Yellow Hook Appreciation Thread

[TM79]

I feel like I'll mess up the quote if I try to do it the real way but re: " To me it said that folks just either a) don't know or b) don't care what it costs to manufacture in the States. They want to LOOK like they care, but when it boils down to it, the majority of Americans don't, or can't."

Rob, I 100% agree.

I think a lot of people have idealistic thoughts and expressions but when it comes time to let their money do the talking, it tells a different story.

And I am perfectly fine with people needing to be budget conscious and thrifty - just don't say one thing and do another.

 

[NewYorkIslander]

While I got y'all here:

 

[clee1982]

Man I have to buy a tie from you for wasting your time reading my crap.

So people, opinions
Zegna clay cashmere or

Kiton clay cashmere linen

Would prefer on the thinner side, had one in similar color/texture from Drake but too thick to tie it nicely (or maybe I just have to learn how to tie better) so end up selling it

Ps 100% agree on your thing on made in Italy especially middle tier, my old colleague in London used to tell me the head of the clothing trade association equivalent in Florence used to be a ***********. Another thing is when I went to Scotland, a lot of the shops front in Edinborough were maned by Chinese, so whatever narrative to made in Scotland sweater is probably half truth these days.

 

[CanadaCal]

Zegna colour tone is nicer, but Kiton fabrics...

Tough one.

 

[hooker4186]



Thanks E. It's one of teh things that drew me to Epaulet as a customer. It helps that I was local, and meeting up with Mike and Adele wasn't an impossibility. Without a storefront I think that's harder, but I pride myself on being available all the time to my customers, whenever they need me.

Thank you for this. It's really important to me to treat my customers the way I'd want to be treated. Fairly. Epaulet taught me that from even before we started. His business model is simply terrific.

I also found myself drawing comparisons of YH to Epaulet as the feel is the same for both companies. I really enjoy and admire both for having a passion and a vision and chasing it from nothing.

The major attraction for me with YH (beyond the great pieces!), that it's a true labor of love. I have met Rob a few times and we've talked about all sorts of details on the process, the products, and the history of the company (starting on the kitchen table), not to mention the historical elements that I find interesting as a fellow Brooklyn resident. Even the openness here in discussing price models, challenges just operating the business etc. is something I see as valuable and admirable.

I've been following from the beginning and while I can't afford to buy as many pieces as I would like to, I have quite a few ties and shirts now and hope to slowly add more over time - in contrast to your buddy Rob, I'd rather have two YH's and wash than 5 from J Crew, that's a no-brainer!

 

[NewYorkIslander]



Man I have to buy a tie from you for wasting your time reading my crap.

So people, opinions
Zegna clay cashmere or

Kiton clay cashmere linen

Would prefer on the thinner side, had one in similar color/texture from Drake but too thick to tie it nicely (or maybe I just have to learn how to tie better) so end up selling it

Ps 100% agree on your thing on made in Italy especially middle tier, my old colleague in London used to tell me the head of the clothing trade association equivalent in Florence used to be a ***********. Another thing is when I went to Scotland, a lot of the shops front in Edinborough were maned by Chinese, so whatever narrative to made in Scotland sweater is probably half truth these days.

Thanks bud....the Kiton is much lighter, Zegna is more of a wintery tie (early Spring, like today in NYC).

I also found myself drawing comparisons of YH to Epaulet as the feel is the same for both companies. I really enjoy and admire both for having a passion and a vision and chasing it from nothing.

The major attraction for me with YH (beyond the great pieces!), that it's a true labor of love. I have met Rob a few times and we've talked about all sorts of details on the process, the products, and the history of the company (starting on the kitchen table), not to mention the historical elements that I find interesting as a fellow Brooklyn resident. Even the openness here in discussing price models, challenges just operating the business etc. is something I see as valuable and admirable.

I've been following from the beginning and while I can't afford to buy as many pieces as I would like to, I have quite a few ties and shirts now and hope to slowly add more over time - in contrast to your buddy Rob, I'd rather have two YH's and wash than 5 from J Crew, that's a no-brainer!

Mike has been incredibly influential in getting us going.

 

[Patrick R]

Quote:
I challenge you to rethink this. I think the perspective that is more likely to lead to success is "this is what we envisioned a segment of our customer base being." I am not part of that segment, but I am a customer, and I believe I am a valued one.

As I stated above, my decision to buy Yellow Hook products is not driven by them being made in the US. As a customer, I am not particularly concerned about where my products are made. I care about how I feel about them. Today I am wearing shoes made in France, pants made in the US, a belt made in Italy, a shirt made in the US, a shirt jacket made in Japan from US fabric, a watch made in Germany, etc.

This is a quick read and might be of interest to you: https://www.amazon.com/Brand-Gap-Distance-Business-Strategy/dp/0321348109. One of the key points made in the book is that your brand is not what you say it is, but what your customers say it is. From my perspective, with respect to YH, the brand underlying your products is: (1) you; (2) your passion; and (3) your aesthetic choices. For me, the only reason it matters that your products are made in the US is because it matters to YOU. I am buying into your passion. I am buying into your brand and, to me, MIA is only a portion of your brand (though I recognize that it is far more important to you).

You have a thoughtful and responsive community here that can help you see your own business from the customer perspective. I would take the opportunity to engage (as you always do) and listen (as you always do) and think about what your business looks like from each of our perspectives. You will see that your customer base is likely made up of a few different segments of purchasers, each caring about something different.

I personally care a lot about supporting small businesses run by people passionate about doing something meaningful. But I also need to get something out of it. If it is a local farm passionately growing the best tomatoes I can find, I will gladly pay more to buy a food I enjoy from a company I am happy to support. But if that farm were growing cauliflower, no matter how much I would like to support the business, it just isn't going to be something I buy.

For me, the first step into the door as a customer is whether I want (or need) the product being sold. Then it is an evaluation of whether I can get an equivalent product from another source and, if so, what are the comparative prices and what are the intangibles related to the business. Then, amongst the various reasonably fungible goods/companies is there one that I will feel better about supporting.

Applying that to Yellow Hook, the draw for me is primarily your products. I have to see something I want/need (and as @FrankCowperwood said, there aren't a lot customers (any?) buying YH products out of need). Then I think about are there other sources of reasonably fungible products. Your ties are really well made, appropriately sized for me, and attractive materials and patterns. But I can say the same about 5+ other tie businesses. The times I put my money down have always been when I see a fabric/pattern I don't believe I can find anywhere else. I think, "this is my only chance to get THIS and THIS is what I want." I am not buying something that I like less than a product I can get elsewhere simply because it is MIA or because it is from you. I only buy when the product is what I want.

The branding aspects of the business (the MIA goods, the passionate small business owner, the story around the development of the product, the source of the fabric), are all of the things that support my purchase decision. They are all the reasons I follow the brand. They are all the reasons you get my eyes when you launch a new product. They help me feel inspired to talk about the brand, share the links with friends, tell the coworker than compliments my tie where it came from and why it is unique. But not a single one of them is going to primarily drive the purchase decision. The purchase decision is "is this a unique product that I want that I can't get from another brand I prefer to support." From my perspective, you have nailed a top tier position with respect to "who are the brands I prefer to support." But it won't translate to purchases without unique products that I want.


Those thoughts may be more stream of conscious and scattered than I hoped, but I had limited time and wanted to continue the conversation.

 

[CLTesquire]

Man I have to buy a tie from you for wasting your time reading my crap.

So people, opinions
Zegna clay cashmere or

Kiton clay cashmere linen

Would prefer on the thinner side, had one in similar color/texture from Drake but too thick to tie it nicely (or maybe I just have to learn how to tie better) so end up selling it

Ps 100% agree on your thing on made in Italy especially middle tier, my old colleague in London used to tell me the head of the clothing trade association equivalent in Florence used to be a ***********. Another thing is when I went to Scotland, a lot of the shops front in Edinborough were maned by Chinese, so whatever narrative to made in Scotland sweater is probably half truth these days.

I preferred the color of the Zegna but purchased the Kiton b/c I wanted something more spring-ish in terms of fabric (i.e. I wanted some linen in there instead of all cashmere).

It's a really nice tie and really nice fabric.

 

[CLTesquire]

I also want to say this because in my diatribe about people not caring for their neighbors anymore, I didn't express my thanks for YH and companies like them. I really do care about small companies like YH that have a great story and make awesome products. They deserve to be supported and I really hope you find all the success you hope to find.

@NewYorkIslander I started a jury trial this morning. There are few things as unnerving as a lawyer as getting in front of a jury for a case. In preparation you find yourself obsessing over everything, including what you wear. I chose this tie that I just purchased from you for Day 1 of the trial:



That's how much I trust and enjoy your products.

I'm probably wearing the navy Atari Dots tie you did last year tomorrow for Day 2.

 

[ericgereghty]

Considering that tie is now sold out, you can color me jealous

 

[clee1982]

all right got the kiton! looking forward to my first YH tie.

 

[Patrick R]

I also want to say this because in my diatribe about people not caring for their neighbors anymore, I didn't express my thanks for YH and companies like them. I really do care about small companies like YH that have a great story and make awesome products. They deserve to be supported and I really hope you find all the success you hope to find.

@NewYorkIslander I started a jury trial this morning. There are few things as unnerving as a lawyer as getting in front of a jury for a case. In preparation you find yourself obsessing over everything, including what you wear. I chose this tie that I just purchased from you for Day 1 of the trial:

That's how much I trust and enjoy your products.

I'm probably wearing the navy Atari Dots tie you did last year tomorrow for Day 2.

Looks fantastic. I had that in my cart last night, fell asleep, and when I woke up, it was gone.

 

[NewYorkIslander]

 Incredibly helpful and insightful. I'll definitely check out that book....and you're right..."part of my target customer" is exactly how I need to be thinking.

I preferred the color of the Zegna but purchased the Kiton b/c I wanted something more spring-ish in terms of fabric (i.e. I wanted some linen in there instead of all cashmere). It's a really nice tie and really nice fabric.

I also want to say this because in my diatribe about people not caring for their neighbors anymore, I didn't express my thanks for YH and companies like them. I really do care about small companies like YH that have a great story and make awesome products. They deserve to be supported and I really hope you find all the success you hope to find. @NewYorkIslander I started a jury trial this morning. There are few things as unnerving as a lawyer as getting in front of a jury for a case. In preparation you find yourself obsessing over everything, including what you wear. I chose this tie that I just purchased from you for Day 1 of the trial: That's how much I trust and enjoy your products. I'm probably wearing the navy Atari Dots tie you did last year tomorrow for Day 2.

Go get em! Looks GREAT. I was on a jury twice...the nerves of both sets of attorneys were palpable. Especially the first one, considering it was a murder trial.

all right got the kiton! looking forward to my first YH tie.

You're going to love it! Enjoy and let me know your thoughts once it arrives!

 

[NewYorkIslander]

There's a lot of drawback to keeping everything in the US, but one benefit we have is that we really can oversee every aspect of the production from start to finish of what we make. That's fairly obvious, but what may not be is the access we have to the end bolts of fabric we make for almost ALL of our ties and some of our specialty shirting, like the Loro Piana Italian Speckled Denim. We get almost all of those (including the upcoming Loro Piana Summer Linens) from a Brooklyn Wholesaler who travels to Europe a few times a year to buy extra fabric in bulk. It's how we're able to get the Kiton and Loro Piana stuff. Once they're done making the sport coats/suits/and trousers from the stuff, they're usually left with a bit extra (sometimes it's as much as 50 meters, but usually its MUCH less than that) and depending on how much is left, and how much we take, we can bang out shirts at $150, and ties for around $125. I'm not so sure if that is an American thing or a New York thing, as since there are so many aspiring designers here, that kind of stuff is needed. Though, as I mentioned earlier, despite the small yardages, we now are facing competition for these pieces from some of those Chinese companies manufacturing high end stuff there. Even Frank (at Ercoles) has turned to China for his High End MTM Program. That business seems to have taken off for him, and even driven the price higher on his Made in Brooklyn stuff.

Minimum wage increase does worry me. Speaking with Mike (our shirtmaker in NJ) he worries about what that could mean for his pricing. As is you guys know the cost on the standard shirts, the Barber Shirts cost me 67.50, which I really had to negotiate him down, as he was dead set on $75. Add the high end metal buttons and the cost of the chambray, which is terrific, and the story on it is even better, and its bound to get astronomical. Masterson Shirts are the only other company I know of using Ryan at Huston, but the stuff they do is incredible. They remind me of us, but weavers and not retailers.

http://www.hustontextile.com/

 

[clee1982]

No doubt time to consumer is better if you make it here (also why some Chinese companies are moving here too). A bit surprised that minimal wage increase would hit you guys that hard, I suppose the guy who just sew the button doesn't makes that much, and that's where minimal wage increase will hit?