New bespoke suit...

[dah328]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Yes, I can see your point about the measurements. As an aside, the measuring you mention is the "bespoke experience" that can only be had in a face-to-face situation.

I have yet to judge this...not sure how possible it is to accurately gauge MTM vs bespoke. Sure, quality wise no question. But once the suit has been constructed...? I suppose the difference is the fit then.

I should stick to the CE forum where even there we enjoy broader consensus than here.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by dah328

I should stick to the CE forum where even there we enjoy broader consensus than here.

Well, you would be missed. You add quite a lot to the community here. There's never been a question about that.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by dah328

Ditto

(oops did I just breach my own boycott?

)

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Ditto

(oops did I just breach my own boycott?

)

Well you never said how long you were boycotting...welcome back

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Well you never said how long you were boycotting...welcome back

thanks mrchapel, I have to admit you are one persistant dude... You literally built your SF "career" on this thread. It is your masterpiece.

I think the 100 post mark is a good time to reflect on this career and calculate percentages easily : so what % of your total posts were in this thread, repeating the same thing over and over and over and over... ?

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by gdl203

thanks mrchapel, I have to admit you are one persistant dude... You literally built your SF "career" on this thread. It is your masterpiece.

I think the 100 post mark is a good time to reflect on this career and calculate percentages easily : so what % of your total posts were in this thread, repeating the same thing over and over and over and over... ?

Just went back and counted...25 posts from me in this thread.

 

[Manton]

Might I suggest the following?

I agree that the acid test of bespoke is the presense or absense of a completely individualized paper pattern, which is drawn from scratch. However, there is really more to it than that. Just going off an individually drawn pattern is no guarantee of getting a perfect suit. But more fundamentally, the individual pattern is not the end; it is a means to an end. The end is a perfectly fitting suit that realizes exactly what the customer wants, that replicates in every respect what he saw in his mind's eye when he placed his order.*

Bespoke tailors thus draft individual patterns as a means of achieving this end, not the other way around. There are also other things they do to achieve this end, things that many of them think are equally important. Such as: they measure and observe the client themselves. The measuring tailor also drafts the pattern, cuts the suit, AND does the fittings. He carefully supervises all work, even if he does not sew every stitch himself. He conducts as many fittings as necessary and does not employ a system (e.g., sending stuff to factories far away) that make fittings at best impractical.

If you ask a bespoke tailor what is required to call a suit "bespoke" he will mention the individual pattern, but in all liklihood he will mention the above considerations as well. He may even deny that a suit made from an individual pattern, but lacking in these other criteria, is truly bespoke. The reason is, again, simple. An individual pattern is only one means -- a necessary but insufficient means -- of producing a perfectly fitting and totally unique and individualized garment. The other steps are also necessary. In fact, without those other steps, one can make a case that the effort of drafting an individual pattern is wasted. One never knows how such a pattern will perform on a client until and unless one sees it on that client. Adjustments are inevitable. Fittings are necessary. Arguably, MTM patterns are safer and more likely to yield a decent no-fitting suit, because MTM block pattern systems are drawn with great care to work on many different body shapes.

Also: the more control the tailor has over the process, the more individualized (and individualizible) your suit will be. Anything made far away, in a factory, is going to be somewhat standardized by necessity. Tailors who consider themselves truly bench-bespoke makers insist on controlling the majority of the process themselves because they want to be able to make any changes they think are necessary, and any that the customer wants. For example: say you are big and tall, and you therefore prefer a wider pocket flap and breast welt pocket. Well, you can still get a suit made from an individually drafted pattern in which that is not a practical option. A CMT factory will in all liklihood not be equipped or willing to shut down production to change their pocket flap draft just for one suit for you. But a true, local bespoke tailor can and will.

Finally, this has been posted here before, but it bears repeating: no pattern is truly individualized and bespoke in the strict sense unless it is drawn by someone who has actually seen you. Numbers are not enough. Posture and shape matter.



* I realize that not every bespoke customer is so exacting or has a totally clear and detailed idea of what he wants. But the principle remains the same: with bespoke, everything -- every possible change, alteration, modification, or option -- should be on the table.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by Manton

<snipped in the effort to save page length>

Thank you for this very informative post. I learned at least 3 or 4 things from your narrative. I hope one day I can become a witness to the bespoke experience.

 

[Jovan]

Who said anything about Baron Boutique's clothing being made in factories far away? Am I missing something here?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Jovan

Who said anything about Baron Boutique's clothing being made in factories far away? Am I missing something here?
My post was not really about Baron Boutique but an attempt to bring some perspective to the "is it bespoke or not" semantic debate. However, the "far away" point does apply considering that you are in Florida and they are in Nepal. Something is lost when the pattern drafter does not personally see and measure the client. Whether what is lost is made up for by the substantially lower price is another question.

 

[Jovan]

I'm sure if they made visits to the U.S. it would be even more worthwhile. So far, I've yet to see anyone who offers something under $500 who visits my area. I can't really afford a $2000+ bespoke suit.

Anyways, I don't think I even have the money to throw into another suit. I have to focus on classes and whatnot. So, suit this year = out of the question.