The Way They Wore: Images from the Past

[double00]

corozo is a great button material , can be dyed etc

 

[Stylewords]

Jean d'Ormesson, the man who loved knit ties

French writer d'Ormesson loved knit ties. So much so that he incorporated them in seemingly every outfit, making them a style signature. He wore them with suits


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He wore them with sport coats, most often tweeds.


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He even wore them while petting dogs.


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Looking for new summer digs? D'Ormesson had some very cool summer suits ranging from tan to cream. I once commissioned a tan gabardine suit similar to the second photo. Should have gone for a heavier fabric, as gabardine is a very slippery material. I think my suit is 8/9oz cloth; thinking about doing a different gab suit in 11/12oz. When gab is too light, it doesn't drape well and the edges pucker easily.


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Nearly all of my suits have matte black or brown horn buttons, but lately, I've been thinking that many suits look more elegant with tonal buttons.


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D'Ormesson was also a fan of single monks. I'm increasingly warming up to this style.


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D'Ormesson shows how you can dress down a tailored jacket with a black turtleneck. If you think black turtlenecks are a bit too cliche, you can also go for charcoal.


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A very sad man on here once argued that suits should never be worn with loafers. D'Ormesson shows how this can, in fact, look quite elegant. At the last Anderson & Sheppard trunk show, I noticed one of the fitters was wearing a grey flannel suit with black tassel loafers, and similarly thought he looked good.


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I wonder who argued that suits should never be worn with loafers. Is it the same fool who said oxfords shouldn't be worn with flannels and a sport coat?

 

[dieworkwear]

That was an exaggeration for effect, obviously –or apparently, not obviously– so I don't doubt what you say, but as this is a photographic inspiration thread, I was commenting on what the photographs look like, saying that the new pictures you provided don't look as comfortable and relaxed as the photographs of the original style(s) that they are supposedly following. This could, to some extent be an artifact of the kind of pictures they are, but it doesn't seem to be only that. The older pictures seem to show much fuller chests and not be so nipped. That sort of much narrower cut is very 2000s #menswear - but clearly at the better end, not the 6" leg-openings end. In general, I think we'd be better off sticking with the older examples, which look so much better.

I notice you had no comment on the issue of shoulder structure... is that because I am actually right on that one?

There are a few tailors in that set of photos, and they were made during different time periods.

As you know, these garments were drafted and cut by Paone when he was at Rubinacci. They were made in the mid-2000s. I agree these don't look like my first set of photos in that post. The first set of photos in that post all show Anderson & Sheppard tailoring, and Rubinacci doesn't really cut a drape coat. It has been explained elsewhere that the drape is probably more of an effect of the extended shoulder line and slightly roomier chest. But supposedly, Rubinacci doesn't actually cut the chest piece like A&S or Steed.

These garments were both cut by Edwin at Steed. They were made in the last few years. The person in the first photo is Calvin over at BRIO. I commissioned the same jacket after seeing this one and used the same fabric, an 18oz Fox serge .

One of the reasons why Calvin's sport coat doesn't look as drapey as some of the photos in my original post is due to fabric. It's harder to see the drape in a coat when you use a heavier fabric, or a spongey fabric such as Shetland tweed. It's easier to see it in a mid or light-weight cloth, and something compact such as a worsted (even flannel)

I would not call these early 2000s slim fits. They seem very classic to me.

It's often hard to judge just how much padding or fullness is in a coat because 1) the client has leeway in determining what they want, so house style sometimes varies, and 2) the person's build might affect the silhouette. If someone has a very large drop, you might not have to nip the waist very much and you will still get a very v-shapd figure.

My build is similar to Slewfoot and I find that, if I say nothing, my coats come out similar to his. IMO, Slew's Steed garments are more representative of Steed's house cut than Vox's garments. I think this is partly because Vox has an atypical build

When we look at Slew's Steed coats, I agree they don't fit as full as old A&S. This is Norman Halsey, former managing director of A&S

But to my eye, the shaping is not too dissimilar. When @St1X used the phrase "unstructured oversized shoulders," I thought of A&S, naturally, since they are known for their soft drape cut. And since someone else on this forum recently said that it's not possible to dress in the way discussed in this thread, I tried to draw a connection between old A&S and what are some modern drape-ish cuts (for Rubi, this would be a swelled chest, not drape, but similar nonetheless).

I agree that many modern drape cuts don't fit as full as old stuff. I think this is partly because 1) clients want something slimmer and 2) you want some coherence between the jacket and trousers. Most men today wear slightly slimmer trousers than the old stuff, even if they go to a traditional bespoke tailor. When you slim up the trousers, you need to slim up the coat just a touch to keep harmony in the silhouette

Regarding the shoulders, I agree that A&S is not an unstructured shoulder, but I don't know what the term unstructured means anymore because it's often used as synonymous with soft tailoring. No coat is unstructured -- everything has at least a fusible, if not a canvas. A&S nowadays uses a prefabricated should pad. I know Steed uses a 1.5ply shoulder pad. British tailors also use haircloth and domette, which add structure along with the canvas and padding.

You can extend the shoulder line with less or more structure, but you need some structure to support the shoulder ends. From what I've seen, the tipping point seems to be 1.5 plys. One tailor I use (Solito) uses a one-ply shoulder pad and he insists that extending the shoulder is a bad idea because the ends will not hold up.

Depending on what @St1X meant by "unstructured," I just put up some photos that I thought were relevant.

 

[dieworkwear]

I wonder who argued that suits should never be worn with loafers. Is it the same fool who said oxfords shouldn't be worn with flannels and a sport coat?

No, the second person is a smart man and the first is a dumb man. They are two different people.

 

[Stylewords]

No, the second person is a smart man and the first is a dumb man. They are two different people.

I never saw anymone make the first claim. I did see someone make the second one - strange fellow, easily riled.

 

[dieworkwear]

I never saw anymone make the first claim. I did see someone make the second one - strange fellow, easily riled.

I'm glad you didn't see the first guy. He's super annoying.

 

[Stylewords]

I'm glad you didn't see the first guy. He's super annoying.

I don't think anyone has seen him. Is the gentleman in question made of straw?

 

[dieworkwear]

I don't think anyone has seen him. Is the gentleman in question made of straw?

He's made of potatoes and shaped like a sack of them.

 

[Stylewords]

Disappointing. I was expecting something wittier and less childish. Still, I quite enjoy the photos you post and that seems to be your forte, so please get back to that.

 

[dieworkwear]

Disappointing. I was expecting something wittier and less childish. Still, I quite enjoy the photos you post and that seems to be your forte, so please get back to that.

Thank you. I hope one of the images gets through your thick skull.

 

[Stylewords]

Thank you. I hope one of the images gets through your thick skull.

Told you he was easily riled.

 

[dieworkwear]

Told you he was easily riled.

I think you mistake me insulting you as being riled and not pleasure.

 

[Stylewords]

I think you mistake me insulting you as being riled and not pleasure.

Nah, we've all seen you get quickly overwhelmed and riled here on numerous occasions. But there's no point going on - it's boring for others. I genuinely enjoy many of the photos from your collection. So let's get back to that.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Today's theme is unstructured oversized shoulders, my favorite look


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Examples of how this style continues today.


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I was recently at an Anderson & Sheppard fitting. I was surprised to find their clothes fit very slim, clean, and short nowadays. I went into the fitting to get a coat fixed. My sport coat needed to have the chest let out for some extra drape and the front balance lengthened. My cutter didn't want to extend the shoulders, so I just went with his opinion. However, the overall sport coat lacked the roundness that I find so appealing in DDL's recent A&S stuff.


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This seems like a careful balancing act.

DDL's clothes just look sloppy and ill fitting.

Steed's cut looks the most balanced for drape cut. Astaire also looks great. The tailor in the 3rd photo also looks bad.

When the shoulder line extends too far out and collapses, it has the opposite of it's extended effect. It looks like an atrophied, rounded shoulder.

I look the look of a generous chest over shoulders and Steed seems to nail that.

 

[comrade]

This seems like a careful balancing act.

DDL's clothes just look sloppy and ill fitting.

Steed's cut looks the most balanced for drape cut. Astaire also looks great. The tailor in the 3rd photo also looks bad.

When the shoulder line extends too far out and collapses, it has the opposite of it's extended effect. It looks like an atrophied, rounded shoulder.

I look the look of a generous chest over shoulders and Steed seems to nail that.

To me this is the best in the lot. The shoulders look like traditional
"Ivy" ones. No obvious extension. Also, appears to be a longer coat.