The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

[AriGold]

It’s almost like they did a + instead of a -

Did they take it back to adjust?

Was this in New York? Or Seoul?

Originally done in SG, and received the suit in NYC

Will be curious to see how they fix this. I think I’ll increase lapel width by 0.4” next time just given that I’m 6’2”

 

[jonathanS]

Originally done in SG, and received the suit in NYC

Will be curious to see how they fix this. I think I’ll increase lapel width by 0.4” next time just given that I’m 6’2”

Ahhh. So you took delivery? Or they still have it & are adjusting it?

I don’t think it’s advisable to increase the lapel width. Height has little relevancy to lapel width. It’s about shoulder / chest width.

 

[AriGold]

Ahhh. So you took delivery? Or they still have it & are adjusting it?

I don’t think it’s advisable to increase the lapel width. Height has little relevancy to lapel width. It’s about shoulder / chest width.

They have taken it back to tighten the collar and will ship it to me in about a month.

Are you saying my chest is not broad? 🤣

 

[jonathanS]

They have taken it back to tighten the collar and will ship it to me in about a month.

Are you saying my chest is not broad? 🤣

Got it - looking forward to the final result.

You fit in b&tailor’s mtm pattern! I remember looking at it several years ago & they turned me away because I wouldn’t fit shoulders / chest. But I think the balance of the lapels is pretty good as is. You can ask them their opinion. Doesn’t hurt to ask.

One of my tailors charges me extra because it’s “more fabric” but when I provide the fabric, I’m still charged extra (I just assume it’s more work).

 

[Despos]

B&Tailor MTM, Cacciopolli Chocolate Brown Linen 360gsm

Collar gap needs to be fixed, hopefully they can do that.

Lapels are 10.5cm / 4.1” . Thinking of doing 4.3” / 11cm next time.

Any feedback welcome!

View attachment 2155589 View attachment 2155591

The only time you "tighten the collar" is when your neck size is smaller in relation to your chest size. The yoke of the back collar is calculated by your chest size, not your neck size when drafting a pattern.
If I understand correctly from the picture with the back seam pinned at the neck; they are going to shorten the collar and I assume raise the collar. This could cause the the lapels to roll past the button placement and not let the jacket sit properly on your shoulders.
The issue is how the collar sits too low on the neck and that's not because it's big and needs "tightening".
These Johnny Agnelli photos are the best to show a proper collar height. Notice the collar run is a straight line from the back of the neck to the chest. This is about how the shoulders are cut.

Notice in this picture how forward the shoulder seam is at the neck. This makes a difference in the collar height.

Compare the shoulder line above with this photo. The shoulder on the brown jacket is falling backwards and that's effecting how the collar sits.

 

[_AMD]

The only time you "tighten the collar" is when your neck size is smaller in relation to your chest size. The yoke of the back collar is determined by your chest size, not your neck size.
If I understand correctly from the picture with the back seam pinned at the neck; they are going to shorten the collar and I assume raise the collar. This could cause the the lapels to roll past the button placement and not let the jacket sit properly on your shoulders.
The issue is how the collar sits too low on the neck and that's not because it's big and needs "tightening".
These Johnny Agnelli photos are the best to show a proper collar height. Notice the collar run is a straight line from the back of the neck to the chest. This is about how the shoulders are cut.
View attachment 2157037
Notice in this picture how forward the shoulder seam is at the neck. This makes a difference in the collar height. View attachment 2157039
Compare the shoulder line above with this photo. The shoulder on the brown jacket is falling backwards and that's effecting how the collar sits. View attachment 2157041

Posts like this are why I continue to visit SF. Thank you, @Despos !

 

[AriGold]

The only time you "tighten the collar" is when your neck size is smaller in relation to your chest size. The yoke of the back collar is determined by your chest size, not your neck size.
If I understand correctly from the picture with the back seam pinned at the neck; they are going to shorten the collar and I assume raise the collar. This could cause the the lapels to roll past the button placement and not let the jacket sit properly on your shoulders.
The issue is how the collar sits too low on the neck and that's not because it's big and needs "tightening".
These Johnny Agnelli photos are the best to show a proper collar height. Notice the collar run is a straight line from the back of the neck to the chest. This is about how the shoulders are cut.
View attachment 2157037
Notice in this picture how forward the shoulder seam is at the neck. This makes a difference in the collar height. View attachment 2157039
Compare the shoulder line above with this photo. The shoulder on the brown jacket is falling backwards and that's effecting how the collar sits. View attachment 2157041

This is incredible feedback, thank you so much. Based on this, what would be the best way to salvage the situation?

 

[jonathanS]

The only time you "tighten the collar" is when your neck size is smaller in relation to your chest size. The yoke of the back collar is determined by your chest size, not your neck size.
If I understand correctly from the picture with the back seam pinned at the neck; they are going to shorten the collar and I assume raise the collar. This could cause the the lapels to roll past the button placement and not let the jacket sit properly on your shoulders.
The issue is how the collar sits too low on the neck and that's not because it's big and needs "tightening".
These Johnny Agnelli photos are the best to show a proper collar height. Notice the collar run is a straight line from the back of the neck to the chest. This is about how the shoulders are cut.
View attachment 2157037
Notice in this picture how forward the shoulder seam is at the neck. This makes a difference in the collar height. View attachment 2157039
Compare the shoulder line above with this photo. The shoulder on the brown jacket is falling backwards and that's effecting how the collar sits. View attachment 2157041

Chris, I read your post a few times because I think it can get complicated for laypeople like myself. I thought it was very interesting, I’m just trying to confirm my understanding is correct:



The shoulder seem is pointed forward, because agnelli’s neck is “narrower” than his chest / back yoke. Correct?

I’m wondering why, then, do different tailors have different places they put the shoulder seem? It seems like it’d be different for each client but each client would then have their shoulder seem in approximately the same place.



Here, the shoulder seem should want to follow agnelli’s. The collar should be about the height of the yellow line on the collar. (Line by the collar in yellow was inadvertent & I couldn’t figure out how to delete it.)

This is incredible feedback, thank you so much. Based on this, what would be the best way to salvage the situation?

Seems like youd be a candidate for bespoke / weren’t a good candidate for their mtm pattern. I’m not sure why the original fitter took your order. It’s also strange they saw you in New York as well as Singapore.

Realistically, you haven’t taken delivery so worry about it when you get it back.

 

[Despos]

This is incredible feedback, thank you so much. Based on this, what would be the best way to salvage the situation?

Not sure. Will wait and see the result of their adjustments.

 

[Despos]

@jonathanS
Every tailor has an opinion or point of view about their drafting system and where to put the shoulder seam.
This is the way I've been drafting and cutting for about 40 years. It makes sense to me and I like the result.
There is much disagreement on this subject.

I put the seam at the center of the neck, from a side view, and run the seam along the apex of the shoulder. Creates a perfect balance of front/back distribution and plants the jacket squarely on the shoulder line. This creates a more exact replication of the over shoulder curve of the body and the curve of the armhole of the jacket. In other words the two curves are more in sync. This is optimal and most natural position and allows for the most freedom of movement without disturbing the jacket.
Know some Korean tailors who use the seam of the shirt yoke
as a guide and place the jacket's shoulder seam atop the yoke seam on the shirt.
Here's pictures of how this forward pitch follows the line of the hanger just like it follows the angle of your shoulder. Follows the hanger in a natural way and follows your shoulder line in a natural way when you wear it.
This also draws the collar closer to the neck and keeps the collar run true. Like the Agnelli profile picture.

This is one thing that most tailors have a strong opinion about and variations fall on deaf ears.
Have made shoulders other ways and I wouldn't change what I'm doing.

 

[hysteria]

Would someone kindly explain to me what causes this common issue of upper back bunching up just behind the collar?

I get this with a lot of my shirts and full-sleeve polos and would like to understand the possible culprits and how to fix this problem.

 

[jonathanS]

@jonathanS
Every tailor has an opinion or point of view about their drafting system and where to put the shoulder seam.
This is the way I've been drafting and cutting for about 40 years. It makes sense to me and I like the result.
There is much disagreement on this subject.

I put the seam at the center of the neck, from a side view, and run the seam along the apex of the shoulder. Creates a perfect balance of front/back distribution and plants the jacket squarely on the shoulder line. This creates a more exact replication of the over shoulder curve of the body and the curve of the armhole of the jacket. In other words the two curves are more in sync. This is optimal and most natural position and allows for the most freedom of movement without disturbing the jacket.
Know some Korean tailors who use the seam of the shirt yoke
as a guide and place the jacket's shoulder seam atop the yoke seam on the shirt.
Here's pictures of how this forward pitch follows the line of the hanger just like it follows the angle of your shoulder. Follows the hanger in a natural way and follows your shoulder line in a natural way when you wear it.
This also draws the collar closer to the neck and keeps the collar run true. Like the Agnelli profile picture.

This is one thing that most tailors have a strong opinion about and variations fall on deaf ears.
Have made shoulders other ways and I wouldn't change what I'm doing.


View attachment 2157507
View attachment 2157509

That makes sense - putting it in the center would seem to balance the front & back. But I’m hardly an expert.

Out of curiosity, what’s the rationale behind putting the seam to follow the seam of the shirt?

Perhaps that’s why, there are some tailors who’s collars appear a little bit low but do great work otherwise.





These seem to be pretty centered (if not a little forward), correct? I think the collar sits quite nicely on both these. They’re bespoke from a Milanese tailor.

At first I took this photo because I thought they appeared different, but looking at the photo, I think they’re the same. One is db, one is sb.

I suppose, it doesn’t matter, so long as the fit is right.

 

[seven7seven]

X

 

[ppk]

Feedback please. Nitpicking welcome. Thanks.

 

[DorianGreen]

Feedback please. Nitpicking welcome. Thanks.

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It looks pretty good to me. Good overall fit. Maybe I would shorten the sleeves a little bit.