When did the counterfeiting of luxury goods begin?

Originally Posted by hadamulletonce

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That is true. There are many ways to authenticate Louis Vuitton but the alignment of the monogram canvas is the first sign of a poorly made fake.

The pattern matching, you mean? Or is there something more specific?

^Unfortunately, there's nothing much specific anymore... the fake LV goods have gotten good to the point that you have to weigh the hardware, count stitches, or test the "feel" and hand of the canvas. Long ago, the LV fakes were laughable and you could spot them right off. The more recent level of "superfakes" though, are REALLY tough.

I can only tell these when I see/feel them in person and often only with an authentic one sitting next to it to do the "counting" (of stitches). Just seeing pictures probably wouldn't be enough.

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

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Though there is some evidence amongst the much more ancient cave drawings of France that the first luxury clothing may have been when Ugg gave his wife a fur made out of an animal with sharp claws and teeth that could actually fight back. Other Neanderthals were mightily impressed at the skill and supreme labor, not to mention the risk, that Ugg took that elevated cave-wear several notches that year.

Many years later the decendants of Ugg left France and eventually migrated to Australia.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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The pattern matching, you mean? Or is there something more specific?


It's more about how the fabric is cut to fit on the bag. When the fabric is cut for an authentic LV, all sides are cut to match in position on all sides. If the LV and flower are half under the strap anchor on the left it should match exactly on the right at well. This will hold true at all seams, top and bottom.

I do agree with rach2jlc and have learned from experience about superfakes. My wife asked for a Multicolor Murakami Speedy a while back and I ended up buying a very nice fake by mistake. The only way I could spot without ripping the bag apart or removing all the hardware is the lining. I noticed some spots on the canvas where the red lining had bled through. Curiousity got the best of me and I did eventually rip apart the bag rather than returning it and found Chinese newspaper used as a lining between the canvas and interior fabric.

While some form of Gucci envy has existed in some form or another since we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, ever since Cartier invented the Le Must line, most of the "authentic" luxury brands are "fake" as well...forget about counterfeits.

I'm not hinging the entire argument on Dana Thomas's book, but there's a level of reality that most here probably (or should) feel uncomfortable about. I think the Devil really does wear Prada.

Just think of all the pieces of the “True Cross”. In the middle ages there was a counterfeiting industry,
producing all those reliquaries.

Each age has a demand for something and when there is more demand than supply, there will always be people,
faking, whatever there is a market for.

Originally Posted by bluemagic

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That is my intuition as well; I'd love to see counterfeits from the ancient world.

Visit Winchester Cathedral.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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While some form of Gucci envy has existed in some form or another since we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, ever since Cartier invented the Le Must line, most of the "authentic" luxury brands are "fake" as well...forget about counterfeits.

I'm not hinging the entire argument on Dana Thomas's book, but there's a level of reality that most here probably (or should) feel uncomfortable about. I think the Devil really does wear Prada.
The Le Must line is somewhat interesting. Apparently it was created to help a slightly struggling Cartier realign their fortunes during the early '70s with a line of luxe, gold-colored--but never real gold-- personal accessories and such things.

Originally Posted by bluemagic

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That is my intuition as well; I'd love to see counterfeits from the ancient world.

If you've ever been to a museum with greek sculpture in it, you likely have. Many of the Greek statues we still have today are actually roman copies of greek statues. In Ancient times, there were entire workshops that cranked out copies. Of course, that doesn't really make them counterfeit in the true sense of the world, but they were relatively inexpensive replicas of the originals. In many cases, the originals were probably in bronze, which explains why so few remain, as the bronze would have been melted down and reused throughout the ages.

Originally Posted by hadamulletonce

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If the LV and flower are half under the strap anchor on the left it should match exactly on the right at well. This will hold true at all seams, top and bottom.

This is accurate but not 100% true. I have purchased genuine goods from an LV store where the pattern doesn't match 100%. Close, but not 100% at all times, if it matched on some of the goods it would impair the shape and function.

The Le Must line is somewhat interesting. Apparently it was created to help a slightly struggling Cartier realign their fortunes during the early '70s with a line of luxe, gold-colored--but never real gold-- personal accessories and such things.

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Well, you can chalk it all up to Robert Hocq and his little lighter. He had come up with a very nice idea for a well made gas cig lighter which he thought was a bit too expensive for his company to market. He decided to shop it off to the luxury jewelers in Paris. None of them were interested of course, as they would want nothing to do with a lowly cig lighter. Cartier decided to give it a try, and what was an insignificant accessory, "sparked" the whole Le Must line and turned them into the global powerhouse they are today, because it represented what was once a brand available only to royalty or the super wealthy, and became a brand "every man" could afford. Followed closely by pretty much every luxury brand on the planet. This is why every dolt on the planet wears D&G sunglasses or running shoes, and thinks they are being "upscale". As usual, we have been duped "royally".

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Well, you can chalk it all up to Robert Hocq and his little lighter. He had come up with a very nice idea for a well made gas cig lighter which he thought was a bit too expensive for his company to market. He decided to shop it off to the luxury jewelers in Paris. None of them were interested of course, as they would want nothing to do with a lowly cig lighter.

Cartier decided to give it a try, and what was an insignificant accessory, "sparked" the whole Le Must line and turned them into the global powerhouse they are today, because it represented what was once a brand available only to royalty or the super wealthy, and became a brand "every man" could afford. Followed closely by pretty much every luxury brand on the planet. This is why every dolt on the planet wears D&G sunglasses or running shoes, and thinks they are being "upscale".

As usual, we have been duped "royally".

Interesting that they were the "first" to do a luxury gas lighter as Alfred Dunhill likes to claim their Rollagas as the first luxury butane gas lighter.

Interestingly, Cartier and other jewelers did make lighters, but only in precious metals, and perhaps as a limited series or custom orders.

The first luxury goods were highly polished stone hand axes, which took hundreds of hours to make, these couldn't be counterfeited.

I agree, if you fast forward to the markets of Ninevah that top quality wine you're paying a premium for will likely have been diluted with a splash or two of the cheap stuff to increase margins...

Interesting that they were the "first" to do a luxury gas lighter as Alfred Dunhill likes to claim their Rollagas as the first luxury butane gas lighter.

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Well, Hocq invented the gas lighter in 1953 (the Dunhill came out later). It's not really my point...neither Silver Match nor Dunhill were jewelers (the point). And it was the Cartier that became the giant "must have" item, sparking massive world-wide interest in "luxury" branded accessories by the consumer masses, turning Cartier from a small speciallized jeweler into a massive global brand that later became part of a luxury branded conglomerate (which ironically included Dunhill).

The other major point was that it was done under license, which also became a massive boom for the "luxury" industry by the late 1970's (especially once fragrances came into play).

As for lighters...I have a Cartier...had a Dunhill...a very cool, ultra-thin titanium Porche Design from the early 80's...even the ergonomically perfect Dieter Rams table lighter from Braun. They all have the same thing in common...they're cool...expensive...and don't work worth a ****. I have simply gone back to the effortless Zippo (a copper Z-series one).

I agree, if you fast forward to the markets of Ninevah that top quality wine you're paying a premium for will likely have been diluted with a splash or two of the cheap stuff to increase margins...

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Well, I'd put that more in the "cheating" category...until the invention of the bourgeoisie that had both the time for leisure and the money to buy things, people did not stray much beyond their class...it was not socially acceptable anyhow....by either your own class or the one you were trying to imitate.

Even the "middle class" don't matter anymore, as anybody can have their little slice of so-called luxury...that's why the illegal cleaning lady on the bus carries a LV bag...doesn't matter if it's real or fake...it has the same effect on the status symbol.

Does the luxury brand conglomerate care if it's a fake...sure they do...cause it's not money in their pocket...does the luxury conglomerate care if the brand has been diluted to the point where it's not really "exclusive" anymore, or that little Japanese girls are slitting their wrists because they were teased at school for carrying last years LV bag?...of course not....it's all about the bottom line.

What does this all mean? I have no idea....I'm just as suckered as the rest of you...only I like to think I'm not quite as bad as to wear big in-your-face branded sunglasses or fakes.