Best Course for a First Date

[Fabienne]

Quote:

(Fabienne @ Feb. 23 2005,08:46) When I was single, I always preferred any avenue less obvious than that of the "date routine". Â American women may feel differently, though. Â I hear they expect a lot in general, such as having the man pay for the dinner. Â That's a complete cultural warp for me.
The man paying for everything is a foreign concept in Europe?
It's probably more "me" than it is the culture in France (you can't generalize, it is different depending on the country, in Europe). But as L-E mentioned, it is probably more likely to be "going out for drinks or coffee" than a dinner thing, in the beginning. I've often paid one time, let the other person pay another time. Or the bill is split. When you are talking poor students in Paris, in my days at least, we usually took care of our own tab. I don't like it when someone insists on paying for me. It annoys me to no end. Even to this day (unless it is my husband; and I will reciprocate at some point). Business is different, but I still encounter blurry situation.

 

[globetrotter]

Quote:

(PHV @ Feb. 23 2005,13:18)

Originally Posted by Fabienne,Feb. 23 2005,08:46

When I was single, I always preferred any avenue less obvious than that of the "date routine". Â American women may feel differently, though. Â I hear they expect a lot in general, such as having the man pay for the dinner. Â That's a complete cultural warp for me.
The man paying for everything is a foreign concept in Europe?
It's probably more "me" than it is the culture in France (you can't generalize, it is different depending on the country, in Europe). But as L-E mentioned, it is probably more likely to be "going out for drinks or coffee" than a dinner thing, in the beginning. Â I've often paid one time, let the other person pay another time. Â Or the bill is split. Â When you are talking poor students in Paris, in my days at least, we usually took care of our own tab. I don't like it when someone insists on paying for me. Â It annoys me to no end. Â Even to this day (unless it is my husband; and I will reciprocate at some point). Â Business is different, but I still encounter blurry situation.
When I was dating I always paid for the first date. First, if a woman insisted on spliting the bill, I considered it a code that she wasn't interested, and didn't call again. secondly, it is never that simple to split a bill - there is one acceptable way to split a bill - if it comes to 82.50, pull out a 50 and hand it to me. if it comes to 18.50, pull out a 10. I hate when I am out with friends and the bill comes and they want to either do the math of what they had and what I had, or they give me 80% of what they should. I would rather spare the agrevation and pay for the whole meal. I used to say "you cover the next one". if we met again, she would pay, also she had control of where we were going, since it was her treat. if we didn't go out again, then it was my money lost.

 

[Fabienne]

When I wanted to split the bill, it meant nothing other than the fact that I don't like to feel endebted. I am glad my husband didn't read into it... It's my problem, though, I am much more comfortable giving than receiving.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I'd also disagree that a dinner would mean putting your best foot forward. It doesn't score any points. Women today don't need a man to pay for their meals.

Most women do not need a man to pay for dinner. Â Most women want a man to pay for dinner. Â For all the talk of womens' lib, that's the way the real world works. Â While paying for dinner does not guarantee that a woman will reciprocate your feelings, not paying (or at least offering to pay) pretty much guarantees, at best, a one-way trip to the Friends Zone.

 

[topcatny]

When I was dating I always paid for the first date. First, if a woman insisted on spliting the bill, I considered it a code that she wasn't interested, and didn't call again. secondly, it is never that simple to split a bill - there is one acceptable way to split a bill - if it comes to 82.50, pull out a 50 and hand it to me. if it comes to 18.50, pull out a 10. I hate when I am out with friends and the bill comes and they want to either do the math of what they had and what I had, or they give me 80% of what they should. I would rather spare the agrevation and pay for the whole meal. I used to say "you cover the next one". if we met again, she would pay, also she had control of where we were going, since it was her treat. if we didn't go out again, then it was my money lost.

I always paid for the first date and actually only once did I meet any resistance, (usually there was not even a thought on their part that I would pay). Only one woman I dated wouldn't let me buy her drinks. That one I married.

 

[Bradford]

It's my problem, though, I am much more comfortable giving than receiving. Â

Already made joking comment on this thread..... must resist innuendos... especially after seeing lovely pictures in t-shirt thread... Bradford

 

[LA Guy]

I think an early evening drink is always good. If it's going really well, you can always extend it to a less formal dinner.

Right on the money dude.

As for paying for dinner, I like to pay - it always seemed like the right thing to do. But if she doesn't even offer to split... well, that was sort of a warning signal to me.

Actually, maybe it's old fashioned, but unless it is a group, I always found going dutch sort of cheap. With male friends, if it's coffee, we'll take turns reciprocating. With female friends, the same also applies to dinners. "This time it's me, right? Aha. That's why you ordered the lobster." And if it's a group, unless it is very obvious that one person is in dire straits and/or ordered very little because they had eaten already or weren't drinking much, but just enjoying the company, my friends and I will generally just split the bill equally between all parties. After all, what how do you divide up shared appetizers, bottles of wine, etc...?

In my parents generation, one person will pay the whole dinner (of course, not every night). Actually, there is a sort of formulistic play at the end of dinner when all the senior men stand up and reach into their wallets and jostle to see the check (always put discreetly near the middle of the table at Chinese restaurants), and their wives chide each other saying that their husbands never get to pay, and that this time it is our treat because we are visiting/we are the hosts/we invited you, etc... Very humorous. And very Chinese.

 

[uriahheep]

In my parents generation, one person will pay the whole dinner (of course, not every night). Actually, there is a sort of formulistic play at the end of dinner when all the senior men stand up and reach into their wallets and jostle to see the check (always put discreetly near the middle of the table at Chinese restaurants), and their wives chide each other saying that their husbands never get to pay, and that this time it is our treat because we are visiting/we are the hosts/we invited you, etc... Very humorous. And very Chinese.

How true, and not just Chinese/East Asian.
I've witnessed this phenomenon going out to dinner with the families of some of my South Asian friends.

 

[HitMan009]

Thanks for the replies... I thought the coffee/tea/drinks on the first date to be the best policy. Efficient and pratical.

Deviating a bit, LA Guy, where are your parents from orginally? Taiwan? Shanghai? Hong Kong? All elders are like that.... I guess it all boils down to saving face.

OK, back to the topic at hand.... is a small gift on the first date done? Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.... like a small box of candy, chocolate, etc. Or if I know something, I would use that to pick out a witty gift. What is everyone's else policy on this?

 

[topcatny]

Thanks for the replies...  I thought the coffee/tea/drinks on the first date to be the best policy.  Efficient and pratical.  

Deviating a bit, LA Guy, where are your parents from orginally?  Taiwan? Shanghai? Hong Kong?  All elders are like that.... I guess it all boils down to saving face.

OK, back to the topic at hand.... is a small gift on the first date done?  Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.... like a small box of candy, chocolate, etc.  Or if I know something, I would use that to pick out a witty gift.  What is everyone's else policy on this?

I can't say that I ever did that. Well maybe once based on some funny conversation I had with her prior to the date. To me that is more second date and later territory. After you know them a little better and you can pick up somthing that may have been brought up in previous conversation that you know they would appreciate. I always found it tough to do without it seeming like you were trying too hard until you had been on a few dates.

 

[globetrotter]

I never did

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I think a gift is way too much on a first date.  A bit much on the second date as well, aside from a gift of a bouquet of flowers.

 

[LA Guy]

Deviating a bit, LA Guy, where are your parents from orginally? Taiwan? Shanghai? Hong Kong? All elders are like that.... I guess it all boils down to saving face.

Hong Kong.

 

[drizzt3117]

The whole manipulating to get the check thing is kinda taken to extremes, especially in a large family (both my parents have 9 brothers/sisters) it's getting to the point where people are almost bribing the server to bring them the check... I think it's more common with Chinese, but I imagine other Asians may do it as well (I'm from Taiwan originally)

 

[globetrotter]

The whole manipulating to get the check thing is kinda taken to extremes, especially in a large family (both my parents have 9 brothers/sisters) it's getting to the point where people are almost bribing the server to bring them the check... I think it's more common with Chinese, but I imagine other Asians may do it as well (I'm from Taiwan originally)

on business, I either go myself or have a team member tell the head waiter ahead of time what to do with the bill (I also tell them not to give me guests the wine list, or tell them when truffles are in season, but that is for a totally differnt reason).

when I was dating, I usually went someplace where they knew me and would deal with the check discritly. I hate that whole arguing over the check thing.