The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[steveoffice]

i almost pulled a trigger on a batman about 4-5 months ago on Bobs Watches for about 10k, now it's 15k. At this rate, you might as well get a calatrava.

 

[LA Guy]

i almost pulled a trigger on a batman about 4-5 months ago on Bobs Watches for about 10k, now it's 15k. At this rate, you might as well get a calatrava.

Yeah, my question is whether people are buying? I've seen a few Batmans, just as an example, languishing in some watch consignment shops. Same goes with a few Omega Speedmaster Apollo 11 35th anniversary watches. The same watches have been on the market for some time without buyers, but the asking price continues to increase. It's logic defying. Or maybe I'm just seeing something anomalous in the dozen or so watch shops I keep an eye on.

 

[UnFacconable]

i almost pulled a trigger on a batman about 4-5 months ago on Bobs Watches for about 10k, now it's 15k. At this rate, you might as well get a calatrava.

The more I hear this the more I think I should part with my mint BLNR. Would certainly be a seller somewhere between 10 and 15k. I guess the prices will continue to go up until there's a significant correction in the luxury goods market. In the normal world, the release of a new model with tangible improvements (better movement, jubilee bracelet- although that's arguably more of a change than an improvement) would make the discontinued model less valuable, but I guess that's not the world Rolex fans inhabit.

All that said, we had a CFO candidate in the office yesterday and he was rocking the BLNR and it made me think I should give it some wrist time.

 

[steveoffice]

i think so based on a couple websites and role forum classified

enough suckers to go around...

 

[LA Guy]

The more I hear this the more I think I should part with my mint BLNR. Would certainly be a seller somewhere between 10 and 15k. I guess the prices will continue to go up until there's a significant correction in the luxury goods market. In the normal world, the release of a new model with tangible improvements (better movement, jubilee bracelet- although that's arguably more of a change than an improvement) would make the discontinued model less valuable, but I guess that's not the world Rolex fans inhabit.

All that said, we had a CFO candidate in the office yesterday and he was rocking the BLNR and it made me think I should give it some wrist time.

Just think - if you sell it, you can get something else!

I've been thinking about parting with the Daytona, but probably won't because I'm a sentimental bastard.

 

[steveoffice]

i just hope that the hype doesnt spill into calatrava by the time i could afford it.

 

[Dino944]

I do actually have a watch related question. Recently, I've been bidding on some Rolexes, just for fun, on various online auctions. Some of the prices I've thrown out are even semi-reasonable for a used watch. However, I've noticed that a lot of the auctions are simply passed. This has not been the case with some vintage Omegas, which simply sell for a lower price, with some exceptions for some models that are popular in say, Asia, like the Snoopy Speedmasters.

My question is - are Rolexes actually appreciating in value, or are they simply being overvalued by their owners/consignors/auction houses. I'm sure that some are incredibly difficult to obtain and command really high prices, but it seems like a lot of people are holding onto fairly standard, fairly late model watches and expecting to sell them for a higher price than the market will bear.

I remember someone saying something about being able to trade on Rolex futures. Where can I find more information on that?

Yes, some dealers do ask insane prices...and they sit there. Maybe they don't need to move them. However, places with good watches at maybe "Average high" prices do seem to sell them. There is a very respected gray dealer who I find overpriced on a lot of pieces relative to their condition, but from what I've seen the guy does move his watches. He's just got in a Batman and is now asking $18,500! However, on chrono24 there are now a few places asking over 20!

I don't think there is anything on trading Rolex futures. I think it was more a discussion about people being able to use them as currency if you in a jam in a foreign country. I've heard that more than once.

As for Rolex models appreciating, at least with sports/professional models - all of the ones I've owned for 5 years or more have gone up in value. Some much more than others, but none were worth less than I paid for them. I don't own enough Rolex watches that I could sell them all and retire, so its not that kind of money. Still its nice to have had fun in a hobby and not lost money doing it.

I guess the prices will continue to go up until there's a significant correction in the luxury goods market. In the normal world, the release of a new model with tangible improvements (better movement, jubilee bracelet- although that's arguably more of a change than an improvement) would make the discontinued model less valuable, but I guess that's not the world Rolex fans inhabit.

In the past when new improved models came out, the outgoing model would drop in value on the secondary market at least for a while. However, that really wasn't the case with the 116520 Daytona, and it definitely did not happen with the 116710 Batman GMT.

I've seen a correction in the luxury goods market, whereby ADs are more willing to discount pieces they would not before (around 2008/2009...my dad bought his steel white dial Daytona at that time and got a 5% discount off MSRP from an AD). However, I've yet to see it impact vintage Rolex watches...might take end of the world for that!

 

[Belligero]

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Hi Keith,

Here are a few quick photos of the new 216570. I haven’t even sized it yet, so no wrist shot. At the bottom is my 18 year old 16570. Once I’ve had some real time with the new one I will try to share some ownership impressions or do a comparison.

As for some initial impressions, the old one is more subdued. Not just due to the case size, but mainly because of the dial and 24 hour hand. The 16570 is basically identical to the GMT2 16710, except for a fixed brushed steel bezel rather than a rotating bezel. There is the traditional black dial and the same lum plots as on a GMT/Sub or SD of that time. Then on the black dial there is a sliver of color from the red 24 hour hand.

The new watch is bolder. It’s a larger case, but the lugs taper more than on the ceramic GMT2 or Sub, which I think makes the larger case more wearable. If it had “Rolex Supercase” boxier lugs combined with a 42mm case it would probably be too chunky for my taste. It is my understanding there is also more curvature to the case back and lugs of the 216570 compared to say a 40mm Ceramic GMT or Sub. However what makes it stand out are the orange 24 hour hand, the orange writing on the dial, the maxi lum plots, and the extra large hands. All of these elements seems to “Pop” against the matte black dial.

Anyway, I’ll try to do a real comparison once I’ve had some real wrist time with the 216570.

Best regards,
Dino

Cool, congrats on the new pick-up!

I’ve had the 216570 in white for the past four years, and I think it’s spot-on as a modern sports Rolex. The fixed metal bezel combined with the big, legible hands and dial arguably make it the most function-first among the current range.

There’s a lot to appreciate about the earlier model, which is a perfect all-arounder and looks great on pretty much any wrist. However, I think it’s nice that the update differentiated it from the GMT II by giving it a case, bracelet, handset, dial and crown that are unique to the model, instead of only the bezel.

Its 3187 movement is also exclusive to the watch, and its larger baseplate and date wheel show the attention to detail that is typical of Rolex — most others would instead simply jam in a spacer and settle for a misaligned date window.

It’s a well-designed watch that I particularly enjoy wearing outdoors; hope you like yours, too!

 

[Dino944]

Cool, congrats on the new pick-up!

I’ve had the 216570 in white for the past four years, and I think it’s spot-on as a modern sports Rolex. The fixed metal bezel combined with the big, legible hands and dial arguably make it the most function-first among the current range.

There’s a lot to appreciate about the earlier model, which is a perfect all-arounder and looks great on pretty much any wrist. However, I think it’s nice that the update differentiated it from the GMT II by giving it a case, bracelet, handset, dial and crown that are unique to the model, instead of only the bezel.

Its 3187 movement is also exclusive to the watch, and its larger baseplate and date wheel show the attention to detail that is typical of Rolex — most others would instead simply jam in a spacer and settle for a misaligned date window.

It’s a well-designed watch that I particularly enjoy wearing outdoors; hope you like yours, too!

Thanks for the good wishes on the new addition to my collection. I agree, it really is one of the most interesting and functional pieces in their current collection. While I like the 16570 and appreciate its ability to fly under the radar more than most sport model from Rolex, I'm pleased that the 216570 is separate and distinct model rather than a variation of a GMT Master.

I like that rather than merely making a retro/homage/reissue of the original Explorer II 1655, they made the 216570 a watch that is an Explorer II evolution with everything designed to improve legibility, a larger case, larger dial, maxi lum plots, larger hands, and a 24 hour hand that almost jumps off the dial!
Thanks again for the good wishes. Your Explorer II looks great !

 

[Thin White Duke]

Scarcely a diatribe - that would imply that I have a negative opinion on the subject. I'm not sure what your problem with me is. I've never met you unless you've come to one of our meetings in New York or in Florence, and if I have somehow given offense, I sincerely apologize. But... the ethos of this forum has always, from the inception, to allow threads to go off topic - a rambling conversation between friends that meanders and eventually comes back around to the original topic.

This is something upon which the success of the forum was and is premised - that any given poster brings with him or her not simply an enthusiasm for any specific topic, but also an interest in a broad range of other subjects and rich life experiences. If there are enough sequential off topic posts in any given thread (I usually use 30 as the cut off), I typically break them off into a separate thread.

So, are you not interested in martial arts and combat sports, or do you just dislike me personally?

‘Diatribe’ was the wrong word - as you stated that would infer negativity from you towards the subject.

It would certainly be a sad bastard who would take a dislike to someone based purely upon your kind of posts. I’m not that sad.

I believe every thread should have some room to roam but you come off as desperate to inform us of your martial arts history and this is a watch thread. It’s your forum and you can do what you want but I don’t see much shared DNA between enthusiasm for watches and MMA.

I’ve been training over 25 years and hold senior dan ranks in Shorin Ryu and Shotokan but my progress is my own journey and I doubt would hold much interest for other people. Especially on a watch thread. YMMV.

So ... what’s all this about Baselworld then eh?

 

[Thin White Duke]

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Best regards,
Dino

Sweet Explorers Dino. I think if I had to choose o prefer the older version but that’s based purely on aesthetics and not a deep analysis of the movement tweaks that have happened over the years.

My first Rolex was a white face Explorer which I got for a song in 2010 - $3750 IIRC. I flipped it after a couple of years but still think it’s angreat looking watch. Hard to know my preference between black and white face. I looked into getting another one more recently but the prices had shot up.

And since the conversation has moved onto pricing and possible over inflation ... I too thought that when the ceramic Daytonas came out that the steel bezel ones would decrease in price. I was tracking them going up at about a grand a month which is surely unsustainable. They seem to have plateaued at around $15k now when they could be had for 10 or 11 not so long ago.

 

[GTI388]

Picked these two up recently. Rootbeer is incredible in the metal!

 

[Dino944]

Okay, back to watch talk . . .

@Dino944's post about owning a 16570 and 216570 raises this question for me: To what extent do you seek out, or avoid, owning similar looking watches? As someone of limited means who wants to keep a small (relatively speaking) collection that covers all situations in which I might find myself, I try to avoid having two watches occupy the same "space." I also think I would have difficulty deciding what to wear in the morning if I had two or more watches that were too similar, and would end up heavily favoring one of them. I realize that other people know what they like and can't have too much of a good thing. So what about you?

Very good question. I think when a collection is small, one should to try to have a watches that meet various needs. I will admit at one point I could not get enough of Daytonas. I owned several all at the same time and nothing else, steel, steel and gold, white gold, yellow gold, all the same model...but over time I tired of having certain models. White gold was too close to the steel, and I felt I had too much money in a piece that didn't look different enough to my eye from the steel model. The steel and gold, well I eventually fell out of love with it. Today, I have 3 Daytonas, 2 steel (different movements and dials) and yellow gold. However, I have dress watches, GMT watches, a diving watch, watches that straddle the line between sport and dress like the Royal Oak, and the Cartier Pasha.

To me my Explorer II 16570, Ex2 216570 and GMT BLNR all have the same function, but each is quite different in terms of looks, bracelets, feel. So I don't mind that they do the same thing. I've met collectors who only focus on 1 function and just collect chronographs or diving watches.

As for difficulty choosing a watch if they occupy the same space...for me, I think I found that once I had more than 4 watches I just didn't rotate them as much as I did when I had 2 or 3. Choosing one, had little to do with them having or not having the same function.

I think if one has a small collection, one might want a sport watch of some sort (Diving watch or GMT function) and a dress watch for dressier functions. Everything else, is just sort of icing on the cake to a collection. I like chronographs, but I find a GMT more useful in real life. I also find it more useful than a dive watch, but that's just me.

 

[Dino944]

Picked these two up recently. Rootbeer is incredible in the metal!

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Congrats! That "Rootbeer" is a beauty!!! I had asked 2 dealers about them and one said they hadn't gotten one yet, and another said they had only received one. Hope you enjoy it and I look forward to seeing one in person one of these days.

 

[GTI388]

Congrats! That "Rootbeer" is a beauty!!! I had asked 2 dealers about them and one said they hadn't gotten one yet, and another said they had only received one. Hope you enjoy it and I look forward to seeing one in person one of these days.

Thanks! Hope you will land one soon.

I expressed interest in the rootbeer late last year and it finally came in. I was surprised it took so long for a TT model. But this has become the norm for hot Rolex sport models.