What do you think of Ralph lauren compared to Brioni, Kiton?

[Artisan Fan]

It's impossible to idenfity suits from pictures? The shoulders are completely different and since you've owned all of them it should be easy for you to identify which suit is which, no?

It's not the same. Seeing the roll in person is key to looking at it in a 3D way.

 

[Pariolino]

Originally Posted by A Harris

Random thoughts:

My personal opinion is that once one gets to the level of a Saint Andrews suit, which is to say canvased, handpicked lapels, handsewn buttonholes, any claims of 'more handmade' are basically hype. (With the exception of Oxxfords hand padded lapels that is.) There are differences, but they are subtle and more a matter of technique/philosophy than they are of superiority. Maybe Kiton has some extra handstitching in the armhole, but I doubt it. Keep in mind that I'm no tailor, but I have taken most of these jackets apart for a closer look.

Also, I think ALL these brands are probably more accurately described as hand finished rather than handmade.

Thank you. Does anybody disagree with this?

Also, can somebody clarify whether the lapel roll on a Kiton or St. Andrews jacket is done by machine or by hand.

 

[Artisan Fan]

Originally Posted by Pariolino

Thank you. Does anybody disagree with this?

Also, can somebody clarify whether the lapel roll on a Kiton or St. Andrews jacket is done by machine or by hand.

Kiton lapel rolls are done by hand. The stitching in the lapel is not as much as Oxxford but I can't tell where it matters frankly. My Oxxfords have less roll than my Kitons and I suppose Kiton just chooses to put the hand labor in elsewhere.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

It's impossible to idenfity suits from pictures? The shoulders are completely different and since you've owned all of them it should be easy for you to identify which suit is which, no?

If the lapel roll is "obviously worse" it should also be easy for you to point out exactly what is wrong with the lapel roll of the Saint Andrews.

The same goes for Jon, since differences in drape should easily be identifiable from pictures.

Maybe, if you post pictures of every detail, and clearly, well taken pictures at that, I maybe able to identify some distinguishing features, but if you post pictures in the same manner that Manton posted pictures of his Kabbaz shirts (in which he at least admitted that the quality of the picture was abysmal) then there is no way to tell. Furthermore, like everything else that is in 3 dimensions, a 2 dimensional representation is hardly the same. If you don't believe me, take a look at a Vass banana last shoe in real life then take a look of the same shoe in a picture.

FYI: I'm not a huge Kiton fan, personally I would rather purchase an Attolini jacket than a Kiton jacket, but to each his own.

Jon.

 

[Pariolino]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Kiton lapel rolls are done by hand. The stitching in the lapel is not as much as Oxxford but I can't tell where it matters frankly. My Oxxfords have less roll than my Kitons and I suppose Kiton just chooses to put the hand labor in elsewhere.
I'm sorry, as a big guy maybe I am dense too

I always thought that the roll of the lapel was the pad stitching. If Kiton doesn't hand pad their lapels, how can they put the roll in by hand? Is there part of the process that I am not understanding?

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

+1. Just put on a Kiton jacket and you will see how much better it is than an RLPL jacket. Using fit alone, it is leagues ahead.

Jon.

Wouldn't that be largely dependent on one's body type/shape?

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Wouldn't that be largely dependent on one's body type/shape?

Well, I am not simply basing what I have posted based on my experiences, but the experiences of other people I know and who have tired on RLPL garments (those made by SA, not CB) and Kiton garments. From their and mine experiences, Kiton simply fits better off-the-peg.

Jon.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

It's not the same. Seeing the roll in person is key to looking at it in a 3D way.
So basically you're saying you can't tell the difference between a Brioni, Kiton, and Saint Andrews jacket by looking at pictures. Thanks, that's exactly what I was after. A number of posters have already commented in this thread or via private message about the lapel roll of the jackets, and seemed to have no difficulty in determining what they thought the correct differences are. Same goes for Jon. Drape is something easily visible from pictures. Completely ignoring the drape and lapel roll issue, the shoulder shape differences between Kiton, Saint Andrews, and Brioni should be patently obvious.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

So basically you're saying you can't tell the difference between a Brioni, Kiton, and Saint Andrews jacket by looking at pictures. Thanks, that's exactly what I was after. Same goes for Jon. Drape is something easily visible from pictures.

Did you read my post? You can't tell anything from your shoddy pictures. As well, you are standing in the most unnatural pose ever. How can you possibly want us to comment on drape if you are standing so upright that it looks like one of the seams of the jacket(s) is going to rip.

As well, I assume all these garments were already tailored? If so, we are no longer discussing what a suit is like when a person tries it on, sans alterations.

Jon.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Did you read my post? You can’t tell anything from your shoddy pictures. As well, you are standing in the most unnatural pose ever. How can you possibly want us to comment on drape if you are standing so upright that it looks like one of the seams of the jacket(s) is going to rip. As well, I assume all these garments were already tailored? If so, we are no longer discussing what a suit is like when a person tries it on, sans alterations. Jon.
Determining fit off the peg is going to be dependent on body type and only body type. Not all of those jackets are tailored, in fact, only one of them has been, they're essentially all RTW. Also, the lapel and drape are easily visible from the pictures in question. I'm not asking you to determine how much handwork there is on the jacket from the picture, but simple distinguishing characteristics that you should be able to see even from a scan of a newspaper article of someone wearing the suit in question. Stop making excuses and either admit you don't know what the **** you're talking about or STFU.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Pariolino

I'm sorry, as a big guy maybe I am dense too

I always thought that the roll of the lapel was the pad stitching. If Kiton doesn't hand pad their lapels, how can they put the roll in by hand? Is there part of the process that I am not understanding?
no, you are understanding correctly. the roll of kiton is put in by machine. they do it very well, but by machine.

 

[Artisan Fan]

So basically you're saying you can't tell the difference between a Brioni, Kiton, and Saint Andrews jacket by looking at pictures. Thanks, that's exactly what I was after.

No and stop making baseless allegations. This is a game of fine details and low rez, crappy pics are not sufficient.

 

[Artisan Fan]

the roll of kiton is put in by machine. they do it very well, but by machine.

Incorrect. There is handwork in there Matt.

There is also hand stitching on the lapel. It's a mostly hand driven process even if they don't do multiple stitches like Oxxford.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

No and stop making baseless allegations. This is a game of fine details and low rez, crappy pics are not sufficient.

You can't identify the SHOULDER SHAPE of Brioni versus Saint Andrews versus Kiton from pictures? Are you implying that the shoulders look pretty similar and it's a game of fine details?

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

Determining fit off the peg is going to be dependent on body type and only body type.

Not all of those jackets are tailored, in fact, only one of them has been, they're essentially all RTW. Also, the lapel and drape are easily visible from the pictures in question. I'm not asking you to determine how much handwork there is on the jacket from the picture, but simple distinguishing characteristics that you should be able to see even from a scan of a newspaper article of someone wearing the suit in question. Stop making excuses and either admit you don't know what the **** you're talking about or STFU.

No, it also determined by the cut of the jacket, if not every jacket on earth would have the exact same fit. I'm sorry you can't admit that the pics suck, but if you have the ability to different between one and another you have a better eye than I.

Jon.