DB jacket proportions - lapel width & button position

[Lowndes]

Well I don't really want to jump into the fray but reading through this thread I have a question and maybe I misunderstand what Rubinacci does.

I thought Rubinancci wasn't a tailor or cutter like say Thomas Mahon is? Doesn't he just take the measurements, helps with the stylistic preferences, etc. and sends them to somebody else to cut and make up? If this is indeed true I don't understand what is so awesome about him. If I was going to pay that kind of money I would want the person to at least be capable of cutting my suit and not having to send it off for somebody else to do. Can somebody clarify this for me?

On other notes I believe people get what they pay for up to a certain extent. Then it just becomes paying a ton of money for extremely small details that might matter to some and might not matter to others. Each has to make up their mind on these matters.

And finally not even on a financial note but a stylistic one and fun one. I greatly admire what some of the HK folks do here by really working with their tailor to come up with a style that suits them and not just accepting a basic house style and going with that. This is one of the reasons why I am going to use a HK tailor. Because they seem extremely open to incorporating the style that you want into the suit and not just their own. It's a process and a hobby for me and I want to play an active role. I'm sure I'll have successes and failures but that is all part of the process and fun to me.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Douglas

But the point is that now, as I am still working on understanding what it is I want and learning about what goes into a garment and how it works and why it works, Rubinacci wouldn't give me any more enjoyment than a Chan. But it would give me more heartburn for the smoking hole in my wallet.
This is an understandable approach, but I think if one is honest with himself, he will often find that he is taking an unnecessarily winding path to a destination he knows he wants to reach.

Originally Posted by apropos

Seriously, man? Are you still on about this? Why do you keep fixating on the assumption that everyone wants Rubi? Or that everyone who gets 'Italian' features on their suits somehow is inevitable trying to get an 'Italian' suit?
You really can't escape your mindset, can you? Saying that Rubinacci is better than Chan in some ways, does not mean everyone wants--or should want--Rubinacci. As I pointed out myself, construing one tailor as "better" than another only tells part of the story. Only when you assume that tailoring reduces to technical know-how along a straight, universal spectrum, such as you have, would you make the overreaching and misguided inferences that I was suggesting everyone use Rubinacci. Moreover, you are free to want a hybridized suit (with respect to your example, a suit with "Italian features" but isn't overall an "Italian suit"). However, that was never in dispute. What is in dispute is if someone who wants an "X Style suit" can get it from a tailor who does not specialize in X Style but incorporates stylistic elements associated with X style.

Originally Posted by apropos

And you're comparing clothing to women now?
Yes. Did you not understand the comparison?

Originally Posted by apropos

This is terrible, and I feel a little unhappy for your tailoring situation. You can't - and shouldn't - mould a person to fit you right off the bat, but you can - and perhaps should - design bespoke clothes to fit your style and sensibilities.
Seriously, do you have any experience working with a tailor? I'm not asking to make an ad hominem attack or put up a straw man, but because: (1) you question my own personal experience, and (2) your statements about how bespoke tailoring should be appear completely alien to the actual experience of what it is. I guarantee you, nobody here who looks good in their bespoke clothes will claim to have 'designed' it, simply using his tailor as an assembler. If you imagine otherwise, feel free to continue dreaming the impossible dream about cheap tailors that can do everything and anything the best, so long as you tell them what to do. To me, delusion is sadder than anything else.

Originally Posted by apropos

Unlike a partner, you should never have to 'accept' your clothing 'as is', or 'live with' less desirable parts of your clothing, or spin it in your mind as these shortcomings being part of what you 'fell in love' with in the first place, because otherwise... how is what you are doing different from what is essentially a RTW concept (this is my vision of style, take it or leave it) melded with the fit of bespoke..?
Your "vision" is really more a delusion about the nature of custom clothing, not a "vision of style," isn't it? It is not controversial to assert that personal style requires comfort and confidence--so, yes, to a degree, one much accept his clothing for what it is. If you cannot do that, you can't have style. You'll just be a fastidious, clothing nerd. Also, you inadvertently hit the nail on the head: bespoke is very much about fit. If you notice, the best dressers on this forum who use bespoke do not use bespoke merely to come up with outlandish, never-before-seen contraptions. Rather, bespoke is most effectively used to achieve the finest fit, finest detailing, and finest quality possible. If you think your clothes can capture and express your individuality, I'd hate to think how shallow and impoverished that individuality must be. My "view of style" is this: clothes, and all other material things, cannot and should not embody individuality, only step out of the way and let it speak for itself.

 

[ramuman]

Is this the thread to ask when the next RLBL sale on Gilt is?

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Lowndes

I thought Rubinancci wasn't a tailor or cutter like say Thomas Mahon is? Doesn't he just take the measurements, helps with the stylistic preferences, etc. and sends them to somebody else to cut and make up? If this is indeed true I don't understand what is so awesome about him. If I was going to pay that kind of money I would want the person to at least be capable of cutting my suit and not having to send it off for somebody else to do. Can somebody clarify this for me?
Mariano Rubinacci is the man that heads the Rubinacci tailoring business, based in Naples. Beyond being in charge of operations and responsible for the products, he is an expert on tailored clothing and an exceedingly stylish man. However, he is not a tailor himself. Rather, Rubinacci employs tailors and assigns one to each client. Thus, when you go to Naples, you meet your tailor and/or Mariano. Mariano might take initial measurements, but his chief role is as an advisor and co-party to the tailor. Nobody is sending off your suit anywhere. In fact, the tailor assigned to you works on your jacket from beginning to end (trousers are done by in-house trouser makers).

 

[Slewfoot]

I feel like a deer caught in the headlights with this thread. I'm going back to work...

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Mariano Rubinacci is the man that heads the Rubinacci tailoring business, based in Naples. Beyond being in charge of operations and responsible for the products, he is an expert on tailored clothing and an exceedingly stylish man. However, he is not a tailor himself. Rather, Rubinacci employs tailors and assigns one to each client. Thus, when you go to Naples, you meet your tailor and/or Mariano. Mariano might take initial measurements, but his chief role is as an advisor and co-party to the tailor. Nobody is sending off your suit anywhere. In fact, the tailor assigned to you works on your jacket from beginning to end (trousers are done by in-house trouser makers).

You should post one of your old pics of your first fitting session at London House because I think that it captures everything efficiently.

I believe apropos, if I remember correctly, is a Chan client with successful versions of their le modèle de StyleForum.


- B

 

[Lowndes]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Mariano Rubinacci is the man that heads the Rubinacci tailoring business, based in Naples. Beyond being in charge of operations and responsible for the products, he is an expert on tailored clothing and an exceedingly stylish man. However, he is not a tailor himself. Rather, Rubinacci employs tailors and assigns one to each client. Thus, when you go to Naples, you meet your tailor and/or Mariano. Mariano might take initial measurements, but his chief role is as an advisor and co-party to the tailor. Nobody is sending off your suit anywhere. In fact, the tailor assigned to you works on your jacket from beginning to end (trousers are done by in-house trouser makers).

So am I right in thinking that there really is no such thing as a Rubinacci suit. He doesn't actually make a single suit. Your suit style is really whatever master tailor that you are working with?

 

[Lowndes]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

You should post one of your old pics of your first fitting session at London House because I think that it captures everything efficiently.

I believe apropos, if I remember correctly, is a Chan client with successful versions of their le modèle de StyleForum.


- B

I would be interested in seeing this, if the pictures are available.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Lowndes

So am I right in thinking that there really is no such thing as a Rubinacci suit. He doesn't actually make a single suit. Your suit style is really whatever master tailor that you are working with?

Huh? This is like saying there is no such thing as a W.W. Chan suit because no guy named "W.W. Chan" worked on your suit or that there is no Anderson & Sheppard suit because there is no tailor named Anderson or Sheppard working there.

Rubinacci does a certain kind of suit, regardless of whether Mariano Rubinacci himself makes anything. It's the same kind of suit they've been making since the early 20th century.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Lowndes

I would be interested in seeing this, if the pictures are available.

Okay, found a couple of the old ones. I think you can see that there's a dynamic going on between Mario R. and the tailor (Angelo?):

- B

 

[TheFoo]

Thanks for posting those very unflattering photos, Vox.

The tailor's name is Gennaro.

 

[Slewfoot]

Ok. I'm back. Is it just me or does Foo's jacket even at that stage look much better than Mariano's?

Lowndes - it's my impression that all tailors work in the way your describing. At Chan and Peter Lee for example there is a set tailor dedicated to my garments. They come out and talk about things with Peter and Patrick to make sure we're all on the same page. Peter and Patrick aren't the ones in the back room with the thread and needles. Even with Steed, there is a dedicated tailor to a client's garments as Edwin does not sew everything himself. Someone stop me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's how it all works.

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

Ok. I'm back. Is it just me or does Foo's jacket even at that stage look much better than Mariano's?

 

[Lowndes]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Huh? This is like saying there is no such thing as a W.W. Chan suit because no guy named "W.W. Chan" worked on your suit or that there is no Anderson & Sheppard suit because there is no tailor named Anderson or Sheppard working there.

Rubinacci does a certain kind of suit, regardless of whether Mariano Rubinacci himself makes anything. It's the same kind of suit they've been making since the early 20th century.

No need to be so defensive just trying to learn a little something about Rubinacci, different tailoring styles, and why you believe nobody can come close to doing his style. What is this style and how has Rubinacci been doing it since the early 20th century. He looks old in those pictures Vox posted but not 200 years old.

I'm guessing he learned the general "Naples" style that his suits are in and then found tailors who do that style. Why does this have to be exclusive to him and to Naples? Why can't somebody from HK go to Naples and learn how to create this style and go back to HK and teach their tailors to create that style?

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

Ok. I'm back. Is it just me or does Foo's jacket even at that stage look much better than Mariano's?

I actually think there are some striking similarities in spite of our very different body types. Check out the back balance and the sleeve shapes.

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

Lowndes - it's my impression that all tailors work in the way your describing. At Chan and Peter Lee for example there is a set tailor dedicated to my garments. They come out and talk about things with Peter and Patrick to make sure we're all on the same page. Peter and Patrick aren't the ones in the back room with the thread and needles. Even with Steed, there is a dedicated tailor to a client's garments as Edwin does not sew everything himself. Someone stop me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's how it all works.

I think this more or less captures it.