The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[tito_tunes]

Attending a wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico.

 

[ericgereghty]

Apologies if this is not the place to post this question, but I'm a complete black tie novice and am getting married in August. I want to wear a shawl collar tuxedo for it. I want something classically styled like The Armoury's Model 101 but can't stomach paying that much for a garment I'll maybe wear once a year going forward. I've looked online and can't seem to find anything similar. Could anyone offer advice?

Going vintage seems like a great way to get something reasonably priced and classically styled, but I live in DC and can't find any shops that offer it. Does anyone know of a place in NYC that does? Also, if anyone could link a primer on traditional tuxedo do's and don'ts I'd appreciate it. For example, I know it should be a single button with jetted pockets, but stuff like fabric composition and color, back vents, etc. I have no clue about. Thanks in advance!

Pertinent word here of course is reasonably. Depending on your budget/willingness to spend, you can get something basically custom for 1/2 the cost of that Armoury one you linked.
Of course, it's easy to say "just spend X" when it isn't my money, but if ever one were to spend a touch more than normal/preferred, I'd say a wedding would be the occasion for it.

 

[cedarlake23]

@hpreston @Persephone @symphvaria @acconrad @ericgereghty thanks so much for the feedback! I'll start trawling through this thread to pick up ideas. Regarding the budget, I guess I'm thinking of it as a constrained optimization exercise (i.e., minimize cost given the tuxedo has what I want). In the meantime, I'll reach out to those makers y'all listed and create an Ebay saved search.

 

[Faux Brummell]

My latest acquisition! According to the Black Tie Guide’s section on the 1930s:

“The acceptance of white jackets paved the way for other colors in summer evening coats and soon hues such as plum, dark green, wine and bright blue were being worn on the moonlit patios of Palm Beach.”

Plum, you say? Ok, you talked me into it! There’s a 1950s illustration that pairs a purple self-faced shawl collar jacket with a matching cummerbund - I doubt I’ll go that far, though I do enjoy taking inspiration from vintage illustrations and photos.

 

[psb]

After several weeks of "constuction time", the new dinner jacket has been delivered. I decided to have relatively wide peak lapels, as i like it on most of my jackets. If possible, i will send pictures from the "wearing premiere".

 

[gimpwiz]

Apologies if this is not the place to post this question, but I'm a complete black tie novice and am getting married in August. I want to wear a shawl collar tuxedo for it. I want something classically styled like The Armoury's Model 101 but can't stomach paying that much for a garment I'll maybe wear once a year going forward. I've looked online and can't seem to find anything similar. Could anyone offer advice?

Going vintage seems like a great way to get something reasonably priced and classically styled, but I live in DC and can't find any shops that offer it. Does anyone know of a place in NYC that does? Also, if anyone could link a primer on traditional tuxedo do's and don'ts I'd appreciate it. For example, I know it should be a single button with jetted pockets, but stuff like fabric composition and color, back vents, etc. I have no clue about. Thanks in advance!

Here is my personal TL;DR advice:

Jacket, full cut with natural or roped shoulders, black wool (barathea or wool/mohair blend), single breasted, peak or shawl lapels with satin or grosgrain facings, one button, low button stance; jetted pockets, no vents, four button cuffs, all buttons silk-faced or mother-of-pearl. Trousers, matching black wool, no back pockets, no belt loops, full cut, full-to-half break, vertical front pockets hidden under silk stripe (same silk as lapels). Black cummerbund with matching silk, or black vest with matching fabric that's cut with a deep U or V shape, single or double breasted. White french cuff shirt, marcella bib, takes 3 or 4 studs, worn with studs and cufflinks. Black calf or patent leather oxfords, clean and shiny, black shoelaces, wool socks. Black bowtie, same matching silk. White linen pocket square, square fold. Suspenders, any.

This is not a list of "rules," just a basic combination of classic choices. It is not remotely exhaustive and you can make many other choices but if you do this you cannot go wrong IMO. People will have opinions on details of course.

 

[upr_crust]

The weather in NYC today is seasonably cold and dry, and this evening, I will have the pleasure of attending a benefit party at the Morgan Library, for which I thought appropriate to dig out some "creative" formal wear that hasn't seen the light of day since the last holiday season. As it is a holiday party, I did jigger the color scheme a bit to skew green/red/gold - tis the season to be jolly and all of that.

Dinner jacket & trousers - Ede & Ravencroft
Shirt, tie, & stud set - Brooks Brothers
Braces & pocket square - New & Lingwood
Slippers - Paul Stuart
Overcoat - Paul Stuart/Phineas Cole
Scarf - Fortnum & Mason
Hat - Selentino, via JJ Hat Center, NYC

 

[upr_crust]

The weather in NYC continues to be sunny and cold, and today is Day 2 of black tie occasions in the holiday season. Today's occurrence came about from a series of happy coincidences, the first being my husband's work holiday party being scheduled for this evening, giving me license to seek entertainment elsewhere, which happened to be the last performance, this evening, of "Florencia en el Amazonas" at the Metropolitan Opera. I then discovered that this evening, early, was the holiday party for New & Lingwood's shop here in NYC, with a theme of black tie. All the dominoes fell tidily into place.

As I will be the guest of New & Lingwood, I thought it only fair that I wear as much swag from the shop as would be possible within the bounds of taste (for me, those bounds can be rather elastic, but I digress). Wishing also to change things up a bit from yesterday, I opted for some different accessories.

Dinner jacket, braces, and scarf - New & Lingwood
Shirt - Brooks Brothers
Tie - Seigo, NYC
Cufflinks - DVVS, NYC (now defunct)
Studs - no name brand, lost to the mists of time
Pocket square - Harvie & Hudson, London
Trousers - Ede & Ravenscroft
Shoes - Magnanni for Saks Fifth Avenue
Overcoat - Turnbull & Asser
Hat - Lock, London

Included in today's photos is one picture from last night's festivities at the Morgan - I with two other guests.

 

[Baked Potato]

Question regarding velvet tuxedos/dinner jackets; I've been thinking about adding a midnight navy tuxedo to my warderobe, but I'm unsure what the rules the correct rules are. I already have a regular black tuxedo with all the correct details, but what should I think about when it comes to this velvet variant I have in mind? No vents, of course, but what I'm really unsure of are the lapels. Should they be self-facing? Does the lapel material matter if it's a shawl lapel (I'm primarily thinking of going with peak lapels)? I have seen a RTW velvet tuxedo with gross-grain lapels, but that doesn't mean that it's correct. Also, anything I should think of when it comes to the buttons?

 

[DorianGreen]

 

[Faux Brummell]

Question regarding velvet tuxedos/dinner jackets; I've been thinking about adding a midnight navy tuxedo to my warderobe, but I'm unsure what the rules the correct rules are. I already have a regular black tuxedo with all the correct details, but what should I think about when it comes to this velvet variant I have in mind? No vents, of course, but what I'm really unsure of are the lapels. Should they be self-facing? Does the lapel material matter if it's a shawl lapel (I'm primarily thinking of going with peak lapels)? I have seen a RTW velvet tuxedo with gross-grain lapels, but that doesn't mean that it's correct. Also, anything I should think of when it comes to the buttons?

Self-faced, black grosgrain, and even colored satin (my favorite!) are all classic options for lapels on a velvet jacket.

 

[Baked Potato]

Self-faced, black grosgrain, and even colored satin (my favorite!) are all classic options for lapels on a velvet jacket.

Does the type of lapel (shawl/peak) matter? Can both be in any kind of material? Also, what about the buttons?

 

[Faux Brummell]

Does the type of lapel (shawl/peak) matter? Can both be in any kind of material? Also, what about the buttons?

The type of lapel doesn’t matter - in my previous post I included a couple of Douglas Fairbanks Jr.’s shawl collar jackets, and here he is wearing a peak lapel jacket in a similar style. I’m also attaching a photo of a vintage navy blue jacket with a contrasting burgundy velvet shawl collar in case you really wanna go nuts! I don’t know much about buttons so I’ll leave that to the others.

 

[gimpwiz]

Shawl or peak are your choice. The 'rules' are definitely looser for the velvet jacket; I have even seen some excellent jackets done with notches, which is not my personal preference but IMO a velvet jacket with a self-faced notch looks better than a more standard black wool jacket with a notch. And yeah, the options of self-faced, black satin, black grosgrain, other blank silks (shantung and faille to start), or other-color silks, are really your choice. Maybe someone has a velvet silk that works well with the velvet (usually cotton) jacket. Anyways, I've seen so much stuff, as long as you don't go with contrasting colors you're pretty much guaranteed to be fine, but even complementary colors (like the above dark blue velvet jacket with burgundy facing) can work, so... just don't go clown-ish and you'll be fine? Some options might even be acceptably worn without the full black tie rig, but more as an odd jacket, though in my experience seeking versatility often waters down the intent.

As for buttons, most I see are velvet-faced or silk-faced. I am sure you can get away with a nice MOP.

Remember, the more formal you go, the fewer options you get, the more it looks like a uniform. And vice versa, nearly infinite options when you casual it down. A smoking jacket being a less formal black tie option (versus your classic black wool jacket), you get more options. Lapels and lapel facing, buttons, etc, less prescriptive and more dealer's-choice.

If I did a midnight navy velvet jacket with peak lapels, my choices would depend on how formal I am trying to go. For the more-formal velvet look, I would stick to the classic black tie choices except in the shell material, which of course is velvet. For the less-formal velvet look, the world is wide(r) open - eg, I think I'd do dark navy or black MOP buttons, self-faced lapels, though possibly maybe midnight silk-lined pockets, but none of the optional decorative swirlies.

 

[Baked Potato]

Shawl or peak are your choice. The 'rules' are definitely looser for the velvet jacket; I have even seen some excellent jackets done with notches, which is not my personal preference but IMO a velvet jacket with a self-faced notch looks better than a more standard black wool jacket with a notch. And yeah, the options of self-faced, black satin, black grosgrain, other blank silks (shantung and faille to start), or other-color silks, are really your choice. Maybe someone has a velvet silk that works well with the velvet (usually cotton) jacket. Anyways, I've seen so much stuff, as long as you don't go with contrasting colors you're pretty much guaranteed to be fine, but even complementary colors (like the above dark blue velvet jacket with burgundy facing) can work, so... just don't go clown-ish and you'll be fine? Some options might even be acceptably worn without the full black tie rig, but more as an odd jacket, though in my experience seeking versatility often waters down the intent.

As for buttons, most I see are velvet-faced or silk-faced. I am sure you can get away with a nice MOP.

Remember, the more formal you go, the fewer options you get, the more it looks like a uniform. And vice versa, nearly infinite options when you casual it down. A smoking jacket being a less formal black tie option (versus your classic black wool jacket), you get more options. Lapels and lapel facing, buttons, etc, less prescriptive and more dealer's-choice.

If I did a midnight navy velvet jacket with peak lapels, my choices would depend on how formal I am trying to go. For the more-formal velvet look, I would stick to the classic black tie choices except in the shell material, which of course is velvet. For the less-formal velvet look, the world is wide(r) open - eg, I think I'd do dark navy or black MOP buttons, self-faced lapels, though possibly maybe midnight silk-lined pockets, but none of the optional decorative swirlies.

The type of lapel doesn’t matter - in my previous post I included a couple of Douglas Fairbanks Jr.’s shawl collar jackets, and here he is wearing a peak lapel jacket in a similar style. I’m also attaching a photo of a vintage navy blue jacket with a contrasting burgundy velvet shawl collar in case you really wanna go nuts! I don’t know much about buttons so I’ll leave that to the others.

This is what I'm thinking: A dinner jacket in Dugdale's midnight blue velvet with black grossgrain peak lapels, jetted pockets (black grosgrain lined), black grosgrain buttons (single buttoned and four kissing buttons on the sleeves) and no vents. For the trousers, this black wool barathea fabric from Dugdale (matching the weight of the velvet; both at 370g), with no back pockets, clean (hidden) waistband and grosgrain stripes (to match the jacket).

What do you think of the setup above? Are the trouser stripes to okay to match if I'd get another dinner jacket in the future with plain silk lapels?