What did you eat last night for dinner?

[binge]

Veal schnitzel with green onion & pepper gravy, braised red cabbage and roasted red potato.

 

[binge]

Second verse...much like the first; but this time with pork, more cabbage and no potatoes.

 

[Bounder]

I guess I am a heretic on the whole sous vide steak thing because I have had a completely different experience.

Sous vide has some impressive advantages but it has some real disadvantages as well. It can cook a steak to a precise temperature with near-perfect uniformity throughout. It is also very forgiving in terms of cooking times.

But I find the flavor of a sous vide steak oddly unsatisfying. The flavor of a sous vide steak seems "diluted." I assume this is because the steak retains all its moisture during cooking, unlike a traditionally-cooked steak which loses quite a bit. "Dry cooking" seems to concentrate the meat's natural flavor in a way that sous vide does not.

This is not that noticeable if you are planning on saucing. But in terms of old-school meaty flavor, a sous vide steak is a weak imitation of a "dry cooked" steak.

It's not really surprising that two such dissimilar methods should produce dissimilar results, which brings me to my next point: WTH are you people doing cooking 2" prime rib eyes in a sous vide?!?

Sous vide excels at doing incredible things with tough cuts. That does not include rib eyes, and certainly not prime rib eyes. They are as tender as you could possibly want right out of the bag. The sous vide process ads nothing and, IMO, takes a lot away, in terms of flavor.

For a steak (or a roast) that thick, you can create and almost perfectly consistent, perfectly cooked steak with an oven and a digital thermometer. Sear the outside quickly, stick your digital thermometer in the middle and then put it in a 200F oven. Pull it out when the center temperature is about a degree less than your desired temperature and wait five minutes.

If you want a real experience, go get a chuck roast and cook it sous vide at 130F for 8 hours or so. You end up with something that could not possibly exist in nature. It comes out extremely flavorful and elegantly tender. I've experimented with different temperatures and cooking times and you get surprisingly different, yet consistently good, results with this cut.

 

[Piobaire]

So I'm going to guess you don't let your steak rest when cooked in a traditional method and attempt to get all the juices you can to drain out to "concentrate" the flavour? Do you squeeze it with a utensil to get all the juices out you can while cooking?

 

[Bounder]



So I'm going to guess you don't let your steak rest when cooked in a traditional method and attempt to get all the juices you can to drain out to "concentrate" the flavour? Do you squeeze it with a utensil to get all the juices out you can while cooking?

Uh, no. This is a bit of a false dichotomy, isn't it? It's like suggesting that if you think cooking your steak to 130F is good, cooking it to 230F must be even better. My observation that sous vide steaks are less flavorful is empirical. My theory as to why is just that: a theory, albeit one that does make a certain amount of sense. The idea that removing water concentrates flavor is not particularly wacky. Most sauces use this technique. When meat cooks, it dries out in the sense that water evaporates. I'm sure some fat does, too, but fat has a much higher boiling point than water and, so, the water evaporates much faster. But if you squeeze meat, everything comes out, not just the water.

 

[venividivicibj]

This is a bit of a false dichotomy, isn't it? It's like suggesting that if you think cooking your steak to 130F is good, cooking it to 230F must be even better.

**** yeah, you gotta sear it the inside too

 

[Piobaire]



Uh, no. This is a bit of a false dichotomy, isn't it? It's like suggesting that if you think cooking your steak to 130F is good, cooking it to 230F must be even better. My observation that sous vide steaks are less flavorful is empirical. My theory as to why is just that: a theory, albeit one that does make a certain amount of sense. The idea that removing water concentrates flavor is not particularly wacky. Most sauces use this technique. When meat cooks, it dries out in the sense that water evaporates. I'm sure some fat does, too, but fat has a much higher boiling point than water and, so, the water evaporates much faster. But if you squeeze meat, everything comes out, not just the water.

I think you're wrong in that there are different flavours in play and you're not disambiguating. Less "meaty?" I'd disagree with that. I don't think any cooking method under discussion concentrates the meat flavour more than sous vide. Now, flavours related to charring/grilling/Maillard? Yes, those can certainly be lacking, but that's going to be up to the cook and how he/she finishes the meat. Back to fat...that's where your flavour is. Any cooking method that renders out fat renders out flavour. I mean, fat content is largely how meat gets graded. Nothing will preserve the fat content like sous vide. So a sous vide ribeye that has been properly crusted, IMO, yields the most flavour.

 

[Bounder]

Uh, no. This is a bit of a false dichotomy, isn't it? It's like suggesting that if you think cooking your steak to 130F is good, cooking it to 230F must be even better. My observation that sous vide steaks are less flavorful is empirical. My theory as to why is just that: a theory, albeit one that does make a certain amount of sense. The idea that removing water concentrates flavor is not particularly wacky. Most sauces use this technique. When meat cooks, it dries out in the sense that water evaporates. I'm sure some fat does, too, but fat has a much higher boiling point than water and, so, the water evaporates much faster. But if you squeeze meat, everything comes out, not just the water.

I think you're wrong in that there are different flavours in play and you're not disambiguating. Less "meaty?" I'd disagree with that. I don't think any cooking method under discussion concentrates the meat flavour more than sous vide. Now, flavours related to charring/grilling/Maillard? Yes, those can certainly be lacking, but that's going to be up to the cook and how he/she finishes the meat. Back to fat...that's where your flavour is. Any cooking method that renders out fat renders out flavour. I mean, fat content is largely how meat gets graded. Nothing will preserve the fat content like sous vide. So a sous vide ribeye that has been properly crusted, IMO, yields the most flavour.

First, fat is only one flavor component in beef. There are a lot of different things that give beef its flavor. Second, a quick google confirms that I'm not the only person who has observed that all else being equal, sous vide steaks are less flavorful. https://forums.egullet.org/topic/14...ender-and-just-right-but-flavors-are-missing/ Here, somebody did a side-by-side comparison. For some reason, they cooked the sous vide steak slightly more . . . maybe they were worried about food poisoning. http://cookfearless.com/sous-vide-vs-grilled-steak/ I challenge you to try a version of this yourself. Take a whole tri-tip -- I have found this particularly noticeable with tri-tip -- and cut it in half. Sous vide half of it and cook the other half conventionally. Prepare them simply, just with salt and pepper, cook them both to the same internal temperature and compare the results. I have done this and you will find that the taste is very noticeably different.

 

[Piobaire]



First, fat is only one flavor component in beef. There are a lot of different things that give beef its flavor.

Second, a quick google confirms that I'm not the only person who has observed that all else being equal, sous vide steaks are less flavorful.

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/14...ender-and-just-right-but-flavors-are-missing/

Here, somebody did a side-by-side comparison. For some reason, they cooked the sous vide steak slightly more . . . maybe they were worried about food poisoning.

http://cookfearless.com/sous-vide-vs-grilled-steak/

I challenge you to try a version of this yourself. Take a whole tri-tip -- I have found this particularly noticeable with tri-tip -- and cut it in half. Sous vide half of it and cook the other half conventionally. Prepare them simply, just with salt and pepper, cook them both to the same internal temperature and compare the results. I have done this and you will find that the taste is very noticeably different.

I scanned your first link quickly. Your original post spoke of "diluted" and less of a "meaty flavour." I suggested there was no dilution of meaty flavour and you were not separating out other flavours like those involved with Maillard, fat content, etc. Your link immediately launches into talk of Maillard, fat content, etc. and also brings up something I was going to, namely texture. We have talked about texture here regarding over-long sous vide before.

TL;DNR = that link says what I said.

 

[Bounder]

First, fat is only one flavor component in beef. There are a lot of different things that give beef its flavor. Second, a quick google confirms that I'm not the only person who has observed that all else being equal, sous vide steaks are less flavorful. https://forums.egullet.org/topic/14...ender-and-just-right-but-flavors-are-missing/ Here, somebody did a side-by-side comparison. For some reason, they cooked the sous vide steak slightly more . . . maybe they were worried about food poisoning. http://cookfearless.com/sous-vide-vs-grilled-steak/ I challenge you to try a version of this yourself. Take a whole tri-tip -- I have found this particularly noticeable with tri-tip -- and cut it in half. Sous vide half of it and cook the other half conventionally. Prepare them simply, just with salt and pepper, cook them both to the same internal temperature and compare the results. I have done this and you will find that the taste is very noticeably different.

I scanned your first link quickly. Your original post spoke of "diluted" and less of a "meaty flavour." I suggested there was no dilution of meaty flavour and you were not separating out other flavours like those involved with Maillard, fat content, etc. Your link immediately launches into talk of Maillard, fat content, etc. and also brings up something I was going to, namely texture. We have talked about texture here regarding over-long sous vide before. TL;DNR = that link says what I said.

Pio, the point of that post was that I'm not the only person to think that sous vide steaks are not as flavorful. Yes, other people, like you, are positing why. But I do not think that it has anything to do with how you sear the outside. You get the same effect if you sous vide a large roast. I have even prepared a couple of rib roasts sous vide and the problem is the same. Nothing you can do to the outside of a 5 lb rib roast is going to make the slightest bit of difference to the flavor in the middle. Since you are being a pain, I did a little more research. Interestingly, here's someone who is describing a similar problem (though she characterizes it differently) and suggesting the opposite hypothesis. She thinks sous vide steaks are less juicy and does an impressively wonkish experiment to prove it. http://www.beyondsalmon.com/2011/06/why-sous-vide-sucks.html My personal observation is that sous vide steaks just aren't as tasty. I am not the only person who thinks this. Why don't you take the Tri-Tip Challenge and see for yourself?

 

[sugarbutch]

Tri-tip challenge sounds like something for the cuck thread...

 

[Piobaire]



Pio, the point of that post was that I'm not the only person to think that sous vide steaks are not as flavorful. Yes, other people, like you, are positing why. But I do not think that it has anything to do with how you sear the outside. You get the same effect if you sous vide a large roast. I have even prepared a couple of rib roasts sous vide and the problem is the same. Nothing you can do to the outside of a 5 lb rib roast is going to make the slightest bit of difference to the flavor in the middle. Since you are being a pain, I did a little more research. Interestingly, here's someone who is describing a similar problem (though she characterizes it differently) and suggesting the opposite hypothesis. She thinks sous vide steaks are less juicy and does an impressively wonkish experiment to prove it. http://www.beyondsalmon.com/2011/06/why-sous-vide-sucks.html My personal observation is that sous vide steaks just aren't as tasty. I am not the only person who thinks this. Why don't you take the Tri-Tip Challenge and see for yourself?

LOL, so to stand by your opinion you are now willing to accept a write up that shows the opposite of what you initially proposed? Now that's being a pain. Look, de gustibus non est disputandum, so whatever you like you like. You put it out there the flavour was "diluted" and less "meaty." I suggested a few other things were the cause, you post something that supports my few other things, and want to change over to those other things now it seems...except now less juicy too, when at first it was too juicy and diluted flavour? I'd never sous vide a tri-tip so why would I bother doing that? I've done a crap ton of steak cooking, in various ways, and I've had multiple guests tell me my sous vide ribeyes that are pan seared, are the best steaks they've ever had in their lives. Given I also feel they are at least pretty damn good, I'm happy with that. You do what you want and be happy with that too. I only took issue as I was trying to help you disentangle some things and your link agreed with my thoughts. From there you just had to keep reframing, etc. until you felt somehow "more right" then me and that's cool too. Enjoy your meat. No ****.

 

[venividivicibj]

BTW, on your second link
"

The conclusion? Generally inconclusive"
Goes on
"the conventional steak had more flavor, arguably some of it imparted from the caramelizing factor from the fire...was finished on the grill, instead of a crazy-hot iron skillet" So... possibly the flavor came from two different finishing techniques as well, and not the actual conentional vs sous vide​

also - "What if [the sous vide], too, had been cooked medium rare?"​

so you have two different finishing techniques, two different levels of doneness, and the author still says 'generally inconclusive'.​

 

[otc]

That beyond salmon link has some questionable measurement conditions.

Steak A and Steak B were supposedly both cooked to 131 and then seared.

Steak A was then measured at a 130 interior temp and Steak B was measured at 137.

I mean, if you can't even get the core temp of multiple sous vide steaks within a degree or two...how much do I trust your fraction of a percent measurements of other things?

 

[SirReveller]

Pasta, KD garnish...garlic tater.