare the leathers of Carmina against those of Gaziano. These are 2 completely different makers and 2 completely different price points. But when I compare Carmina against equivalently priced shoes, even English makers, I do find that they are reasonably priced for the quality that is delivered.

Anyway, I wish you well.

 

[MATEMALE]

Vilalta learned in Italy with Stefano Bemer, so...

Regarding the shoes of The Aristocrata, that are bespoke, is a matter of taste. Maybe even Vilalta doesn´t like them, and maybe his "ethics" are different to other´s. When some artisans refuse to work on something they don´t like, others try to give the client was he is asking for. That is not "ethic0"?. Why?

However, I can´t understand somebody critizing quality of a shoe just basing his opinion on a pair of shoes in a picture...

And assuming that they some kind of freeby... Why? You may know The Aristocrata to say so but, do you know Vilalta?

 

[MATEMALE]

By the way: The shoes of Sartodinapoli picture are, obviously, trial shoes, not finished yet. Let´s try to be a little bit more serious...

 

[usctrojans31]

SartodiNapoli - I typically find your posts good, but your diatribe doesn't really have merit here. Want specifically to defend Norman in this case. As others mentioned, it's clearly a work in progress, so I will ignore it and move on to the next thing--taste. Just because something is reminiscent of what you like doesn't inherently make it wrong. People go to makers like Norman Vilalta and Pierre Corthay because the look and feel of their shoes jives with them. It's more about aesthetics and less about function. Norman is actually my favorite maker in the world because of his ability to make subtle changes to an existing framework and have it be unique.

The paradigm is comparable to my favorite Italian brand--Alfa. You know that you're going to run into quirky issues. The fact that they're described as quirky shows the love and commitment people have to the brand. To some people, the look and feel matters much more than the utility. We buy goods because they appeal to us.

 

[SartodiNapoli]



By the way: The shoes of Sartodinapoli picture are, obviously, trial shoes, not finished yet. Let´s try to be a little bit more serious...

I am sorry to say, the blue uncalificable shoe is almost finished, not the other foot one on raw leather shoe.

That is seriousness, not manipulation, sorry.

SartodiNapoli - I typically find your posts good, but your diatribe doesn't really have merit here. Want specifically to defend Norman in this case. As others mentioned, it's clearly a work in progress, so I will ignore it and move on to the next thing--taste. Just because something is reminiscent of what you like doesn't inherently make it wrong. People go to makers like Norman Vilalta and Pierre Corthay because the look and feel of their shoes jives with them. It's more about aesthetics and less about function. Norman is actually my favorite maker in the world because of his ability to make subtle changes to an existing framework and have it be unique.

The paradigm is comparable to my favorite Italian brand--Alfa. You know that you're going to run into quirky issues. The fact that they're described as quirky shows the love and commitment people have to the brand. To some people, the look and feel matters much more than the utility. We buy goods because they appeal to us.

Without trying to argue, i just helped customers saying that for 600e instead of 2000e you can have real Italian shoes as well as i help against overpaying some hyped Neapolitan tailors and this is not personal taste or opinions but a fact.

On cars, I can understand someone prefers a Kia over an Aston Martin for tons of reasons, but paying more for a Kia than for an Aston, well, freedom exist, also my freedom to comment it.

Btw, there was an article about the low quality on the Corthay construction talking about their bad price/quality ratio. I don't remember where did i read it.



Cheers btw i am also Alfista/Lancista.

 

[bengal-stripe]



Now, rate this ugly monstruosity commisioned by him to Villalta.....

By the way: The shoes of Sartodinapoli picture are, obviously, trial shoes, not finished yet.

I am sorry to say, the blue uncalificable shoe is almost finished, not the other foot one on raw leather shoe. .

No doubt, both shoes are trial shoes. The blue one has extensive markings in silver pen all over, indicating where alterations to last and/or pattern are due to be made. No shoemaker in their right mind would draw so extensively over an upper, when there was even a remote chance the upper could be used for the final shoe. (Although silver pen is supposed to get removed with shoe polish, there is always a chance of residue remaining.) Once the necessary alterations are made, the upper will be re-made, for all we know, maybe not even in blue again. It is possible the blue leather was just some left-over in the workshop. It is obviously unfair to judge a product that is not finished yet and, possibly, will get changed/altered extensively until it will have reached the final stage.

 

[MATEMALE]

Sartodinapoli, the blue is obviously a trial shoe. How can you say it is almost finished? It is clearly to throw out after corrections, please!

Anyway, I can´t understand why you say that with Vilalta you are paying too much. Did you try his shoes?

 

[MATEMALE]

A Vilalta finished shoe.

It is obvius, specially at the heel and sole, that the other blue shoe was just a trial shoe.

Now, you may not like the shoe design or colour, but it´s a matter of taste (the taste of the client rules). But you can´t claim it´s a bad shoe. The work at the heel is fantastic. IMO, second to none. And I´m refering to design and termination. I don´t know every shoemaker in the world to compare on other issues (although I know many, many of them...).

 

[jeremyleediaz]

I will be traveling to Spain shortly and was wondering as to whether anyone had any opinions on the less mentioned spanish shoe brands. When talking about spanish shoes one always hears Carmina and Yanko. Does anyone know about Lottusse, barrats, kollflex, george's handmade and the other welted shoe brands? Also, are the Carmina prices in Spain less expensive than in their paris store? Thanks.

As far as cheap--yet welted--shoes go, Magnanni is from spain and is a decent brand. They have a higher-end line and the shoes in it are beautiful. That's mainly if you're trying to save some cash, while still getting some quality for your money.)