Custom Suiting Toronto

[KWang94]

I recently did a bespoke trousers with Tower but I would not say the experience is quite pleasant.

The thigh is too tight and there's no enough space Crotch area. The distance between fly to pleats are different by 0.5 inch. And the left pleat flip out.

My lesson from this is it's important to communicate with the tailor about the style you like. I told him I want a trouser that looks straight from front and side, I don't want it to be too baggy but neither skinny. But I did not show him enough photos about what I like (I did show him a video and a few photos of the trousers I like, in the previous session I had with him, but yes - it's my fault to assume him remember that and didn't bring them up again)

I placed the order in middle of June, he offered a discount for the trouser (700 to 500) so that I can "test the water" which is pretty kind. He took measurement and asked me about a lot of details, which is great.

The first fitting is in middle of July:
Clearly it's not straight. Everywhere seems tight
We had some discussion with regarding the style - I want it to be straight, he disagreed with my way of change but was kind enough to do what I want.
View attachment 1042789
View attachment 1042790


The second fitting is second week of Aug:
Gets better, I want it to be a bit wider to keep it more straight, and I recalled we decided to shorten it a bit or sth.
View attachment 1042791 View attachment 1042792

Note: In first and second fitting, I didn't try to sit down to see how tight it may be as per requested.

Third fitting was first week of Sep, it's the first time I tried to sit down - super tight, I don't feel comfortable at all. And I realized the pleat was facing out. At that time, we realized there's unlikely to be space for letting out, so I asked him if we can re-cut and re-make, I will pay 700 instead of 500 to cover his loss. He said he will finish this pair first, if not, we can remake one (at that time I didn't know remake means.. paying for 2 pairs)

I picked up the trousers last week. Still tight, I pointed out the issue with the distance between fly and pleat, he first said it's the same but once I measured, he said it cannot be changed. I am not happy with how tight it is, and the one pleat facing inside one pleat facing outside, he tried to iron it to fix but failed. i asked him what he suggested to do at the moment. He said the trouser is finished, and I will have to pay the rest. I am shocked but I don't know how I should argue this is not what I want. I paid, he then asked me if we want to re-make, I didn't think that's a good idea so I collect the rest of the fabric (for the jacket.) and left.

It's my first time doing bespoke. Have done MTM with Indochino and another local store (both are taking measurement and sent to China I believe). I don't like the result, have also tried a couple long distance MTM on trouser, no so much success. Since then, I start trying different Italian brands (starting from Belvest/ Sartorio Napoli/ Pal Zileri all the way to Kiton/ Attolini), most of the jackets fit me well after alteration, but never manage to find a good pair of trousers. And I always interested in bespoke.

I knew Ian from this forum and he altered a Zegna tuxedo for me, he did a great job and I have written some recommendation about his work in the toronto thread, I then asked him to did some more alteration job and most of them are amazing, frankly I think he made some amazing buttonholes.

I think Ian has all the skill to make great suits, but the style may be the issue for me, and maybe the fact that I am Asian (different body build accrording to him) make him difficult to make a trouser for me. I have seen a lot of his work but I should have asked for photos on model. I am unhappy with the fact that the trouser can not be worn but given this is to "test the water" with discounted price, I seem to have nothing to complaint.

Damn, sad to hear the trousers didn't work out for you. To my untrained eye, the side profile looks really damn clean but in the fourth picture, it definitely looks a bit strange at the crotch. That's just like my opinion though, man.

WRT Ferrigamo, had my first fitting last week. Overall pretty good. A bit tight in the thighs so we're letting it out but Nicholas and John seem very knowledgeable. Wish I had pictures, to be honest. So far, looking promising. To be quite honest, I was a bit iffy on Ferrigamo before first going in, because I had seen some photos on the Internet where I wasn't wild about the styling or the cut, but so far it's been a good experience. Will continue to keep you all posted.

EDIT: Do 100% agree it's a bit ridiculous that he expected you to pay full price on a remake.

 

[Encore]

Damn, sad to hear the trousers didn't work out for you. To my untrained eye, the side profile looks really damn clean but in the fourth picture, it definitely looks a bit strange at the crotch. That's just like my opinion though, man.

WRT Ferrigamo, had my first fitting last week. Overall pretty good. A bit tight in the thighs so we're letting it out but Nicholas and John seem very knowledgeable. Wish I had pictures, to be honest. So far, looking promising. To be quite honest, I was a bit iffy on Ferrigamo before first going in, because I had seen some photos on the Internet where I wasn't wild about the styling or the cut, but so far it's been a good experience. Will continue to keep you all posted.

EDIT: Do 100% agree it's a bit ridiculous that he expected you to pay full price on a remake.

Thanks for your input. I agree the side looks pretty clean.

Really looking forward to seeing your JF trousers

 

[KWang94]

Update: JF trousers are pretty good. Front is very clean. Got the seal of approval from @induere_to there.

Back does need some work but nothing major from what I can tell. Had some friends recommend shortening the back rise to fix some break at the seat.

 

[KWang94]

As an update: took the trousers back to Ferrigamo to have his opinion on what could be done. I told him I was very happy with the trousers and that they were my favourite trousers in my wardrobe. I explained to him that I want a tapered cut but still with a clean drape. He took a look and told me that it could be done but not with this current pair of trousers and that he wouldn't be happy with me wearing my trousers as they are as they didn't match my vision of what I wanted. He told me, despite my protests, that he wanted to remake them for me.

 

[Encore]

As an update: took the trousers back to Ferrigamo to have his opinion on what could be done. I told him I was very happy with the trousers and that they were my favourite trousers in my wardrobe. I explained to him that I want a tapered cut but still with a clean drape. He took a look and told me that it could be done but not with this current pair of trousers and that he wouldn't be happy with me wearing my trousers as they are as they didn't match my vision of what I wanted. He told me, despite my protests, that he wanted to remake them for me.

Without additional cost? That makes me jealous...

 

[KWang94]

Without additional cost? That makes me jealous...

No additional cost!

 

[induere_to]

I would really like to see this page start to blow up. I'm really interested to see what Toronto has out there within this category. It can be new, old, a great or even a terrible experience. I'm friends with and watch their posts on Instagram, among my 27 competitors in downtown Toronto (Garrison, My King and Bay, Dirty Inc., Harry Rosen; etc.), but would like to open up discussion on personal experiences from some of these places.

If there are no pictures, perhaps share stories of your experiences? I know people have had bad experiences at some local haberdasheries, and others have had amazing experiences at the same places. Even if you want to pile on the inevitable bad-experience-at-Indochino stories. I'd rather not have everyone gang up to destroy anyone's reputations, but at least to give us all a perspective on how passionate some of these professionals can be with what they do.

As someone in the industry, I'm only here to learn from the good and bad experiences, so even a vague, foggy drunken mis-memory could help this discussion take off.

 

[Encore]

@KWang94, your showtime!

 

[KWang94]

Glad Tim posted something. Writing something up now. A lot of it will be from hearsay/research and a bit from personal experience.

 

[KWang94]

I often joke with some of my friends that Toronto is a menswear wasteland, which is true to some degree. The truth is, I don't give it enough credit because there are some truly great gems. Tim (@induere_to) and I have had many conversations with regards to the menswear landscape in Toronto as well as the bespoke scene here. Needless to say, it's a topic of fascination for me.

I'll disclose if I have personal experience with the brand.

- Sr Francesco: Probably has the most experience out of anyone on this list. Apparently semi-retired though. His work is absolutely amazing from what I've seen and heard. Crazy prices though. Permanent Style covered him. Not sure if his prices have changed since Leatherfoot closed.

- Garrison Bespoke: They claim to be bespoke but from what I can tell, the vast majority of their stuff is MTM. The house style seems to favour the overly tight GQ look. If that's what you're into, you do you. Not really my thing. No personal experience but I've walked by the place.

- Harry Rosen: Offers bespoke at their Bloor Street West. Starts at 3.5K for a two-piece. Never tried. I've never liked the ambience of Harry Rosen whenever I've gone in, to be quite frank.

- London Bespoke Club: Seen them on IG and I wasn't overly impressed. Apparently, bespoke starts at 1Kish which I find doubtful.

- Trend Bespoke Tailor: A tailoring house that I've been very interested in and that I definitely want to try. The owner, Don, is apparently eccentric and I've read some mixed things but scrolling through their IG, you can tell they are genuinely passionate about their craft. Probably going to be the next place I'll visit.

- Marol and Pino Peluso: Seems they've opened up a Toronto showroom (appointment only) on King W. They partner with Pino Peluso of Italy to make their bespoke jackets, trousers and overcoat. Seems to be quite pricey but everything I've seen indicates that it's of a very good make.

- GP Mazzotta: The owner also apparently owns Walter Beauchamp now. I've met him and he described his house cut as military-like. So think almost Sexton. The branding is a bit confusing though as there's two separate websites. Seems promising. Hogtown Rake seems to have a positive impression of him.

- Tower Bespoke: Ian MacMillan used to be an apprentice at Trend. I know Encore had a negative experience with him. Full disclosure, I've had dinner with the guy and he's a cool dude. I've been told by friends that his workspace is cluttered and messy as he works out of his own place. Is more of a CMT tailor so you bring your own fabric. He quoted me about 2.8K for a sportcoat which seems a bit on the high end, considering you have to provide the fabric.

- Sebastian Espinosa: Close to Casa Loma so a bit out of the way. He used to work with his father who is also a tailor. Not sure if his father still has his own shop as their social media presence is pretty bad. He tailored a SuitSupply jacket and turnaround time was less than a week. Super nice guy. He seem to offer two makes: one with a lot of hand finishing and one mainly machine constructed at half the cost. I'm interested in trying him out too.

- John Ferrigamo: Great guy. Had a good experience with him. Offers both bespoke and MTM. Prices are on the high end but I can promise you he's committed to making sure you have a good product. Made a pair of H&S flannel trousers for me for 700. Said trousers got the seal of approval from @induere_to

- Spiros Tailor: An old Greek tailor on the Danforth. I haven't heard the best things about him tbh. All work is done by him and bespoke is apparently less than 2K. He apparently isn't very in tune with "fashionable" looking suits though. Think, something your dad would have worn. What I mean by that, is there's a difference between a cutter/tailor and a cutter/tailor who knows how to make you look good.

- Dirty Inc: I've ragged a lot on the guy here. Really nice dude but awful experience. Google Dirty Inc if you wanna see my full review there. If you scroll through this read, you'll see that he replied to an email stating that he's not bespoke, but he seems to have contradicted himself on his IG as well. He's since moved to a new location but I wouldn't recommend unless there were significant changes made to his business process.

- Hajjyy & Son: Bespoke in Scarborough. I went to school at UTSC so I don't have much desire to return to Scarberia LOL. All seriousness, stuff seems to be pretty good from their IG. I shot them a message asking some questions but they sent a super generic answer template. A lot of the reviews on their FB page look like shills/fakes so I can't say too much with confidence.

- Spier & Mackay: MTM and OTR but very competitive in price/quality. MTM can be hit-or-miss due to the factory it comes from but I can't complain. Tim has a very good eye for fit and all the staff are great. They've always done me right. Waiting on a flannel jacket to come in.

 

[Encore]

i think there are also Xavier and Jean Paul

 

[KWang94]

Yeah, I've heard of the two. Can't seem to find much on Jean-Paul. When I google his name, I find some real estate stuff.

Forgot to mention Erol Tailor in Yorkville. I dropped by his store once with a friend. He was a bit blunt but his stuff looked good.

 

[Encore]

You are right, Jean Paul does some Real Estate business now.

He did quite a lot of tailoring for me, overall happy with the experience, (I would say his button holes are not as good as Tower's), not sure if he still takes new customer but do take new orders from existing customers.

Transitional Italian style cutting, strong padding.

 

[induere_to]

Aside from the bespoke houses, I'd be curious to also know a bit more about anyone that does that custom suiting, made to measure in general.

A lot of the names mentioned above I know a bit about, some rumors, some from people that know better. I don't want to go too in depth about some of them as I feel like if I am wrong it could ruin their reputation, or because I have personal relationships, I wouldn't want to provide a biased commentary.

It seems like London Bespoke, just like My King and Bay and Spier and Mackay is actually made to measure, but has the possibility to adjust their patterns to accommodate specific details that most made to measure companies can't. Coppley, when I worked with them, had certain templates that you could choose from, whereas at Spier & Mackay, for example, we can specify lapel curve, gorge height, button placement, lapel width; and details like that.

From the mouth of a good friend of mine, and having a developing relationship with Michael Nguyen, I know that Garrison does actually do bespoke... but it's such a minute business of theirs, the majority of it is made-to-measure.

Ian from Tower is a great guy, he stops by the shop every now and then just to hang out and talk. He reminds me a little of myself in the sense where he's pretty self-taught, but with way more experience, obviously. He does a lot of research to find old, forgotten ways of creating techniques that a lot of people don't use anymore. He owes me a ping pong tournament at Spin.

Dirty, I know of the reviews, his negative reviews, his good reviews. Another guy that has swung by the shop a couple of times. Of the finished work that I have witnessed on some people in person, his work is outstanding. He's also made-to-measure and refuses to use the word bespoke. Despite the bad reviews, and his controversial persona, a part of me still respects who he is and what he does and the 'filterlessness' of his actions.

Our Saturday tailor works at Harry Rosen full time throughout the week and has fed me some of the inside perspectives of the Munro program at the Eaton Centre location. 7 out of 10 remakes? That's a bit intense. But I may just be including this, because the gentleman in charge of that department seems to enjoy running his mouth any time someone seems to walk through the store (has even gone out of his way to troll me on instagram). But I'd like someone else to give in their feedback, if they've had any experiences of their own. This may be a biased review due to the unwelcoming behaviour of the sales person, but I'm close to someone that works closely to him. So I guess I'm mostly curious if anyone has had an experience of their own?

 

[KWang94]

Aside from the bespoke houses, I'd be curious to also know a bit more about anyone that does that custom suiting, made to measure in general.

A lot of the names mentioned above I know a bit about, some rumors, some from people that know better. I don't want to go too in depth about some of them as I feel like if I am wrong it could ruin their reputation, or because I have personal relationships, I wouldn't want to provide a biased commentary.

It seems like London Bespoke, just like My King and Bay and Spier and Mackay is actually made to measure, but has the possibility to adjust their patterns to accommodate specific details that most made to measure companies can't. Coppley, when I worked with them, had certain templates that you could choose from, whereas at Spier & Mackay, for example, we can specify lapel curve, gorge height, button placement, lapel width; and details like that.

From the mouth of a good friend of mine, and having a developing relationship with Michael Nguyen, I know that Garrison does actually do bespoke... but it's such a minute business of theirs, the majority of it is made-to-measure.

Ian from Tower is a great guy, he stops by the shop every now and then just to hang out and talk. He reminds me a little of myself in the sense where he's pretty self-taught, but with way more experience, obviously. He does a lot of research to find old, forgotten ways of creating techniques that a lot of people don't use anymore. He owes me a ping pong tournament at Spin.

Dirty, I know of the reviews, his negative reviews, his good reviews. Another guy that has swung by the shop a couple of times. Of the finished work that I have witnessed on some people in person, his work is outstanding. He's also made-to-measure and refuses to use the word bespoke. Despite the bad reviews, and his controversial persona, a part of me still respects who he is and what he does and the 'filterlessness' of his actions.

Our Saturday tailor works at Harry Rosen full time throughout the week and has fed me some of the inside perspectives of the Munro program at the Eaton Centre location. 7 out of 10 remakes? That's a bit intense. But I may just be including this, because the gentleman in charge of that department seems to enjoy running his mouth any time someone seems to walk through the store (has even gone out of his way to troll me on instagram). But I'd like someone else to give in their feedback, if they've had any experiences of their own. This may be a biased review due to the unwelcoming behaviour of the sales person, but I'm close to someone that works closely to him. So I guess I'm mostly curious if anyone has had an experience of their own?

Interesting to hear that Munro has such a remake rate. Have you examined Munro garments in-person, yourself?

I am apprehensive of brands that claim to be bespoke when they're not. King & Bay, as you've mentioned, seems to be one of those brands. I like truth and transparency. Don't try to sell something that you're not. Plus, scrolling through their IG makes me feel like I'm looking at a bunch of frat students.