New bespoke suit...

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Bespoke and bespoke experience are entirely different things then.


nicely put. agree with that totally.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

So, after thinking about it, based on Baron Boutique's reply and the definition of bespoke, they are making bespoke suits.

Ok now I'm definitely boycotting this thread. My eyes hurt and I want to weep when I read this

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Ok now I'm definitely boycotting this thread. My eyes hurt and I want to weep when I read this

Boycott all you want; just because it expresses a different view then yours. Nice. Anyway, I hold my position. If someone tells me they make their suits without a pre-existing pattern, then, by DEFINITION, it is bespoke. But I regress, no need to repeat what I already wrote. Your interpretation is your own.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Boycott all you want; just because it expresses a different view then yours. Nice. Anyway, I hold my position. If someone tells me they make their suits without a pre-existing pattern, then, by DEFINITION, it is bespoke. But I regress, no need to repeat what I already wrote. Your interpretation is your own.
Throw down! Throw down!

 

[Manton]

If a pattern is drafted in the forest, but no one is around to see it, is it bespoke?

 

[dah328]

Originally Posted by Get Smart

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Bespoke and bespoke experience are entirely different things then.
nicely put. agree with that totally.
That's not nicely put. It's a complete rationalization of an indefensible position. I agree with gdl that this has gotten ridiculous. You are mailing a fixed set of measurements to someone who will construct a suit that differs from a stock pattern only in the dimensions specified by your measurements. That's the precise definition of MTM regardless of any emails you may have. Why don't you email them and ask if their work is the equivalent of Savile Row or Italy? What do you think they will say? At what point will you concede that they're producing nothing other than a low-quality garment? I have a couple jackets from one of the asian MTM-by-mail outfits. The fabric, trimmings, and construction are barely the equal of the poorest RTW and I'm being generous there. Those jackets are useful only for keeping spilt beer off my shirts when I go out. To describe them in any other way is to do a disservice to other forum members.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by Manton

If a pattern is drafted in the forest, but no one is around to see it, is it bespoke?

I have no reason not to believe them. As I did say before, there is no tell-tale way of knowing whether or not they use a pre-existing pattern, save for actually seeing them make the suit. I like to take people on their word as much as possible, and up to this point I have no reason to doubt their word.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by dah328

That's not nicely put. It's a complete rationalization of an indefensible position. I agree with gdl that this has gotten ridiculous. You are mailing a fixed set of measurements to someone who will construct a suit that differs from a stock pattern only in the dimensions specified by your measurements. That's the precise definition of MTM regardless of any emails you may have. Why don't you email them and ask if their work is the equivalent of Savile Row or Italy? What do you think they will say? At what point will you concede that they're producing nothing other than a low-quality garment? I have a couple jackets from one of the asian MTM-by-mail outfits. The fabric, trimmings, and construction are barely the equal of the poorest RTW and I'm being generous there. Those jackets are useful only for keeping spilt beer off my shirts when I go out. To describe them in any other way is to do a disservice to other forum members.

All fair points. I have nothing else to say to you except: my points still stand. A disservice to other forum members? Since when are we all sheep? We all make our own conclusions.

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by dah328

That's not nicely put. It's a complete rationalization of an indefensible position. I agree with gdl that this has gotten ridiculous. You are mailing a fixed set of measurements to someone who will construct a suit that differs from a stock pattern only in the dimensions specified by your measurements. That's the precise definition of MTM regardless of any emails you may have. Why don't you email them and ask if their work is the equivalent of Savile Row or Italy? What do you think they will say? At what point will you concede that they're producing nothing other than a low-quality garment? I have a couple jackets from one of the asian MTM-by-mail outfits. The fabric, trimmings, and construction are barely the equal of the poorest RTW and I'm being generous there. Those jackets are useful only for keeping spilt beer off my shirts when I go out. To describe them in any other way is to do a disservice to other forum members.

The question isnt one of the QUALITY of the bespoke product, but whether or not it's BESPOKE. You keep throwing the "quality" into the conversation which is irrelevant, albeit important to the finished suit. But if it's low quality it doesnt take away from it being bespoke.

There's no definition that says "bespoke" has to mean savile row quality. That's just how you are choosing to interpret the definition.

 

[dah328]

The whole point of an individual pattern is that any and all of its measurements and dimensions can be sized appropriately for the customer. Since you are sending in a fixed number of measurements in this case, only those particular measurements can be adjusted. That is MTM. I do not know why that is so hard to understand.

 

[odoreater]

The only reason why I wouldn't call it "bespoke" and why I think it's a little dangerous to call it "bespoke" is because when people buy a "bespoke" suit they expect an immaculate fit. Here, even though Jovan got a decent fit on his suit, chances are that a potential customer is not going to get a good fit. Like I said before, it's hard enough to get a good fit on the first few times around with just a shirt, which has far fewer measurements that could potentially go disasterously wrong than a suit does. So, by calling this "bespoke" you might mislead people into believing that they're going to get a perfectly fitting suit just by sending measurements to Malaysia, but I feel that more often than not you are going to get an ill-fitting suit at best. That's why real bespoke tailors do fittings, because they realize that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get a great fit on the first try (and I know that it's been done before, but I still think it's unlikely). People should know this before they plop their hard-earned money down for something that is likely to be a disappointment.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by dah328

The whole point of an individual pattern is that any and all of its measurements and dimensions can be sized appropriately for the customer. Since you are sending in a fixed number of measurements in this case, only those particular measurements can be adjusted. That is MTM. I do not know why that is so hard to understand.

One might beg to differ...isn't the number of measurements a tailor takes a fixed number? I think so.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I had the pleasure of meeting tailor Leonard Logsdail at Sartorial Excellence. I noted to Mr. Logsdail that many tailors who take measurements subcontract the cutting of the suit to other tailors, and asked him if taking measurements is the most important part of making a bespoke suit. He replied no, the most important aspect of making a bespoke suit is taking into account all the client's eccentricities -- e.g., does he stand with a slight slouch, does one shoulder dip slightly below the other, etc. These are things that don't come across in cold numbers.

With all due respect, I'm going to credit the view of Mr. Logsdail over that of Wikipedia.

 

[Get Smart]

If you wanted Baron or any other internet tailor to make a suit that goes down to your knees with lapels as wide as your shoulder, they would. That pattern doesnt exist 'on file' (I hope

), therefore you sending them your vital measurements, and them making that crazy ass suit out of nowhere for you makes it a bespoke suit....si or no?

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser

I had the pleasure of meeting tailor Leonard Logsdail at Sartorial Excellence. I noted to Mr. Logsdail that many tailors who take measurements subcontract the cutting of the suit to other tailors, and asked him if taking measurements is the most important part of making a bespoke suit. He replied no, the most important aspect of making a bespoke suit is taking into account all the client's eccentricities -- e.g., does he stand with a slight slouch, does one shoulder dip slightly below the other, etc. These are things that don't come across in cold numbers.

With all due respect, I'm going to credit the view of Mr. Logsdail over that of Wikipedia.

Thank you. As an aside, I never said the most important part of a bespoke suit was the measurements, just the standing definition of bespoke. Which, as my posts have espoused, has created a divide, as well as differing interpretations of bespoke, amongst these fora.