Ongoing Bespoke Projects

[clee1982]

If she had issues getting workers wouldn't it be better to reduce capacity and raise prices so she could pay more? Especially if there's no lack of demand.

Can't really blame young people leaving to start their own shops -- some will have the skills and luck to succeed, others will not, how is that different from other professions? The girl who left her for Dolce & Gabbana probably did so for a better paying job, better quality of life, or both.

I assume she has done her business case of how much higher wage she can pay, and how much she can pass to client then how much volume decrease etc…, though got to think for certain profession at the top end it takes a long time to hire the right person even with “right” wages (and hire the right guy probably has some trial error too)

 

[Texasmade]

If she had issues getting workers wouldn't it be better to reduce capacity and raise prices so she could pay more? Especially if there's no lack of demand.

Can't really blame young people leaving to start their own shops -- some will have the skills and luck to succeed, others will not, how is that different from other professions? The girl who left her for Dolce & Gabbana probably did so for a better paying job, better quality of life, or both.

Even if she paid more, I doubt her problems would go away. There are some jobs that people just don't want to do.

 

[JohnMRobie]

If she had issues getting workers wouldn't it be better to reduce capacity and raise prices so she could pay more? Especially if there's no lack of demand.

Can't really blame young people leaving to start their own shops -- some will have the skills and luck to succeed, others will not, how is that different from other professions? The girl who left her for Dolce & Gabbana probably did so for a better paying job, better quality of life, or both.

Nicoletta is far from the first to ring the alarm bell on this and it isn’t a novel concept. It’s not new in Italy, it’s not new in the United States, it’s not new in the UK.

@Despos has posted on here plenty of times about the difficulties in finding a coat maker. My tailor shared with me their difficulty in finding a coat maker. They’re far from the only ones. It was covered pretty in depth by Italian GQ last year. People who do a couple months of work and set out on their own to open a new shop in hopes of becoming an influencer a la Luca Rubinacci or the younger Tofani and getting the bag.

I’ve got nothing against people wanting to earn and let’s be honest, none of us could afford this hobby without some cash in our pockets but the short cut mentality and not wanting to learn is something that’s been pretty well covered from multiple sources.

 

[jonathanS]

I don't know anything about F. Caraceni apart from what I've read on PS and SF over the years (so can't agree or disagree with this statement), but not sure that I see how (had she been a cutter/tailor/sarto instead of spending her time managing the business side) the shop's tailoring capacity could have significantly increased. If she were a trained cutter I'm sure she would have greatly contributed to a small (and shrinking) technical team, and perhaps have inspired/motivated (by example and by working directly alongside them) more of her workers to stay, but the fundamental problem would have remained that she could not find enough trained and capable staff to meet demand.

Well, think of a great restaurant & losing the chef. But this chef is irreplaceable apparently. Whereas if the chef was the owner, acquiring help will always be easier.

Also, a young tailor wants to learn from ferdinando caraceni, not some employee of Nicoletta (no offense to them).

Even if she paid more, I doubt her problems would go away. There are some jobs that people just don't want to do.

From what I’ve heard, she’s not the easiest personality to work for either.

Nicoletta is far from the first to ring the alarm bell on this and it isn’t a novel concept. It’s not new in Italy, it’s not new in the United States, it’s not new in the UK.

@Despos has posted on here plenty of times about the difficulties in finding a coat maker. My tailor shared with me their difficulty in finding a coat maker. They’re far from the only ones. It was covered pretty in depth by Italian GQ last year. People who do a couple months of work and set out on their own to open a new shop in hopes of becoming an influencer a la Luca Rubinacci or the younger Tofani and getting the bag.

I’ve got nothing against people wanting to earn and let’s be honest, none of us could afford this hobby without some cash in our pockets but the short cut mentality and not wanting to learn is something that’s been pretty well covered from multiple sources.

They go back after 90 days of learning and tell everyone they’re Italian-trained, or even less, in the case of a well regarded Asian tailor.

Maestro didn’t even let them sew a buttonhole, let alone touch the shears in that time!

 

[Texasmade]

From what I’ve heard, she’s not the easiest personality to work for either.

I can see that. Based on the interview she did with Simon C, she doesn't come off as an easy person to work with.

 

[comrade]

Two observations from someone who has never had a bespoke suit made except
in Madrid fifty plus years ago and Quito Ecuador several years later. Both by no
name tailors in cities at a time when the majority of suits were "bespoke". First,
neither of the the Rubinaccis, father and son, are tailors or cutters yet are able
to run a thriving business based on the original Rubinacci's tailoring skills. Second,
Savile Row has more than a few tailoring houses that are multi generational,
some of whose origins are in the 18th century. Yet both examples seem to
find skilled tailors. My guess is that Ms Caraceni is just exhausted and
frustrated with her individual situation in managing to maintain the
extraordinary and deserved reputation of her establishment.

 

[epsilon22]

@clee1982 @Texasmade @JohnMRobie Good points, thank you. I'm sure she must have considered her options and knows a lot more than me. Though I can't help but wonder, if she can't charge enough for her products to be able to pay enough to retain and recruit talents, how could the business be sustainable? Of course there are likely other factors at play here too.

Also, a young tailor wants to learn from ferdinando caraceni, not some employee of Nicoletta (no offense to them).

This is also a good point, the older employees may have formed strong affection towards the former master, but for a new tailor that may not have the same pull. "I learned from X" and "I worked at the company named X after X died" certainly don't feel like they carry the same weight. Maybe if the brand has survived long enough and maintained the good reputation over time like George Cleverley, that could be different.

 

[WhereNext]

No longer ongoing overcoat + mirror that desperately needs to be wiped down after upstairs construction. 640 gram wool-cashmere (85-15) cloth of unknown mill. “Not for everyone” lining that I am thrilled with. Cuffs modeled on a robe my Great Uncle owned and left behind when he passed away (sometimes there are other reasons for going bespoke). I’d lower and/or extend the suppression point a bit, but very happy with this first overcoat with this tailor.

 

[marcusngjm]

Went to Florence and had my first fitting with corcos while contemplating on another sports jacket 🥲💸

 

[CLH03]

Went to Florence and had my first fitting with corcos while contemplating on another sports jacket 🥲💸
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Life is short!

 

[marcusngjm]

Life is short!

Indeed I went to make a pair of bespoke shoes from his friend akira 😂

 

[JohnMRobie]

Two observations from someone who has never had a bespoke suit made except
in Madrid fifty plus years ago and Quito Ecuador several years later. Both by no
name tailors in cities at a time when the majority of suits were "bespoke". First,
neither of the the Rubinaccis, father and son, are tailors or cutters yet are able
to run a thriving business based on the original Rubinacci's tailoring skills. Second,
Savile Row has more than a few tailoring houses that are multi generational,
some of whose origins are in the 18th century. Yet both examples seem to
find skilled tailors. My guess is that Ms Caraceni is just exhausted and
frustrated with her individual situation in managing to maintain the
extraordinary and deserved reputation of her establishment.

The Rubinacci’s have always been businessmen who hired good makers and have never been tailors. Genero was a socialite who advised his well to do friends on which makers and fabrics they should try. He saw an opening and started London House and hiring Vincenzo Attolini. Marino took over and sort of continued his father’s legacy of being an advisor and doing measurements. I’m not sure Luca even measures.

 

[ppk]

x-post from the MC General Chat

Edward Sexton doesn't seem to have a thread here, but Nina Penlington has taken over as the head cutter since Edward's passing.

They are having trunk shows in the US starting next month. Here's their schedule in case you're interested.

Also, Nina was on the Blamo Podcast with @dieworkwear and @UrbanComposition. It was a really good discussion. A Patreon subscription is required to listen to the entire podcast, but the teaser is here.

 

[jonathanS]

The Rubinacci’s have always been businessmen who hired good makers and have never been tailors. Genero was a socialite who advised his well to do friends on which makers and fabrics they should try. He saw an opening and started London House and hiring Vincenzo Attolini. Marino took over and sort of continued his father’s legacy of being an advisor and doing measurements. I’m not sure Luca even measures.

Agreed. I think Luca measures and fits, right? He has to for trunk shows, unless someone else comes alongside him.

Not all that different from paolo martorano in New York - he doesn’t cut, but he can measure & fit.

They’re good salesmen though. But not “sarto,” as they say in Italy.

On a side note, I wonder what the deal is with Rubinacci - only the older generation do you see ex-Rubinacci tailors (eg paone). I can’t think of a single Asian tailor who apprenticed at Rubinacci & went back to Asia to start their own Sartoria, even though Rubinacci is supposedly huge. Usually it’s the likes of pascariello, Panico, or Ciardi. Real bespoke tailors. Maestros.

Heck, I’ve even heard of ex kiton or Cesare attolini tailors who made the transition to bespoke. Think about it, if a jacket maker for Panico isn’t cutting, then he’s essentially doing the same thing as a jacket maker at kiton (perhaps less monotony).

 

[jonathanS]

Went to Florence and had my first fitting with corcos while contemplating on another sports jacket 🥲💸
View attachment 2148125 View attachment 2148127

Kotaro and I have very different tastes when it comes to fabric haha - I’ve concluded that looking at his stock fabric. Not a bad thing or saying it as a bad thing. Just an observation. Those fabrics you posted wouldn’t be my taste. But they’re excellent fabrics nonetheless.