Custom shirts

[Mike C.]

Shade of Cut:  I chose form, only because I though tight would be too tight. I chose correctly because form, was pretty tight, so tight would be really tight. The form fitting amounted to only about four inches of extra fabric around the body. If you want something along the lines of Gucci, I'd suggest the medium fit. The measurments on the website are exact, so don't expect anything different.

  Shape of Shoulder:  I chose regular, because my shoulders are pretty regular. If you have a specific type of shoulder that is obvious, then I'd choose accordingly.

  Back height of collar: I went with 1 3/4" because I wanted a higher collar in British style. It's really a matter of personal preferance here.

  Shirt tails:  I chose square tail.  I wanted a shirt for casual wear. If you plan on tucking it in then chose regular tail.

 

[pstoller]

I previously read the GQ one but it has seriously gone down hill lately with the exceptions of a few quality posts from Bengal Stripe and PStoller (sorry if I am leaving anybody out).

PeterMetro has been a force for good of late, but I think the GQ Forum is beyond salvation. I'm amazed that a mainstream publication"”especially one that's purportedly about style and class"”would permit such a poorly-run forum to bear its name.

 

[Thracozaag]

The clothing forum on the modernman.com site has MANY colourful characters.

 

[Jantzen fan]

For those of you that are still hesitant about ordering shirts from Jantzen, let me say a couple of things that may help answer your queries as to how Jantzen can make such good quality shirts at such a low price. I work and live in Hong Kong and my office is just down the road from Jantzen Tailor. I have purchased about two dozen shirts from Jantzen so I guess this makes me qualify to make comments. Why so cheap? Jantzen charges between US$32 and US$42 for a shirt, which is cheap even by Hong Kong's standards. This is made even cheaper for those of you who live in the US or Australia due to the strength of your local currency (eg, it's about US$1:HK$7.80). Asia is known for its low labour costs. My guess is it costs US$10 or less for a tailor to make a shirt, which still gives Jantzen a tidy profit (although Jantzen has had to raise prices recently to offset the low prices that they are charging their old/regular customers). The secret lies with sales volume. Jantzen is very well known among a large group of professionals in Hong Kong who are mostly in the investment banking industry and most of these offices are in the central business district where Jantzen is also located. However, Jantzen is situated in an old and groggy little run-down building. The size of the Jantzen store is no bigger than your average single-car garage so you can image they are not paying huge rents. Every time you visit the Jantzen store there are literally 30-plus bags of shirts sitting on the floor waiting for their owners to them pick up. Also, each time I go there the shop is packed with eager customers, some of whom order a dozen shirts at a time. So I hope you can get an idea of the amount of business Jantzen does and that its costs are kept low. Secondly, where Jantzen sources its fabrics for shirts is important. Most of the fabrics are "˜left-overs' from (I guess) export shipments and factories. Jantzen openly admits that its supplies are highly unreliable as a result - but then again who cares as long as our shirts come cheap. Quality? Basically, making a shirt does not involve rocket science. As long as you are dedicated to the art and pay fine attention to details the rest is simple. The only difference is how much people decide to charge you. You can buy a Zegna shirt for US$150 or a Jantzen shirt for US$32 and you'll be hard pushed to tell the difference if there were no labels. For those of you who are still skeptical visit the Jantzen website (http://www.jantzentailor.com/index.htm) and read their guest book. Jantzen sells a lot of shirts to people living in the US via the Internet. You will find similar comments like: "the quality and fitting are perfect", "I will look to order more shirts" or "I will recommend it to my friends". This is precisely what my friend did. He recommended me and I have recommended at least half a dozen others since. The key to the success of Jantzen is word-of-mouth based on quality and reliability but at a low price. Choice and style Jantzen offers a lot of fabrics, which other tailors in Hong Kong don't (just the usual run-of-the-mill stuff, ie white, blue, pink, etc, and nothing exciting like Jantzen's checks and stripes). Another important element is Jantzen constantly looks at shirt-design trends like dual-button, high spread collar shirts with colour button holes and thick buttons. The latest trend is three buttons on the collar and cuffs. You may think this is all either bull or I work for Jantzen. But the fact of the matter is I am just a big fan of Jantzen's custom shirts and nothing less and nothing more.

 

[Steve B.]

Jantzen Fan:

I'm curious as to why Asia's labor costs are so cheap. Who is the typical garment worker in Hong Kong?

 

[Nick M]

CTGuy - The forum was the 'business talk' message board at ICERED. Unfortunately, it's been pretty much over-run with trolls. I agree, the Modern Man clothes forum has one or two... eccentrics, but it's still a good forum. It's more concerned with advice on the rules of dressing than the more abstract discussions often posted here. I'd say that each fills the void left by the other. Steve B. - I was under the impression that the labour costs in Asia - Hong Kong especially - are so low due to insane amounts of competition. Hong Kong has very little welfare system to speak of, so there's no safety net - it's either sink or swim. Someone with more knowledge of the region will no doubt know more - or let me know I'm completely wrong. Cheers, Nick.

 

[Jantzen fan]

Steve B,

Your average garment worker would be 40-plus and lowly educated. I guess this is similar in the US and anywehere else in the world.

 

[mid-man]

Hi all. I am new to here. I am a 30 year old guy living in HK working in the computer industry. My cousin is my teacher is men's clothing (for those of you who have visited icered, Old_sales is my cousin and he has been contributing a lot to the men's clothing scene).

I also have most of my shirts made from Jantzen as well as suits. All I got to say is for the price, I dont really care if I spilled spaghetti source on it and I still feel super good about the shirts. I used to wear only Canali as I have a strange build.

Anyway nice to meet you all.

 

[Steve B.]

Is it my imagination, or is this Forum becoming a commercial for Jantzen tailors?

I personally would be concerned that the reason for the low pricing is that these shirts might be made under labor conditions that aren't legal here in the States. Not everyone cares about this, and we certainly don't have any proof (see Jantzen Fan's evasive answer to my earlier question in this thread).

However, due to my admittedly left political leanings I just won't buy clothing made in Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, Eastern Europe, or other "off shore" locations for this reason.
And my reasons are beyond political...I've bought clothing made in these places before, and it doesn't launder as well, and wears out more quickly. If I buy a name brand, it may cost more, but it will last longer, and my overall cost of dressing well over the long term is lower. I believe that well made clothes made by individuals who are passionate about their craft put soul into my art of dressing, which is what I'm all about. Perhaps I'm being maudlin, but clearly many of the individuals who post here are also passionate about clothes. I just can't feel right about wearing something that may have been made by exploited labor.

I know you may not all feel the same way, but if this is the way these clothes, or any other designer or brand's clothes are made, shouldn't we all have such information so that we can make an informed choice?

 

[Jantzen fan]

Stevie B - do not accuse me of anything here unless you want to start a flame war-of-words. Also, do not jump to conclusions that: 1) my answer to your earlier question is deliberately "evasive"; and 2) that just because the shirts are sold cheaply they are made by 'child/exploited labour'.

1) Just because you ask me about the labour conditions in Hong Kong, it doesn't mean I will have a readily avaliable answer. I don't work in the garment industry so I'm just giving you an educated guess. I respect the fact that you like your clothes 'crafted by passionate tailors' and that you like to pay a premium for the lablels and that it makes you feel better to know that you've been overcharged (remember one reason why designer goods are so expensive is because of the huge marketing costs). This is totally up to you. Everyone will value things differently. But uless you know things for a fact (ie, actually came to Hong Kong and witnessed what you claim) don't go around throwing accusations Like I said, if you don't believe me visit Jantzen's wedsite guest-ook for comments from overseas customers.

2) So I presume every time you walk into (...say a restaurant) you ask to inspect labour conditions and where the ingredients come from and if they've been grown by child labour toiling the fields and how much is the chefs are being paid? Or can I presume you only eat at expensive outlets becasue prices are higher there so the labour conditions must be top-notch?

Hong Kong is not a lawless society. In fact, it's the most domocratic place with many laws and regulations that are enforced.

Get off your 'high-horse' and get your facts right before you try to stand there and look superior.

Happy New Year mate.

 

[Jantzentailor]

Fan,
Stop argue with this GUY.
I don't care what he said.
I don't belive that he NEVER buy clothes from other country (beside U.S.A. or Euro.)
I will save my energy for other apprciated person like Icereder.
You know me, I don't like pushing poeple. ( espeacial some high-horse.)
But, One thing is very strenght to me, I always thought American was very open, it seems Hong Kong's Icered is more open, I never had any arguement with other Icereder.
In this forum aren't friendly. So I decided I will not post any more in this forum.

 

[daytona]

Steve B>> Wake up man. Do you have a pair of sneakers like, Rebook, Nike, New Balance, Timberland, etc. Open your eyes and look at the labels. They are all made in China or your so-called "off shore" location. Also, they are made by low-educated (or no educated) workers.

or....maybe you don't have any casual shoes. You wear your "Gucci" or "Prada" shoes everyday... even on the weekend.

 

[LA Guy]

In answer to several issues that have been raised in this thread:

Manufacturing techniques and standards tend to be pretty standard across the board. Yes, there are differences in pay scales in different countries, and in working conditions, but trust me, the typical L.A. garment worker is much more likely to be an underpaid, undereducated Mexican immigrant living in the barrio than a skilled artisan devoted to churning out pairs of Seven jeans for your consumption. In any given price range, the quality of the manufacture will generally reflect the price you pay, regardless of where it was made.

A more expensive piece of clothing may be bearing with it a lot of marketing costs, and is likely be marked up deliberately to limit availability. But since there is less pressure to drive manufacturing costs down, more stringent quality control, more time-consuming manufacturing techniques, better materials, etc. can be used. Moreover, brand positioning is extremely important in the luxury market, and the perception that the goods are being made in sweatshops and/or with inferior materials would damage a brands credibility (remember when Nike went under the gun? What about the damaging accusations that Jil Sander left her eponymous label because Prada was forcing her to use cheaper materials?) Luxury goods tend to be made in affluent countries such as Italy, France, the U.K., Germany, Canada, and the U.S., (there is a trend afoot, started by Gucci, especially among smaller labels, to bring manufacturing in house and cut down on licensing, so they can better control the brand image). Even so, even the super high end houses are starting "Shanghai bespoke" service, which take advantage of cheaper, skilled, labor abroad. And I imagine that an enterprising Chinese tailor and businessman could make use of the strong dollar and cheaper manufacturing costs in Hong Kong to make a killing selling cheap custom order shirts and suits to U.S. customers without having to abuse their workers.

That being said, I can speak neither to the working conditions at Jantzen Tailors nor to the quality of their shirts, since I have no experience with them. It does seem that a lot of the Jantzen Fan's posts seem to be PR for the tailor. I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone, but is there some way to check that these new members are legitimate, and are not just proxies? I would hate to see this forum hijacked.

 

[LA Guy]

Of course you're right. The argument that buying luxury goods constitutes a societal good is a specious one. It is possible to be socially responsible without buying $500 shoes.

In fact, the argument could be made that buying $500 shoes is living beyond your means insofar as you are probably using more resources than you could command based on your actual productivity, and that the burden is being carried by, for example, starving people in the Sudan.

An even more radical view would hold that you are entitled based on the global per capita average available resources, rather than based on your productivity. I don't hold by this ethos.

On the other hand, supporting companies that you are aware do exploit workers is just as morally suspect.

Probably the most socially responsible thing to do would be to live frugally and to give as much as possible directly to charities. Based on what I read on this board, I don't think that anyone of us should preach to another. It seems that we all consume as much as our ill-gained means will allow, from the grad students who buys Dior to lawyers who trolls NY and LA stores for designer suits, to the those with more shirts than days in the year or suits in a month to moneyed sons who can afford to pay cash for cars and to give them to their girlfriends for Christmas.

Personally, I assuage my own guilt best I can by supporting charities and doing charitable work. But let us all be conscious that should there be a global revolution, we would be hard pressed to find one of us in the audience and not at the business end of the guillotine.

 

[Steve B.]

Daytona, CT Guy:

Believe it or not, I do check the labels on everything I buy.

I'm surprised to see how outraged the Jantzen people are about a mere question, which they still haven't seemed to ANSWER.

Of course you and everyone else that posts here can buy whatever you want, made under whatever conditions you want.

But because this is an open Forum, and we as gentleman should be able to agree to disagree, I have as much right to ask this question as the Jantzen gentlemen do to tout the advantages of their product.

At this point I think the Forum's administrator needs to decide how/if this thread should continue.