white tie with DJ

[JLibourel]

Manton, or anybody with a knowledge of recent sartorial history, when did the dread notch-lapel DJ resurface? I get the sense it's been back for quite a while now. For instance, a book put out by Esquire entitled Good Grooming for Men in 1969 cites the notch lapel as being appropriate for a DJ. They even having a drawing of one. However, the other particulars are rather cringe-worthy, e.g., flapped hacking pockets!

Amy Vanderbildt in a 1967 edition of her handbook of etiquette cites the notch lapel as being correct for a DJ, but I have the sense she may have been a little dim on the nice distinction betwee a notch and peak lapel.

 

[Manton]

I started becoming aware of the DJ in the mid '80s and the notch was around. This was California so maybe we were more ignorant than most. I've never known a world without it. At an even in Manhattan on Wednesday, I saw tons of them.

 

[eg1]

For me, a white tie is always tainted in my youthful memory from the time my mother bought me (and both my younger brothers) infelicitously large, white velvet clip-ons in the deepest, darkest early 70s ...

Originally Posted by Manton

I actually have all the gear for white tie except an actual tailcoat. I have had occasion to wear it about half a dozen times over more than 20 years. Rented the tails each time. Felt like a scrounge but I knew that buying was a waste of money.

I should be so lucky. I have not been invited to even one black tie event, let alone numerous white tie events, in my entire life.

Such is the fate of the provincial, eh?

 

[Bounder]

Originally Posted by Will C.

Very insightful. However, frock coats were not worn with knee breeches.
Fine. I guess it will have to be the toga then. Does anyone know what shoes are appropriate? I was thinking #8 shell.

 

[Will C.]

Originally Posted by Bounder

Fine. I guess it will have to be the toga then. Does anyone know what shoes are appropriate? I was thinking #8 shell.
Woven-leather sandals?... whatever suits you best.

 

[Will C.]

I just scanned over this thread again and realised what I'd missed. Reagan speechwriter faults Obama for lack of sartorial savoir-faire in the well-precedented white tie / DJ combo, while interpreting Bush as an example of old-money nonchalance with regard to clothes (he's a 'rugged outdoorsman' just like Prince Phillip, with a proper Ivy League indifference to fashion). Obama is the arriviste, and Bush is the preppie who can't be bothered with elegance because he knows it so well. And the Reagan speechwriter had no ulterior motives in presenting this view, none at all.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Will C.

I just scanned over this thread again and realised what I'd missed. Reagan speechwriter faults Obama for lack of sartorial savoir-faire in the well-precedented white tie / DJ combo, while interpreting Bush as an example of old-money nonchalance with regard to clothes (he's a 'rugged outdoorsman' just like Prince Phillip, with a proper Ivy League indifference to fashion). Obama is the arriviste, and Bush is the preppie who can't be bothered with elegance because he knows it so well. And the Reagan speechwriter had no ulterior motives in presenting this view, none at all.

Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Will C.]

Originally Posted by Manton

Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Ok.

 

[Manton]

no prob

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Well, Nick, when you lament that your work "will never meet with much US approval (even acknowledgement of its existence)" mightn't the fact that your work is Anglocentric to point of self-parody contribute in some small measure to this state of affairs?

Nonetheless, I did enjoy both your books greatly.

Hee hee! They are all meant to be in the category of humour! The first one derived from an occasion when I was slyly typing out my ideal wardrode (with notes), and my Good Lady, passing by, snarked "You should publish that!". I thought : "That's a thought!" and sent the draft to an agent who, (amazingly), liked it and he went on to sell the idea to a publisher, which has gone on to publish Book II and is going on tp publish the forthcoming Book III. It is true that they are Anglocentric; but then, I am British - and there we are! I am very pleased that you liked the books. they represent my ideas on things and, without fear or favour, state a case for passing things.

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Manton, or anybody with a knowledge of recent sartorial history, when did the dread notch-lapel DJ resurface? I get the sense it's been back for quite a while now. For instance, a book put out by Esquire entitled Good Grooming for Men in 1969 cites the notch lapel as being appropriate for a DJ. They even having a drawing of one. However, the other particulars are rather cringe-worthy, e.g., flapped hacking pockets! Amy Vanderbildt in a 1967 edition of her handbook of etiquette cites the notch lapel as being correct for a DJ, but I have the sense she may have been a little dim on the nice distinction betwee a notch and peak lapel.
There's a picture of Jack Warner in a step lapel DJ/tux and black tie with white vest here (Oscar night for My Fair Lady, in 1964) : http://www.gonemovies.com/www/MyWebF...LadyCukor2.jpg Part of the confusion arises from the use of 'notch' lapel and 'step' lapel. As I have said before, a notch lapel is, strictly, any lapel with a ****, distinguishing it from a shawl lapel. The Harrison Court Guides make this reasonably clear.

 

[Kent Wang]

Originally Posted by Will C.

I just scanned over this thread again and realised what I'd missed. Reagan speechwriter faults Obama for lack of sartorial savoir-faire in the well-precedented white tie / DJ combo, while interpreting Bush as an example of old-money nonchalance with regard to clothes (he's a 'rugged outdoorsman' just like Prince Phillip, with a proper Ivy League indifference to fashion). Obama is the arriviste, and Bush is the preppie who can't be bothered with elegance because he knows it so well. And the Reagan speechwriter had no ulterior motives in presenting this view, none at all.

You read too much into this.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by clubman

Hee hee! They are all meant to be in the category of humour! The first one derived from an occasion when I was slyly typing out my ideal wardrode (with notes), and my Good Lady, passing by, snarked "You should publish that!". I thought : "That's a thought!" and sent the draft to an agent who, (amazingly), liked it and he went on to sell the idea to a publisher, which has gone on to publish Book II and is going on tp publish the forthcoming Book III. It is true that they are Anglocentric; but then, I am British - and there we are! I am very pleased that you liked the books. they represent my ideas on things and, without fear or favour, state a case for passing things.

What is Book III going to be about? Book II has already started me smoking my pipes more often!

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

What is Book III going to be about? Book II has already started me smoking my pipes more often!

Book III is sub-titled "A Short Guide To The Sporting Life" and is about Town and country sports: drinking; shootin', huntin', fishin', hawkin', hackin'; cards; dancing; cheese-rolling; hurling; rose-growing and smelilng - and even a little bit about the first steam passenger railway: another oddball book, for oddballs! Just get aboard and enjoy the ride!!!!!!

 

[JLibourel]

^Are you going to include ferreting? I suspect at least as many Britons engage in that pursuit as they do hawking, which of course is slightly different from falconry, the latter being practiced by a falconer, the former by an austringer.

(And I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first time the word "austringer" has been used in the history of SF!)