Thinking about law school? Read this.

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by oman

i think he means people who are on the fence about becoming lawyers
Actually, what he means is the ABA uses this tactic to chase marginally performing people away from law. We all know this is wrong, however, as the legal profession is full of marginally performing people. Basically, just like most professions.

 

[magogian12345]

Law School <--- Just say "no."

 

[Agnacious]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

From what I'm reading here, aren't most lawyers "marginal people"? Or is that, marginally people?

Well, that's not fair. There was a guy here once who appeared somewhat human. Oh no wait, I remember, that was my neighbors dog.

Originally Posted by oman

i think he means people who are on the fence about becoming lawyers

Sure those people, but over the fence a bit also. I think many become dissatisfied with their jobs and think law school is the answer without any real passion for the field. Why not discourage them from entering in the first place. With the expense of the education, monetarily and emotionally, most will not readily admit they have no real passion and find a job doing something in the law field.

edit: my slow typing was overtaken with the correct meaning. (Piobaire)

 

[nerdykarim]

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

Dude, I know students who PAID to work during the summer, i.e. "externship for credit," which the school charges tuition for.

Yep. 2Ls at my school [UGA] are doing this. I can't believe it.

 

[z7f9q]

Originally Posted by nerdykarim

Yep. 2Ls at my school [UGA] are doing this. I can't believe it.

That blows my mind. I've never heard of this in Canada.

 

[Kyoung05]

Originally Posted by nerdykarim

Yep. 2Ls at my school [UGA] are doing this. I can't believe it.
Seriously, and it looks like it's becoming more commonplace/accepted. Look at this ****.... Jobless 1L and 2L Students Offered Program Modeled on Summer Jobs Students are basically paying $8,250 to work a fake job at school for the summer...WTF.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Actually, what he means is the ABA uses this tactic to chase marginally performing people away from law. We all know this is wrong, however, as the legal profession is full of marginally performing people. Basically, just like most professions.
Pretty much what I was thinking.

Originally Posted by magogian12345

Law School <--- Just say "no."

That's the great thing about SF -- plenty of people who know better than you what you want out of life, or at least what you should want.

 

[erdawe]

Sp they're trapped by their descision to go to school in the current market, compounded by not finding opportunities for expereince? Leads one to feel compelled (falsely?) to try to &quot;improve&quot; their situation by paying for experience further. They're 'investing' in their future. It's quite the bizzare consumeristic idea.

**I am not graduated, currently addenting, or planning to attend law school. So, I'd love for others to point out statement flaws here. I find thewhole thing interesting, and rather disconserting.

 

[v.freeman]

If it isn't T14, it's a TTT.

 

[BBSLM]

Originally Posted by Agnacious

I have been reading about the imminent demise of the legal profession for 25 years. Sometimes I think it is perpetrated by the ABA to keep the marginal people out of the profession. I know tinfoil hat ****.

What incentive would the ABA have to keep anyone out of the profession? Why wouldnt it just not accredit TTTs like Phoenix, Charleston, and just about every diploma mill outside of t50?

 

[BBSLM]

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

Seriously, and it looks like it's becoming more commonplace/accepted. Look at this ****....

Jobless 1L and 2L Students Offered Program Modeled on Summer Jobs

Students are basically paying $8,250 to work a fake job at school for the summer...WTF.

This reminds me of Dook's Bridge-to-Practice program.

 

[rjakapeanut]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Let me give you some unsolicited, off-the-cuff, and possibly unwelcome advice, because I was an English major who once had the same plan in life.

A lawyer and an english teacher are two entirely different professions, so when I hear someone say "Yeah, I'm aiming for law, but my safety is education," I facepalm. It sounds like you're picking a career based on what options you think are available to you, given your English major. That's not the right way to look at your career. Not the right way whatsoever.

Pick a career you want, and then tailor your major and your studies toward that career. Don't pick a career based on what you perceive to be the default choices left open to you. You will spend the majority of your life working. Don't let that work be something you felt you had to choose or fall into. Make it something you were the architect of.

You're going to hear people tell you "Oh, you're an English major? Guess you can either be a lawyer, a writer, or an educator." **** those people, dude. You can and should be what you want to be. If what you really want to be is either a lawyer or a teacher, so be it. But those professions are so radically different, in every possible dimension, that I have a hard time believing they're your two biggest passions in life. At the very least, educate yourself as fully as possible about both career choices. Because it takes a very different type of person to succeed in either one.

First of all thanks for the advice. Sometimes that unsolicited advice is the best advice. I appreciate your time.

I had no idea that lawyer with an education backup was such a popular plan. It's my plan because I'm very confident that I want to practice law and I have an educational background and I'd like to teach kids one day. Even if I do have success as a lawyer I intend on teaching later on in life.

I picked lawyer as my career of choice, and I originally had Philosophy as my major. I then changed it to English because I found English more interesting and I know I'll achieve good marks there. I also chose English because I'd love to become an English teacher one day.

I have more to say but I'll probably cover those bases in my next couple replies. See below.

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

How do you know that you "only want to be a lawyer"? Have you actually worked in a law office/firm? Observed the things lawyers do on a day-to-day basis? Have you seen the full spectrum of the legal practice, from public defender, to in-house counsel, to biglaw, to solo practitioner? If you have not, then you don't really KNOW you want to be a lawyer, you only think you do.

I turned down a job in a small law firm here in New Orleans this summer because the commute would've been a logistical nightmare. I also almost ended up volunteering at the New Orleans Public Defender's office, but I ended up realizing that the workload would've been too much given that I'm balancing two jobs right now.

However, I have an idea of the area of practice I'd prefer to specialize in, and I have reached out to professionals in that area. I enjoy criminal law, so I found a public defender. He's an older guy who started out in a big firm decades ago, moved on to smaller more specialized areas, and has been a PD for over a decade now. He has a genuine passion for the law and has always reached out to me to provide me with sound advice.

I definitely need to learn more about in house counsel and biglaw jobs. That's something I'd like to know more about. I'm sure I will get to that eventually -- I still have a couple years before law school.

At 19, it's hard to say that I "know" anything about anything right now. I do know that I have a genuine interest in the law and I'm not one of these people who thinks that going to law school gives you a license to print money. That probably sets me apart from 90% of the field right off the bat.

Originally Posted by Runningman411

The Louisiana market is also slow but not as bad as some areas. The salaries cited in the article for small and mid-sized firms is kind of low, even by Louisiana standards. I work in a small-mid sized firm and my starting salary 7 years ago was better than that. If you work hard and get into a nice sized firm in New Orleans, Baton Rouge or Lafayette, your starting salary should be plenty enough to live on.

The best advice that I can give you is to focus on relationships when you're clerking. Yes, your grades and writing ability matter but firms are looking for people that will fit into their culture. Summer clerkships are not the time to express your individuality or to show any irresponsible behavior. You can do that all you want when you're a partner. Just present yourself as a hardworking, responsible adult and you'll be fine. It's expensive to train and retain an associate. The last thing that firms want to do is to take a chance on someone, regardless of how smart that person might be.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Yeah well pretty much any salary will be enough for me to live on. I could live on $30k a year EASILY down here in NOLA, and I don't have any plans to get married or have children in the next 10 years.

I appreciate your invitation btw. I'm sure I'll be PM'ing you soon!

 

[Mark it 8]

Originally Posted by rjakapeanut

this is the most attention i've gotten on styleforum ever lol

anyways, what i mean is i only want to be a lawyer. my backup is english teacher. i'm an english major right now.

either way don't trip, my grades are good enough for t14, and i'm probably going to go to LSU. so i'll likely get a full ride anyway.

Do NOT do this. Go to the best school you can unless it is only marginally better than LSU. You will have many, many more opportunities coming out of an HLS, etc. Think you might want to teach law? On the whole, you will need an Ivy law degree unless you want to be an adjunct. A degree from a top law school will also offer numerous opportunities if you go to law school, and, god forbid, realize you dont like law.

Originally Posted by Runningman411

The Louisiana market is also slow but not as bad as some areas. The salaries cited in the article for small and mid-sized firms is kind of low, even by Louisiana standards. I work in a small-mid sized firm and my starting salary 7 years ago was better than that. If you work hard and get into a nice sized firm in New Orleans, Baton Rouge or Lafayette, your starting salary should be plenty enough to live on.

Have you seen Craigslist lately? I know tons of lawyers in NO who are out of work.

 

[rjakapeanut]

right i understand but my thing is i really don't want to have any debt coming out, and i want to stay in new orleans because i love it here. my grades will be good enough for a duke, georgetown, or cornell. but probably not good enough to get a ton of $$$$ from them.

given that i'm not trying to conquer the world and i want to stay in NOLA, i'm hoping to get big $$$ from tulane or LSU.

 

[crazyquik]

I hugged a lawyer once. She's cute-ish.