The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[Faux Brummell]

This is what I'm thinking: A dinner jacket in Dugdale's midnight blue velvet with black grossgrain peak lapels, jetted pockets (black grosgrain lined), black grosgrain buttons (single buttoned and four kissing buttons on the sleeves) and no vents. For the trousers, this black wool barathea fabric from Dugdale (matching the weight of the velvet; both at 370g), with no back pockets, clean (hidden) waistband and grosgrain stripes (to match the jacket).

What do you think of the setup above? Are the trouser stripes to okay to match if I'd get another dinner jacket in the future with plain silk lapels?

I would vote for a cummerbund over a hidden waistband but overall your choices seem great. Technically the trouser stripe material should match your lapel material so it depends how much of a stickler you want to be.

 

[Baked Potato]

I would vote for a cummerbund over a hidden waistband but overall your choices seem great. Technically the trouser stripe material should match your lapel material so it depends how much of a stickler you want to be.

I already own a (grosgrain) cummberbund, so no worries there! What kind of waistband are you thinking of? I was thinking of a classic "tuxedo" waistband (no details such as pockets and hidden button, no side adjusters, as I'll use suspenders).

 

[Faux Brummell]

I already own a (grosgrain) cummberbund, so no worries there! What kind of waistband are you thinking of? I was thinking of a classic "tuxedo" waistband (no details such as pockets and hidden button, no side adjusters, as I'll use suspenders).

Pardon me, I was thinking you were referring to having a finished waistband in lieu of a cummerbund. Ignore me please!

 

[jeremygo]

If anyone is a size EU48, this is a steal. Sadly not my size

#1 MENSWEAR LNWOT Eidos Napoli Black Shantung Clr Ciro Lorenzo Tuxedo Suit 48 NR | eBay

Maker Eidos. Material Wool blend. Cuff height 0. Buttons in front DB. Condition Pre Owned.

www.ebay.com

 

[hpreston]

This is what I'm thinking: A dinner jacket in Dugdale's midnight blue velvet with black grossgrain peak lapels, jetted pockets (black grosgrain lined), black grosgrain buttons (single buttoned and four kissing buttons on the sleeves) and no vents. For the trousers, this black wool barathea fabric from Dugdale (matching the weight of the velvet; both at 370g), with no back pockets, clean (hidden) waistband and grosgrain stripes (to match the jacket).

What do you think of the setup above? Are the trouser stripes to okay to match if I'd get another dinner jacket in the future with plain silk lapels?

Generally, you want your lapels, buttons and trouser piping to all match, so whatever you think you’re going to do on a different jacket in the future, keep that in mind.

 

[gimpwiz]

This is what I'm thinking: A dinner jacket in Dugdale's midnight blue velvet with black grossgrain peak lapels, jetted pockets (black grosgrain lined), black grosgrain buttons (single buttoned and four kissing buttons on the sleeves) and no vents. For the trousers, this black wool barathea fabric from Dugdale (matching the weight of the velvet; both at 370g), with no back pockets, clean (hidden) waistband and grosgrain stripes (to match the jacket).

What do you think of the setup above? Are the trouser stripes to okay to match if I'd get another dinner jacket in the future with plain silk lapels?

Honestly, nobody is ever going to notice whether your formal trousers have a silk stripe in grosgrain vs satin or really any other silk weave. Well, maybe like three people will notice, ever. I wouldn't put in a whole new commission for formal trousers just to copy the previous ones with a different stripe... well, at least, it would be quite low on my priority list.

That said, having two formal trousers, if you have space (and budget) for them, is nice simply because you now own a spare, just in case. For that reason alone I might want 'one of each'.

If you are actively planning on getting another dinner jacket and want one pair formal trousers to serve both, I might more recommend ensuring you get the fabric for it in advance so it all comes from one bolt. Now really, black matches pretty well with black especially in poor light so it's unlikely that you'd end up *needing* a second pair of trousers just to match better, assuming the same fabric is still being made, it'll probably be fine.

So I guess TL;DR: For the best use of your budget, just get one pair formal trousers with the matching stripe today, and wear them in the future and don't worry too much about it. For the most rulebook correct option, if you make another jacket in the future with different silk, get a new set of trousers cut. For a middle ground, if you're sure you want one, purchase the right length of wool today to match trousers to jacket perfectly. The last option is kind of the most nitpicky because future-looking is always hard.

 

[hpreston]

Honestly, nobody is ever going to notice whether your formal trousers have a silk stripe in grosgrain vs satin or really any other silk weave. Well, maybe like three people will notice, ever. I wouldn't put in a whole new commission for formal trousers just to copy the previous ones with a different stripe... well, at least, it would be quite low on my priority list.

That said, having two formal trousers, if you have space (and budget) for them, is nice simply because you now own a spare, just in case. For that reason alone I might want 'one of each'.

If you are actively planning on getting another dinner jacket and want one pair formal trousers to serve both, I might more recommend ensuring you get the fabric for it in advance so it all comes from one bolt. Now really, black matches pretty well with black especially in poor light so it's unlikely that you'd end up *needing* a second pair of trousers just to match better, assuming the same fabric is still being made, it'll probably be fine.

So I guess TL;DR: For the best use of your budget, just get one pair formal trousers with the matching stripe today, and wear them in the future and don't worry too much about it. For the most rulebook correct option, if you make another jacket in the future with different silk, get a new set of trousers cut. For a middle ground, if you're sure you want one, purchase the right length of wool today to match trousers to jacket perfectly. The last option is kind of the most nitpicky because future-looking is always hard.

I mostly agree here. Let me caveat/add to what I posted above.

If you’re going to do a full matching tux in the future get that all to match ; body fabric, buttons facings/piping. The velvet jacket already doesn’t match so get that how ever you’d like…. I think it matters less if lapel facing and trouser piping match (or don’t) in a festive fit like formal trousers worn with a non matching velvet dinner jacket, than what is supposed to be a matching tux.

 

[Andy57]

This is what I'm thinking: A dinner jacket in Dugdale's midnight blue velvet with black grossgrain peak lapels, jetted pockets (black grosgrain lined), black grosgrain buttons (single buttoned and four kissing buttons on the sleeves) and no vents. For the trousers, this black wool barathea fabric from Dugdale (matching the weight of the velvet; both at 370g), with no back pockets, clean (hidden) waistband and grosgrain stripes (to match the jacket).

What do you think of the setup above? Are the trouser stripes to okay to match if I'd get another dinner jacket in the future with plain silk lapels?

Your trousers should be high-waisted and held up with suspenders. Make sure there is plenty of room around the waist—they should be very loose (and if you remove the suspenders, they should just slide right over your hips). Why? You'll be sitting and eating in tuxedo trousers, a lot. You'll want to be comfortable. The suspenders hold the trousers up, so give yourself plenty of room. Your tailor might balk at this, but they're not for him.

You can design a velvet dinner jacket pretty much any way you want. I have a bottle-green, single-breasted one with shawl lapels faced in grosgrain silk. I also have a gold velvet jacket, double-breasted, peak, self faced lapels. The green jacket has grosgrain-covered buttons, the gold one has self-covered buttons. No real rules.

Dark green jackets, though, are incredibly difficult to photograph.

 

[brax]

And let’s not forget @Andy57’s hack of having the jacket made with the velvet upside down, i.e., smooth as you rub bottom to top.

 

[Andy57]

And let’s not forget @Andy57’s hack of having the jacket made with the velvet upside down, i.e. smooth as you rub bottom to top.

Good point. I forgot to mention that.

 

[Baked Potato]

Thank you all for your replies! I just wanted to add that I already own a classic black tuxedo, so this is just a "fun" addition to the wardrobe.

I was also thinking of getting a pair of opera pumps. Would that be "too much", considering that a velvet dinner jacket might be a bit "extra" according to some? Something I really don't like about opera pumps is the very low cut of the shoe. Something with a tad higher vamp, but still having all the other classic attributes of the model would be perfect, but perhaps not quite as right.

 

[Faux Brummell]

Thank you all for your replies! I just wanted to add that I already own a classic black tuxedo, so this is just a "fun" addition to the wardrobe.

I was also thinking of getting a pair of opera pumps. Would that be "too much", considering that a velvet dinner jacket might be a bit "extra" according to some? Something I really don't like about opera pumps is the very low cut of the shoe. Something with a tad higher vamp, but still having all the other classic attributes of the model would be perfect, but perhaps not quite as right.

Formal loafers are an option but pumps are classic, they’d only be considered “too much” by somebody who doesn’t know black tie, and those people would turn up their noses at the velvet jacket too, so hell with them.

Spotlight: Formal Loafers

When I was first assembling my black-tie kit I was attracted to the distinguishing swank of formal pumps but ran into a few obstacles in my quest to obtain a pair. First and foremost, such footwea…

theblacktieblog.wordpress.com

 

[Baked Potato]

Formal loafers are an option but pumps are classic, they’d only be considered “too much” by somebody who doesn’t know black tie, and those people would turn up their noses at the velvet jacket too, so hell with them.

Spotlight: Formal Loafers

When I was first assembling my black-tie kit I was attracted to the distinguishing swank of formal pumps but ran into a few obstacles in my quest to obtain a pair. First and foremost, such footwea…

theblacktieblog.wordpress.com

Haha, quite right!

I must say, the “psuedo pumps” (from Mr. Hare Robeson) are exactly what I was thinking of! They look more or less just like a pair of opera pumps, but with a higher vamp. I guess those would be a rather good compromise, or do you guys think that the original opera pumps is the only way to go? Another question would be if it’s possible to find anything similar to those pseudo pumps, but at a lower price (don’t want to spend too much on shoes that will be worn for very specific event).

 

[Faux Brummell]

Haha, quite right!

I must say, the “psuedo pumps” (from Mr. Hare Robeson) are exactly what I was thinking of! They look more or less just like a pair of opera pumps, but with a higher vamp. I guess those would be a rather good compromise, or do you guys think that the original opera pumps is the only way to go? Another question would be if it’s possible to find anything similar to those pseudo pumps, but at a lower price (don’t want to spend too much on shoes that will be worn for very specific event).

I would encourage opera pumps (or, hey, maybe velvet Albert slippers), but they’re not everyone's cup of tea. Formal loafers can be very nice and these are currently on sale for fifty bucks:

Evening Patent Slip On

Faux Leather Based On Our Fit Testing, We Recommended You Order A Size Down From What You Usually Wear Slip On Elastic Strap Rubber Heel Imported

www.perryellis.com

 

[Baked Potato]

I would encourage opera pumps (or, hey, maybe velvet Albert slippers), but they’re not everyone's cup of tea. Formal loafers can be very nice and these are currently on sale for fifty bucks:

Evening Patent Slip On

Faux Leather Based On Our Fit Testing, We Recommended You Order A Size Down From What You Usually Wear Slip On Elastic Strap Rubber Heel Imported

www.perryellis.com

Thanks, but those aren’t really what I’m looking for. Basically, a high vamped opera pump would fit the bill.