Made in Italy by Chinese workers

[max b]

Originally Posted by a tailor

almost split my sides as i rolled on the floor. when i read about a gentleman named "Matteo" Wong.

it looks strange, but actually most of the chinese people in Italy has (or invent for themselves) an italian name...Ambrogio Wang, Giuseppe Lee..it is funny actually.

 

[max b]

I really think we have to go back to the original meaning of the post (I hope I understood it and I'm not wrong).
once more : the point is not about race or color of the skin.
what is legal ?
to me people who open a factory in Italy (in US, in France, whatever) and pay 100 euro monthly salary to the workers IS NOT LEGAL.
people who produce in China, Vietnam, Cambogia, ship to Italy and attach the label made in Italy IS NOT LEGAL.
this is damaging the Italian (or American) people who work hard to keep the quality and follow the law. This is damaging the workers for the profit of few. This is damaging the "appeal" of the Made in Italy...

 

[JensenH]

Originally Posted by max b

I really think we have to go back to the original meaning of the post (I hope I understood it and I'm not wrong).
once more : the point is not about race or color of the skin.
what is legal ?
to me people who open a factory in Italy (in US, in France, whatever) and pay 100 euro monthly salary to the workers IS NOT LEGAL.
people who produce in China, Vietnam, Cambogia, ship to Italy and attach the label made in Italy IS NOT LEGAL.
this is damaging the Italian (or American) people who work hard to keep the quality and follow the law. This is damaging the workers for the profit of few. This is damaging the "appeal" of the Made in Italy...

Well said.

 

[wsanford-shanghai]

As I am sure its been discussed, check out the book Deluxe. The "good" name of quality goods has been exchanged for a quick buck long before outsourcing or "who made what" ever came about. In many ways, you can say that forcing craftsmanship into an assembly line for RTW undermines the essence of bespoke or otherwise handmade goods. Having those assembly lines in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe or even Italy cannot mitigate the fact that big companies get what they pay for and specify... That is to say, when they choose to put the bulk of their intention and budgets in brand building and advertising rather than craftsmanship, the product suffers and in return the customer is left paying a high price for inferior goods. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the maker. And BTW, when foreigners come to Asia, they also choose odd names.

 

[Maccimus]

Originally Posted by wsanford-shanghai

And BTW, when foreigners come to Asia, they also choose odd names.
I've seen too many..

 

[fabiomassimo]

Originally Posted by max b

to me people who open a factory in Italy (in US, in France, whatever) and pay 100 euro monthly salary to the workers IS NOT LEGAL.
people who produce in China, Vietnam, Cambogia, ship to Italy and attach the label made in Italy IS NOT LEGAL.
this is damaging the Italian (or American) people who work hard to keep the quality and follow the law. This is damaging the workers for the profit of few. This is damaging the "appeal" of the Made in Italy...

I think this sums it up, really. The italian government has been talking about introducing more strict laws to protect real made in italy products as apparently many brands are selling "fake" made in italy garments (by fake I mean not made in italy). I think the choice is down to us, eventually. Trying to buy the "good" brands only. Which is not easy, I understand. I used to buy a lot of Stone Island and C.P. company, italian brands, from the same city I was born (Bologna), they used to invest a lot in the product, testing new fabrics and treatments and doing everything in italy. Sadly, they changed all this a few years ago, they are just repeating themselves, outsourcing everything to eastern europe (or even China and India) and just investing in brand building and advertising. I stopped buying since their labels stopped saying "made in italy"...

 

[max b]

Originally Posted by wsanford-shanghai

As I am sure its been discussed, check out the book Deluxe. The "good" name of quality goods has been exchanged for a quick buck long before outsourcing ever came about.

In many ways, you can say that forcing craftsmanship into an assembly line for RTW undermines the essence of bespoke or otherwise handmade goods. Having those assembly lines in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe or even Italy cannot mitigate the fact that big companies get what they pay for and specify...

That is to say, when they choose to put the bulk of their intention and budgets in brand building and advertising rather than craftsmanship, the product suffers and in return the customer is left paying a high price for inferior goods. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the maker.

And BTW, when foreigners come to Asia, they also choose odd names.

In this case I was referring to the goods produced in Italy, Europe or US only. What you say about big Companies producing in Far East is another issue, very interesting and worth a discussion, but another matter.
What is not ethic and is not legal is producing in Italy underpaying the workers or attaching fake "made in Italy" labels.
Your argument it is actually really interesting. There are some post on this forum talking about the clothing industry and the value for money comparing goods coming directly from the producer or coming from the big brands.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by max b

I really think we have to go back to the original meaning of the post (I hope I understood it and I'm not wrong).
once more : the point is not about race or color of the skin.
what is legal ?
to me people who open a factory in Italy (in US, in France, whatever) and pay 100 euro monthly salary to the workers IS NOT LEGAL.
people who produce in China, Vietnam, Cambogia, ship to Italy and attach the label made in Italy IS NOT LEGAL.
this is damaging the Italian (or American) people who work hard to keep the quality and follow the law. This is damaging the workers for the profit of few. This is damaging the "appeal" of the Made in Italy...

My Z Zegna khakis/chinos (I am not sure of the difference) are from an Italian brand but the lable says "made in China" (so at least in Spanish they are "chinos", that is, "Chineese").
This thus seems to be legal, right?

 

[max b]

Originally Posted by epa

My Z Zegna khakis/chinos (I am not sure of the difference) are from an Italian brand but the lable says "made in China" (so at least in Spanish they are "chinos", that is, "Chineese").
This thus seems to be legal, right?

I'm not a lawyer, but if it delcare the real Country of origin, it is legal. Then the decision it's up to the consumer to buy it or not

 

[fabiomassimo]

Originally Posted by epa

My Z Zegna khakis/chinos (I am not sure of the difference) are from an Italian brand but the lable says "made in China" (so at least in Spanish they are "chinos", that is, "Chineese").
This thus seems to be legal, right?

Of course this is legal, most italian brands are made elsewhere nowadays, as said you need to declare the real country of origin on your label, then it does not matter (legally) where you produce your clothes (be they chinos or not LOL).

 

[NorCal_1]

it works both ways apparently ;-)



"It is part of what China is all about, you know," Mohieddeen said. "There is quite an elaborate fantasy world going on here where if everyone buys into it, it does not matter if it is the truth. Those kinds of experiences give me a fuller understanding of the way the culture works."








http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/...iref=obnetwork


Chinese companies 'rent' white foreigners
By Lara Farrar, for CNN

Chinese companies hire white people to portray executives or clients
Often hired in second-tier Chinese cities to impress clients and officials
Usually out-of-work models and actors, or English teachers, are hired for these jobs
Known by local actors as "White Guy Window Dressing" or a "Face Job"
Beijing, China (CNN) -- In China, white people can be rented.
For a day, a weekend, a week, up to even a month or two, Chinese companies are willing to pay high prices for fair-faced foreigners to join them as fake employees or business partners.
Some call it "White Guy Window Dressing." To others, it's known as the "White Guy in a Tie" events, "The Token White Guy Gig," or, simply, a "Face Job."
And it is, essentially, all about the age-old Chinese concept of face. To have a few foreigners hanging around means a company has prestige, money and the increasingly crucial connections -- real or not -- to businesses abroad.
"Face, we say in China, is more important than life itself," said Zhang Haihua, author of "Think Like Chinese." "Because Western countries are so developed, people think they are more well off, so people think that if a company can hire foreigners, it must have a lot of money and have very important connections overseas. So when they really want to impress someone, they may roll out a foreigner."
Or rent one.
Last year, Jonathan Zatkin, an American actor who lives in Beijing, posed as the vice president of an Italian jewelry company that had, allegedly, been in a partnership with a Chinese jewelry chain for a decade.
When is being foreign a career advantage?
Zatkin was paid 2,000 yuan (about $300) to fly, along with a couple of Russian models, to a small city in the central province of Henan where he delivered a speech for the grand opening ceremony of a jewelry store there.
"I was up on stage with the mayor of the town, and I made a speech about how wonderful it was to work with the company for 10 years and how we were so proud of all of the work they had done for us in China," Zatkin said. "They put up a big bandstand and the whole town was there and some other local muckety-mucks."
The requirements for these jobs are simple. 1. Be white. 2. Do not speak any Chinese, or really speak at all, unless asked. 3. Pretend like you just got off of an airplane yesterday.
Those who go for such gigs tend to be unemployed actors or models, part-time English teachers or other expats looking to earn a few extra bucks. Often they are jobs at a second- or third-tier city, where the presence of pale-faced foreigners is needed to impress local officials, secure a contract or simply to fulfill a claim of being international.
"Occasionally companies want a foreign face to go to meetings and conferences or to go to dinners and lunches and smile at the clients and shake people's hands," read an ad posted by a company called Rent A Laowai (Chinese for "foreigner") on the online classified site thebeijinger.com.
It continued: "There are job opportunities for girls who are pretty and for men who can look good in a suit."
Click here for in-depth news on China
People like Brad Smith. When Smith -- the nom de plume of the Beijing-based American actor -- answered CNN's phone call on a recent morning, he was standing outside a meeting room at a Ramada Inn in Hangzhou, a city about 100 miles outside of Shanghai. Today's job: Pretend to be an architect from New York and give design plans for a new museum to local officials.
"They have not told me what my name is today. I think it is Lawrence or something," said Smith -- unlike some jobs, no fake business cards were given to hand out.
Earlier that morning he went over his script with his Chinese "business partners" at a Kentucky Fried Chicken. "It says, 'Good morning distinguished leaders. It is my privilege to participate in this program'," said Smith, who asked that his real name not be used for fear it could jeopardize future jobs.
If Smith is asked a question, he is told to pretend to answer as his "translator" pretends to understand.
Occasionally, these jobs can go awry. Smith said 18 months ago Beijing police showed up at his apartment after a financial company he worked at for a couple of months in Xi'an, a city in western China, allegedly swindled millions of yuan out of clients.
"That company said I was the guy in charge," he said. "I didn't even remember the company's name. After that, I decided I was never going to use my passport again with these fake companies. The small gigs are much less dangerous." Sometimes companies will hire Caucasians simply to sit in the office a few hours a day near the window where clients and customers can see them.
White women are also a hot commodity, sometimes to pose as phony foreign girlfriends, or, in the case of Vicky Mohieddeen, to pretend to be an oil tycoon.
Mohieddeen, who is Scottish, took a job in 2008 to attend what she describes as some sort of "oil drilling conference" in Shandong province for 300 yuan ($44). Several busloads of foreigners, with nationalities ranging from Pakistani to Nigerian, were trucked to the event, she said. They were greeted by brass bands and feted with a sumptuous dinner.
"I was like, 'Yeah, we have a lot of oil in Scotland.' I didn't know what to say. It was a bit nerve-racking. We were guests of honor of the vice mayor. We were put in a nice hotel. It was quite fancy."
For Mohieddeen, who had just arrived in Beijing at the time, the experience, albeit bizarre, was an introduction to a side of China most foreigners will never see.

"It is part of what China is all about, you know," Mohieddeen said. "There is quite an elaborate fantasy world going on here where if everyone buys into it, it does not matter if it is the truth. Those kinds of experiences give me a fuller understanding of the way the culture works."

 

[justsayno]

I read this article a while back.

This article further demonstrates that Chinese today rarely go past face value, be it racial visual cues or a clothes label to confirm an preconceived stereotype to the extent that the Chinese can be easily deceived by unscrupulous clothing merchants and impersonation agencies.

Originally Posted by NorCal_1

it works both ways apparently ;-)



"It is part of what China is all about, you know," Mohieddeen said. "There is quite an elaborate fantasy world going on here where if everyone buys into it, it does not matter if it is the truth. Those kinds of experiences give me a fuller understanding of the way the culture works."

 

[lim's]

Originally Posted by winston

Are all Europeans just generic 'whites' to you? Must all Europeans suffer as some sort of penance for the perceived past misdeeds of others who might share their skintone?
Of course. Isn't that why they created the European Union? To assimilate every European nation as one?

And continued misdeeds...
This thread is about Chinese in Italy, and this member posts this supposed Italian menu written in Chinese:

Originally Posted by Jay Gatsby

This fast food restaurant is obviously in Japan. Why? Because it's written in Japanese! But, of course, he couldn't figure that out because...

(BTW, I can't even read Japanese or Chinese, but I still knew it was Japanese.)

 

[blix993]

Originally Posted by texas_jack

lol at the corrupt Chinese making the corrupt Italians angry.

hahah...by the way nice avatar..maserati ????

 

[blix993]

Originally Posted by fabiomassimo

Of course this is legal, most italian brands are made elsewhere nowadays, as said you need to declare the real country of origin on your label, then it does not matter (legally) where you produce your clothes (be they chinos or not LOL).

Guys I had this discussion with a on line seller of italian suits regarding the entirely made in Italy issue.

I searched a little bit on internet and I did found this article
"http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/business/global/01italy.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp"

therefore i trust more and more where it is written entirely made in Italy.
Immagine that the italian authorities are just throwing years of experience away just becasue they are not strong enough to do something about it!!!

Well I would made the made in Italy things that are finaly assembled there as shoes suits..ets... and entirely made in Italy where every part of the production is made there, and it should be like this every where!! don't you think???