The Styleforum x Archibald Hand-Welted Dress Shoes GMTO

[Noblekostas]

That sounds like a great idea to me, personally. I hope it's doable and @DWFII finds the time to dissect them and compare them.

I mean not that it helps that much for the future of the line, since it's pretty clear to me that, as long as the older shoes are not cemented and the newer ones are, the artisan is not to trust. However, it may help restore some confidence in the brand and spare @ArchibaldRoh some accusations, it can be very much worth it. And I'd find it interesting, for science and so

I mean I am glad to take them to my cobbler and just put them side by side and just see what is what. You will be able to clearly see what corners have been cut etc and who knows even unravel something else. If that guy can dissect them it would be a nice project

 

[clee1982]

and you have AM and Paolo Scafora too right, at least can compare finishing/welt cleanness, heel stack etc to some of the readily accessible Italian options (though not always handwelt, depends on the price point). Don’t recall do you have SB?

 

[Noblekostas]

and you have AM and Paolo Scafora too right, at least can compare finishing/welt cleanness, heel stack etc to some of the readily accessible Italian options (though not always handwelt, depends on the price point). Don’t recall do you have SB?

Sorry no SB yet :/ But AM and PS yes

 

[deliku]

Honestly, I don’t see the point of dissecting one of the ‘old’ shoes if there are no plans to work with that shoemaker again for dress shoes (and I seriously hope they don’t).

If Archibald teams up with another shoemaker and comes back with a great product then I’ll be happy for them. It would make for a great comeback story.

If they’re serious about that then some things I’d like to see going forward are a concrete plan and more details, less hype. If dress shoes aren’t their “obsession” then I hope it becomes their obsession. How can you know if your product is quality if you aren’t even into it?

 

[TokenMao]

FWIW I appreciate it when people admit they don't know something, how else are you supposed to learn new things? I certainly wouldn't criticize for being honest... There's no need for people on here to gloat or be overly rude.

I think bottom line is most people (me included) don't really know what they're talking about and it's up to the business to be accountable for the quality of their product. You say your focus is on your current customers and you'll worry about others later but both current and future customers (people spending $500+ on dress shoes and care about handwelting) needs to believe in both the product and the company. When I buy shoes from EG or StC or whatever I trust the product and the company to deliver on what they promise, and there's enough evidence out there (reviews from people who legitimately know what they're talking about, videos on deconstructng the shoes, etc.) that proves that. The reason why this whole thing has turned me off from being a customer is because you don't have a process in place or the track record that creates and maintains that trust. Without the actual construction being uncovered those same SF reviewers would've happily walked around loudly proclaiming that their "handwelted" shoes are just as good as top tier RTW.

I think what you're hearing from some people (who aren't your current customers) in this thread is that if they're buying high quality shoes they want to buy from someone that knows their ****. Relying on the SF community to ultimately be your QC (and only taking the positive while accusing those who criticize you of conspiring to take you down) seems like a bad idea for a number of reasons. If I questioned AM on the quality of their shoes, they'd be able to do a lot more than "but this guy on SF said they're good!" Or even if we're talking about the "middlemen" like a SoH or Skoak they have a ton of experience and would be able to have in depth conversations on construction and quality. Contrast that with I thought I read somewhere that you were going to send a pair of your sneakers to Rose Anvil to have him review... multiple multiple sources have said that he is not a shoemaker, he's not a cobbler, and that they don't trust his knowledge or his opinion. You need someone or something in place that guardrails you and flags stuff like Rose Anvil is not a believable expert on shoe quality, but my uninformed opinion is that you don't have that in place and it hasn't been a priority because whether the reviewer is actually knowledgeable or not hasn't mattered as long as the review is positive and pushes the product. Some customers don't care about actual quality as long as they get to feel good about their purchase but my guess is that if you want to seriously make noise in the high end dress shoe market you're going to need more than that. Like I said that's my uninformed opinion (I'm not in the dress shoe business nor do I ever plan to be) from reading these threads and in particular how you react to criticism vs. praise.

All that being said, I don't want it to be lost that being scammed sucks and I feel for you and everyone involved. It sounds like you're a good person who's trying to do right by your customers and I hope you reach a good resolution.

 

[Noblekostas]

Honestly, I don’t see the point of dissecting one of the ‘old’ shoes if there are no plans to work with that shoemaker again for dress shoes (and I seriously hope they don’t).

If Archibald teams up with another shoemaker and comes back with a great product then I’ll be happy for them. It would make for a great comeback story.

If they’re serious about that then some things I’d like to see going forward are a concrete plan and more details, less hype. If dress shoes aren’t their “obsession” then I hope it becomes their obsession. How can you know if your product is quality if you aren’t even into it?

Hey Derek, I agree with you but at the same time it could reveal something else that the shoemaker might have hidden!

 

[deliku]

Hey Derek, I agree with you but at the same time it could reveal something else that the shoemaker might have hidden!

I agree it would be very enlightening. But if we find out more bad news then that makes even the very first customers feel scammed. If we find out they were amazing shoes then it kinda sucks because I wouldn’t want them to work with that guy anymore anyways.

So either we’ll see people rubbing it in and gloating even more than now or we’ll be having an “aw shucks, what a shame” moment. It’s a lose-lose situation for them in my book.

 

[monkey66]

Speaking for myself I certainly gave Archibald a chance or three. I ordered 3 pairs of shoes and handled 4 pairs over a 6 month period. All were eventually returned and I cancelled my order for the HW01s as I no longer had confidence in the quality of the product.

All of the shoes I handled had quality/finish/design issues. When I told you this instead of taking a serious look at why a customer had a problem you publicly attacked me, in total disbelief that someone did not like your products, deluded that I was a part of some grand conspiracy against you. You since apologised for the disgraceful and unwarranted attack.

I bring it up as it was a clear sign that there was a quality issue with your manufacturer nearly a year ago. I'm not suggesting we knew how bad but multiple sloppy finishing issues and clear design errors are simply not the work of artisans. These issues don't exist (to any extent) in the brands you claimed to compare to.

The bottom line is your lack of knowledge in a very specialised market and demonstrable lack of quality control left you (and your customers) exposed.

Back to the shoes I had, I can say the Dainite soled Chelsea boots had stiching but I do wonder now how they were hand-welted? Can one actually hand-welt a Dainite sole? I don't know so am asking?

You said something interesting earlier about a Santoni patent but seemed vague. If this construction method is patented that should have been a significant part of your due diligence. In product manufacturing one cannot afford to be blasé about Intellectual Property.

I claim no expertise but a 10 second Google search brought up Piuma Rapid method as a claimed Santoni patented method of construction.

With all that said I'm genuinely sorry you have been hit like this, running a business is really hard and I'm sorry for all impacted. I hope you can find a way to make it right.

 

[JohnMRobie]

“Can one actually hand-welt a Dainite sole?” Yes

 

[Verrihappy]

Being a troll and all, l just wanna know if you will refund the defrauded customers, irrespective of the outcome of the legal proceedings taking place. You are part of the venture and cannot let your partner take the fall and wash your hands out of this scam.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

Being a troll and all, l just wanna know if you will refund the defrauded customers, irrespective of the outcome of the legal proceedings taking place. You are part of the venture and cannot let your partner take the fall and wash your hands out of this scam.

I am sure one of them will let you know eventually. Or maybe not.

Please dont tell me what I can and cannot do as you know nothing, havent asked for facts and I owe you nothing and never will.

So live your life and just enjoy our misfortune. What happens between me and my customers has nothing to do with you.

 

[taxgenius]

Told you man, it must be hard being the smartest, more clairvoyant person in the room. You got me. My elaborate scam on dress shoes almosy went through...

It isnt a martyr complex, friend. I don't think some claims were as lofty becuase they were validated by real customers some of whom reviewed the product.. By this i mean the product as intended. Listen its going to come to head one way or the other by how this is handled. I know what ive read here and i can pinpoint the skeptics but like i said, they were never going to be our customers.

I thought we established that you are the smartest guy in the room? You got me, Poirot.

Is there anyone that agreed that the shoes (when handwelted) compared to those of EG or Lobb?

 

[othertravel]

I hope you get this sorted out @ArchibaldRoh

It’s difficult enough being an entrepreneur without having a supplier setting back your customer relationships to square one.

 

[Verrihappy]

Not a supplier, his joint venture partner per his hype here.

 

[upsett1_spaghett1]

I decided to read through this entire thread today while waiting for laundry to get done and I am having some flashbacks to Temple of Jawnz here