Seeking your experiences with SuitSupply "Custom Made To Measure" (bespoke?)

[gimpwiz]

Howdy all,

I am new here. I searched. Sorry if I missed a thread about this - the problem, of course, is that SuitSupply calls their two non-off-the-rack services "custom made" and "custom made to measure," which are not really in line with what others call it. If I am understanding correctly, the former is actually more or less "MTM", and the latter is either bespoke or something between MTM and bespoke. I may not be understanding correctly, so please do let me know.

Anyways - I've read a lot of good reviews of their MTM-equivalent, but not a lot about their "custom MTM" / bespoke / bespoke-ish line. I've looked up that big ol' spreadsheet - - and it looks like the bespoke-ish line is quite well regarded. I would love to know if any of you folks here have experiences with it, and more specifically, if I'm barking up the right tree.

------

While not exactly my question, I figure I can give more details about me and what I'm looking for, and maybe someone will guide me away from even caring. I am here to get your wisdom so lay it on me.

I live in the SF bay area, in the standard very informal industry (wearing a suit even to an interview is generally, for most positions, considered wildly overdressed.) Pretty much the only thing anyone really wears suits for are swank parties (for me, weddings - it's really about to start being a lot of those), and the occasional and very unfortunate funeral. And even for funerals, not many show up in full black. I imagine because many people don't even own a black suit. Anyways.

What I think I am looking for is a suit that plays well to warmer nicer weather and a generally much less formal atmosphere than (eg) NYC, where I'm (sorta) originally from. Something that's informal enough for a wedding reception, but dark enough that the average techies wouldn't judge too harshly for wearing to a more somber event. Something of a high quality to be confident wearing it for a long time - my body shape hasn't changed much and I don't plan on it, so that probably helps a bit. Just enough style to break out of my usual meh-clothes. And a shirt or two to go with it.

Reading all this site and others lead me to suit supply, which seems to have pretty reasonable quality suits within my price range. Checking out their site and some reviews, it seems that if I want a full-canvas jacket, decent material, and maybe a couple neat customizations (a lot of people talk about surgeon's cuffs, pick stitching, custom interior pockets, etc) - the prices for off-the-rack start to add up enough that maybe I'm into the $1000-1500 territory. If the base material at that point is what I'm looking for, maybe it's not a large jump to get things done a bit more to spec.

What do you folks think? I appreciate any feedback.

PS: Waistcoat? Worth getting? Don't much see myself going full 3-piece, except maybe for my own hypothetical wedding. But some people say it can work to wear it without the jacket, especially when it's an outdoor event (again, wedding - someone else's) and of course it's bloody hot out.

 

[dieworkwear]

Is there a reason why you want a custom suit instead of off the rack? What's your height and coat size?

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Bespoke means multiple fittings and essentially total freedom for you and the tailor to design your suit, which isn't what SuSu does. Rather, AFAIK, their 2 non RTW options are made-to-order and MTM. The first one, MTO, means that they can grab any fabric from their inventory and make it into a garment using one of their stock templates. There are a few parameters that you can tweak but it is not custom-made for your body. Cost is about the same as RTW. Their higher-end option is MTM, which will be in accordance with your measurements plus you have more parameters to play around with. Like with most MTM, the resultant fit will depend heavily on who measures you. SuSu's MTM specialists tend to be pretty good, but they're not actual tailors.

Speaking of customizable parameters, if you do go this route, I would strongly recommend you do not get too carried away with bells and whistles such as pick stitching, working sleeve buttons, contrast buttonhole threads, loud linings, etc. 99% of the time they seem like fun when you're talking to the sales guy but then the suit comes and they just come off looking tacky and garish and I will forever hate Indochino for popularizing these things back in the mid 00's. Even subtler details such as pick stitching are not indicators of a quality garment, as the marketing guys might try to tell you. Rather, they are merely trappings of quality, but if the fit and fabric aren't dialed in, they're an empty gesture, like putting a spoiler and rims on an old Camry.

 

[gimpwiz]

Is there a reason why you want a custom suit instead of off the rack? What's your height and coat size?

Sorry if I was unclear above. This is new for me.

Logically: Having looked at the full canvas suits made of material I like, plus tailoring costs. I am already in that price range. If it's not much or any difference in price, why not go for something that'll fit me better immediately, and lets me choose stuff?

Less logically: because it seems cool.

Also: no idea of coat size (first suit ...); 5'10" and a fairly normal slim body / athletic shoulders type.

stuffedsuperdud: I really appreciate the feedback. You've really helped disambiguate what SuSu actually offers. When I visit I'll better understand what's up. With regards to trappings of quality, I quite agree. There are a few things that appeal to me, functionally or stylistically, but subtle is safe.

Another shop I see recommended here in the bay area is Spoon Tailor. I might make a visit there as well.

 

[dieworkwear]

Sorry if I was unclear above. This is new for me.

Logically: Having looked at the full canvas suits made of material I like, plus tailoring costs. I am already in that price range. If it's not much or any difference in price, why not go for something that'll fit me better immediately, and lets me choose stuff?

Less logically: because it seems cool.

Also: no idea of coat size (first suit ...); 5'10" and a fairly normal slim body / athletic shoulders type.

stuffedsuperdud: I really appreciate the feedback. You've really helped disambiguate what SuSu actually offers. When I visit I'll better understand what's up. With regards to trappings of quality, I quite agree. There are a few things that appeal to me, functionally or stylistically, but subtle is safe.

Another shop I see recommended here in the bay area is Spoon Tailor. I might make a visit there as well.

I recommend going off the rack unless you have a lot of money to spend or you have a good reason to go custom (e.g. you're an unusual size, say smaller than 36 and bigger than 44, and are of an uncommon height). The upside to ready to wear is that you can put things back on the rack if you don't like it. It's also easier for you to tell if you like how the suit looks on you.

Good custom tailoring costs a lot of money (for people in the Bay Area, you're generally looking at $3,500 and up, and they're almost all from traveling tailors). If you're spending less than this amount, you're probably better off with ready to wear. Don't get hung up on the idea of quality or custom-tailoring. Focus on trying to understand when something looks good on you.

 

[gimpwiz]

Thanks for the advice.

So on one hand, I agree that it's too easy to fall down the rabbit hole, reading stuff here and other places, about how everyone needs the best thing ever ... On the other hand, I'm basically hoping that this will be my only and very long-term suit, and I would like to get the durable construction and a material that I like.

But you're right about the last part. Most importantly - fit and, yknow, it looking proper. Problem is I don't really know what looks good on me. No bloody clue. Is there a nice central guide people like to refer to? I see a lot of times people post pictures and folks say "you need to fix this and this and this," but I don't really know where to get started on identifying these issues.

Like you said, the folks at SuSu aren't necessarily tailors. Do they have actual tailors to do the final fit? Do they have folks who are supposed to identify issues and find what really looks best? If not them, should I look elsewhere?

 

[bdavro23]

Thanks for the advice.

So on one hand, I agree that it's too easy to fall down the rabbit hole, reading stuff here and other places, about how everyone needs the best thing ever ... On the other hand, I'm basically hoping that this will be my only and very long-term suit, and I would like to get the durable construction and a material that I like.

But you're right about the last part. Most importantly - fit and, yknow, it looking proper. Problem is I don't really know what looks good on me. No bloody clue. Is there a nice central guide people like to refer to? I see a lot of times people post pictures and folks say "you need to fix this and this and this," but I don't really know where to get started on identifying these issues.

Like you said, the folks at SuSu aren't necessarily tailors. Do they have actual tailors to do the final fit? Do they have folks who are supposed to identify issues and find what really looks best? If not them, should I look elsewhere?

I own a MTM company, and even I think you should buy off the rack. Go to a good store, find a good professional and listen to them as they guide you to an off the rack suit in navy that fits you pretty well without alterations. Dont overthink or over complicate this thing.

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks for the advice.

So on one hand, I agree that it's too easy to fall down the rabbit hole, reading stuff here and other places, about how everyone needs the best thing ever ... On the other hand, I'm basically hoping that this will be my only and very long-term suit, and I would like to get the durable construction and a material that I like.

But you're right about the last part. Most importantly - fit and, yknow, it looking proper. Problem is I don't really know what looks good on me. No bloody clue. Is there a nice central guide people like to refer to? I see a lot of times people post pictures and folks say "you need to fix this and this and this," but I don't really know where to get started on identifying these issues.

Like you said, the folks at SuSu aren't necessarily tailors. Do they have actual tailors to do the final fit? Do they have folks who are supposed to identify issues and find what really looks best? If not them, should I look elsewhere?

Unfortunately, if you're based in the Bay Area and spending less than $3,500 on a suit, you will have to do a lot of the work yourself. Meaning, the work of figuring out what fits you. The upside to going to a bespoke tailor, assuming you can find a good one (big if), is that you don't have to really do anything except stand there. They will take care of the rest.

Even then, you still have to develop an eye for what fits you.

SuitSupply is great for reasonably affordable tailoring. Their sales associates are kind of hit or miss. They're sometimes younger guys who are fitting people into clothes that are slightly too small.

If $1,000 is absolutely your top limit for a suit, try SuitSupply or Spier & Mackay. Both offer reasonably good suits for less than $1k. Make sure you know your chest size. If you don't, go to a local tailor shop, such as an alterations shop, and ask the person to find your chest size. Give them $20 for their trouble.

If you can spend a little more than $1,000, try No Man Walks Alone's Sartoria Carrera line or The Armoury's house label (try the Model 3 and some other model that strikes your fancy). Both of these are cut with a slightly roomier chest and slightly extended shoulders, which I think 1) looks flattering on a wider range of guys and 2) may be better suited to your athletic build.

In all these cases, you can take photos of yourself in your suit (have the camera around sternum level and stand such that we can see from your hips up, as well as a full-figure shot. Stand with your arms by your side. Stand naturally and don't overly hunch or throw your shoulders back. Stand however you normally stand and take a few photos of the front, side, and back). People here can give you feedback, but you will still have to find a good tailor to fix any issues. In the Bay Area, I recommend Tailor's Keep in San Francisco. They do great work.

If you're looking to spend $3,500 and up for a suit, there are a bunch of tailors who visit the Bay Area. I use Steed, Anderson & Sheppard, Sartoria Solito, and I Sarti Italiani (I recommend Steed over A&S). If you visit the site Permanent Style, they have a trunk show calendar you can fiddle with to see who else visits this area. Ask questions in the San Francisco trunk show therad on this forum to see if anyone has experience with certain tailors (or ask people in the Ongoing Bespoke Projects thread). Before going to a bespoke tailor, make sure you've seen some examples of their work first. Stay close to their house style.

You will not get a bespoke suit at Suitsupply. They do made to measure. There's nothing wrong with MTM, but the quality of the work entirely depends on the company, fitter, and your needs. At Susu, they will likely be adjusting a block pattern for you. That means, you'll go into the shop, try on one of their standard suits, and then pay some upcharge to have the base pattern altered. That may be widening the shoulders or adjusting the length. That may be fine if you need that work done, but first try ready-to-wear. If it's just a matter of adjusting small things, such as nipping the waist and adjusting the sleeves, those can be done on a ready-to-wear suit without paying the upcharge. You can also return the garment (before adjustments) if you find you don't like it. That's a really useful option, as guys who are just starting out often don't know what looks good on them.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Thanks for the advice.

So on one hand, I agree that it's too easy to fall down the rabbit hole, reading stuff here and other places, about how everyone needs the best thing ever ... On the other hand, I'm basically hoping that this will be my only and very long-term suit, and I would like to get the durable construction and a material that I like.

But you're right about the last part. Most importantly - fit and, yknow, it looking proper. Problem is I don't really know what looks good on me. No bloody clue. Is there a nice central guide people like to refer to? I see a lot of times people post pictures and folks say "you need to fix this and this and this," but I don't really know where to get started on identifying these issues.

Like you said, the folks at SuSu aren't necessarily tailors. Do they have actual tailors to do the final fit? Do they have folks who are supposed to identify issues and find what really looks best? If not them, should I look elsewhere?

I would agree with @bdavro23 & @dieworkwear that the best thing you can do is go to a Department store where they sell suits and try some stuff on. Century 21, Macy's, Brooks Brothers would be a nice economical option. It is quite possible these suits will not be a "lifetime suit", but can assist in the purchase of an upgraded suit.

As you mentioned, how would you even know what to look for? From my experience with people whom I know that have purchased from Suit Supply, Proper Cloth (or other MTMs), I do not think their premium fabrics look good. They certainly do not deserve the up-charge those companies are charging. They tend to not drape properly,or are shiny, or just seem off-balance.

If you do not have a sense of awkwardness about walking into a tailoring store, how about visiting a proper store? I have not been to SF in about 5 or 6 years, but there used to be a nice shop called Tailors Keep. If you go in there and be honest about your intentions, you would receive invaluable information about fit. Moreover, if you are lucky enough you may even be able to obtain measurements where you then can purchase online or OTR.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Unfortunately, if you're based in the Bay Area and spending less than $3,500 on a suit, you will have to do a lot of the work yourself. Meaning, the work of figuring out what fits you. The upside to going to a bespoke tailor, assuming you can find a good one (big if), is that you don't have to really do anything except stand there. They will take care of the rest.

Even then, you still have to develop an eye for what fits you.

SuitSupply is great for reasonably affordable tailoring. Their sales associates are kind of hit or miss. They're sometimes younger guys who are fitting people into clothes that are slightly too small.

If $1,000 is absolutely your top limit for a suit, try SuitSupply or Spier & Mackay. Both offer reasonably good suits for less than $1k. Make sure you know your chest size. If you don't, go to a local tailor shop, such as an alterations shop, and ask the person to find your chest size. Give them $20 for their trouble.

If you can spend a little more than $1,000, try No Man Walks Alone's Sartoria Carrera line or The Armoury's house label (try the Model 3 and some other model that strikes your fancy). Both of these are cut with a slightly roomier chest and slightly extended shoulders, which I think 1) looks flattering on a wider range of guys and 2) may be better suited to your athletic build.

In all these cases, you can take photos of yourself in your suit (have the camera around sternum level and stand such that we can see from your hips up, as well as a full-figure shot. Stand with your arms by your side. Stand naturally and don't overly hunch or throw your shoulders back. Stand however you normally stand and take a few photos of the front, side, and back). People here can give you feedback, but you will still have to find a good tailor to fix any issues. In the Bay Area, I recommend Tailor's Keep in San Francisco. They do great work.

If you're looking to spend $3,500 and up for a suit, there are a bunch of tailors who visit the Bay Area. I use Steed, Anderson & Sheppard, Sartoria Solito, and I Sarti Italiani (I recommend Steed over A&S). If you visit the site Permanent Style, they have a trunk show calendar you can fiddle with to see who else visits this area. Ask questions in the San Francisco trunk show therad on this forum to see if anyone has experience with certain tailors (or ask people in the Ongoing Bespoke Projects thread). Before going to a bespoke tailor, make sure you've seen some examples of their work first. Stay close to their house style.

Were you spying on my computer as I was typing this haha. The "man" always keeps a watchful eye

 

[dhoff10]

Unfortunately, if you're based in the Bay Area and spending less than $3,500 on a suit, you will have to do a lot of the work yourself. Meaning, the work of figuring out what fits you. The upside to going to a bespoke tailor, assuming you can find a good one (big if), is that you don't have to really do anything except stand there. They will take care of the rest.

Even then, you still have to develop an eye for what fits you.

SuitSupply is great for reasonably affordable tailoring. Their sales associates are kind of hit or miss. They're sometimes younger guys who are fitting people into clothes that are slightly too small.

If $1,000 is absolutely your top limit for a suit, try SuitSupply or Spier & Mackay. Both offer reasonably good suits for less than $1k. Make sure you know your chest size. If you don't, go to a local tailor shop, such as an alterations shop, and ask the person to find your chest size. Give them $20 for their trouble.

If you can spend a little more than $1,000, try No Man Walks Alone's Sartoria Carrera line or The Armoury's house label (try the Model 3 and some other model that strikes your fancy). Both of these are cut with a slightly roomier chest and slightly extended shoulders, which I think 1) looks flattering on a wider range of guys and 2) may be better suited to your athletic build.

In all these cases, you can take photos of yourself in your suit (have the camera around sternum level and stand such that we can see from your hips up, as well as a full-figure shot. Stand with your arms by your side. Stand naturally and don't overly hunch or throw your shoulders back. Stand however you normally stand and take a few photos of the front, side, and back). People here can give you feedback, but you will still have to find a good tailor to fix any issues. In the Bay Area, I recommend Tailor's Keep in San Francisco. They do great work.

If you're looking to spend $3,500 and up for a suit, there are a bunch of tailors who visit the Bay Area. I use Steed, Anderson & Sheppard, Sartoria Solito, and I Sarti Italiani (I recommend Steed over A&S). If you visit the site Permanent Style, they have a trunk show calendar you can fiddle with to see who else visits this area. Ask questions in the San Francisco trunk show therad on this forum to see if anyone has experience with certain tailors (or ask people in the Ongoing Bespoke Projects thread). Before going to a bespoke tailor, make sure you've seen some examples of their work first. Stay close to their house style.

You will not get a bespoke suit at Suitsupply. They do made to measure. There's nothing wrong with MTM, but the quality of the work entirely depends on the company, fitter, and your needs. At Susu, they will likely be adjusting a block pattern for you. That means, you'll go into the shop, try on one of their standard suits, and then pay some upcharge to have the base pattern altered. That may be widening the shoulders or adjusting the length. That may be fine if you need that work done, but first try ready-to-wear. If it's just a matter of adjusting small things, such as nipping the waist and adjusting the sleeves, those can be done on a ready-to-wear suit without paying the upcharge. You can also return the garment (before adjustments) if you find you don't like it. That's a really useful option, as guys who are just starting out often don't know what looks good on them.

Curious why you mention Tailors Keep for fixing off the rack but not for getting the suit in the first place. I believe they are usually well below the $3500 you mentioned. I haven't gotten a suit from them but am considering it.

 

[dieworkwear]

Curious why you mention Tailors Keep for fixing off the rack but not for getting the suit in the first place. I believe they are usually well below the $3500 you mentioned. I haven't gotten a suit from them but am considering it.

Oh right, I forgot they have MTM. I don't have any direct experience with it, but a friend of mine bought an MTM suit from them and I thought it looked good. He is very tall, however, and I still think someone should have a good reason to go MTM rather than OTR.

Instead of thinking that custom means "better fit," I think people should think custom more in the literal sense of the word -- someone is just adjusting a block pattern for you or they're creating something from scratch. It could go well or it could go horribly wrong. Even if it goes well, you may find that you don't like silhouette in the end, at which point you can't return it. I think guys tend to see these things in some hierarchy, where it goes OTR -> MTM -> Bespoke, like you're climbing up some pyramid, when it's not like that at all.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Curious why you mention Tailors Keep for fixing off the rack but not for getting the suit in the first place. I believe they are usually well below the $3500 you mentioned. I haven't gotten a suit from them but am considering it.

Oh right, I forgot they have MTM. I don't have any direct experience with it, but a friend of mine bought an MTM suit from them and I thought it looked good. He is very tall, however, and I still think someone should have a good reason to go MTM rather than OTR.

Instead of thinking that custom means "better fit," I think people should think custom more in the literal sense of the word -- someone is just adjusting a block pattern for you or they're creating something from scratch. It could go well or it could go horribly wrong. Even if it goes well, you may find that you don't like silhouette in the end, at which point you can't return it. I think guys tend to see these things in some hierarchy, where it goes OTR -> MTM -> Bespoke, like you're climbing up some pyramid, when it's not like that at all.

I would add, on a personal level, there is not much difference between MTM and OTR. I really base that on many finished questionable products that do not resemble a "custom fit". As already mentioned, garments can be made horribly bad or rather good. In all honesty, other than selecting colors or linings or fabrics I would say you are essentially purchasing a glorified OTR garment. That is not to say that you could not achieve a fabulous fit with MTM that you could not find with OTR but those companies are rather expensive (Alan Flusser and Atelier Saman Amel come to mind).

The other challenge you will encounter with MTM is the issue of vision. I find when you are just starting out attempting to envision how your suit will look and fit with a small little piece of fabric is difficult. Factoring in you then have to select linings, buttons, etc etc can feel rather burdensome. You may even jump into a hasty decision. At least with an OTR item, all those decisions are eliminated, and all you have to worry about is how the suit or jacket will fit.

As @dieworkwear mentioned, Spier & Mackay really offers exceptional value. To me, I find their fabrics slightly superior (hand feel) to Suit Supply. Moreover, I believe they are more inexpensive and offer various discounts throughout the year. Of course, you would have to know your size so I implore you to get some measurements done.

 

[dhoff10]

I would add, on a personal level, there is not much difference between MTM and OTR. I really base that on many finished questionable products that do not resemble a "custom fit". As already mentioned, garments can be made horribly bad or rather good. In all honesty, other than selecting colors or linings or fabrics I would say you are essentially purchasing a glorified OTR garment. That is not to say that you could not achieve a fabulous fit with MTM that you could not find with OTR but those companies are rather expensive (Alan Flusser and Atelier Saman Amel come to mind).

The other challenge you will encounter with MTM is the issue of vision. I find when you are just starting out attempting to envision how your suit will look and fit with a small little piece of fabric is difficult. Factoring in you then have to select linings, buttons, etc etc can feel rather burdensome. You may even jump into a hasty decision. At least with an OTR item, all those decisions are eliminated, and all you have to worry about is how the suit or jacket will fit.

As @dieworkwear mentioned, Spier & Mackay really offers exceptional value. To me, I find their fabrics slightly superior (hand feel) to Suit Supply. Moreover, I believe they are more inexpensive and offer various discounts throughout the year. Of course, you would have to know your size so I implore you to get some measurements done.

All good points, but I think there is an option between MTM with house fabric and $3500 bespoke and it may be what @gimpwiz is looking for.

He doesn't wear suits much, but when he does he wants it to look great and be able to count on it for a while for special occasions.

Something like Tailors Keep (which I think counts as 3 fitting bespoke not MTM) gets you substantial time with a good tailor to help with the vision issue mentioned, a great fit, and branded fabric. There is one round of adjustments built into the $1700-3000 price they gave me.

Another option is the Hong Kong tailors that travel through the bay area, which can shave the cost down to $1200 for a canvassed suit with a fabric like VBC. HK is a bit of a minefield, but there is a whole thread to help you navigate it and there are some great low cost options. (A major portion of process of making your suit will occur in China)

My personal opinion is an emphatic yes on the waistcoat if it doesn't bust the budget after you've settled on the suit you want.

 

[dauster]

Andreas Gorges next to Union Square on Sutter St has only done basic alterations for me as well as a custom shirt but so far I have had a great experience. I know he does suits as well. Probably more economical than tailors keep.
Also Richard Anderson comes to SF and their MTM is around $3,500 if I remember correctly.

Also, may I suggest just a navy sports jacket. Should definitely be enough for most weddings and other occasions, especially if you don’t wear any dress pants to work.Solito or Orazio Luciano both come to SF and offer sports jackets in the low to mid $2k range.