The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[DavidJordan]

Assuming a lay down collar on the shirts, an even better style of bow tie would be a single ended. You adjust it every time you tie it, and no shoving a loop (bight) through. I've never tried one, but I get how it works since I can tie bows. They aren't very common online, or in the US.

Pocket watch in the watch pocket of the cummerbund, I suppose with some kind of black ribbon fob so it isn't seen until you look. That's if you know someone with one, or know any good ones for sale. It may be too much to add another thing to shop for and buy.

yes, both of my shirts will have lay down collars. Single-ended bow ties look elegant, but I already acquired and intend to use my modified butterfly bow tie by Le Noeud Papillon.

A pocket watch can be a delightful detail, but they do not align with my personal style.

 

[DavidJordan]

For the ivory DJ, suggest full lining in white/ivory. Bemberg since it wears cooler than silk. Reason being that ivory fabrics tend to be more see-through, and this avoids potentially having the black trousers (or anything else e.g. braces) showing through.

thank you Etostano, I am leaning to go with a full bemberg lining in white or an off white that is more subtle than the color of the main cloth for the ivory dinner jacket.

 

[DavidJordan]

Or this one brand new for $150.

View attachment 1878098

Thank you for sharing—those are beautiful dress watches, but I will either go watchless or commit the great (but hidden) sin of donning my dive watch under the cuff for the cocktail hour and reception.

 

[DavidJordan]

My 2¢ - Don’t buy a cheap dress watch just to have a dress watch to wear to your wedding. If you want a dress watch anyways and want something you can hang onto as a keepsake then sure find a good dress watch you like. But watches, dress or otherwise, aren’t a requirement or even a part of a rig.

Thank you for sharing, I agree with your perspective.

 

[DavidJordan]

My Turnbull & Asser cummerbund arrived a couple of days ago. I'm very pleased with the product and am looking forward to wearing it on my wedding day.

 

[Nick Charles]

Thank you for the kind words and insights!

1) How will no vents and on a related note, buttoning the single button to close the front of the jacket, affect dancing, such as for the first dance, which may include me lifting and spinning my wife?

4) Ok great, thank you for sharing.

That's interesting, I had not considered pre-tying my bow-tie. I might do that. Or I might keep practicing and tie it on the day of.

Thank you again!

1) Vents are traditionally less formal, as they derive from horse riding outfits, but they do serve to promote drape and comfort so have been allowed into formal dress. I went double vented for my wedding tux even though I know it doesn't look as good when shot from behind. Men of action like Fred Astaire and James Bond wore vented tuxedos. Fred also had pleated pants which allow more freedom.

However, unless you and your lucky bride intend on engaging in an elaborate swing dance routine replete with vigorous lifts and flips followed by a spirited round of Russian Kazotsky Kicks, your no-vent tuxedo should be fine. There is a long history of people dancing in tuxedos. The key is that the cut is loose enough to allow movement. In olden times that would be assumed as that was part of having a suit that fit. These days, some people like their suits on the tight side which could cause problems, especially for that poor little button fighting to hold everything together.

When you try on the suit for the first time, don't just stand there admiring how awesome you look, move your arms around, maybe do a little jig, even. If it doesn't, then the tailor can adjust. Whatever number of vents you get, the suit should look great while giving you comfortable freedom of movement. That's what counts.

Would be interested in others experiences with mobility in no-vent DJs.

Here's a link to a good article on vents: https://www.bondsuits.com/the-case-for-the-vented-dinner-jacket/

As for the button, one button is most formal and thus most appropriate for most black tie events. Leave the two buttons for your other suits.

 

[brax]

1. No vents.
4. No watch > dress watch. But never sports watch.

 

[JIMIG]

Need to upgrade my black tie rig, and I am aiming for something classic/traditional.

I am considering this second hand tuxedo. Not sure how old it is. It is a size 98. Back length 82 cm (2-3 cm longer than my SCs, but hopefully ok), front rise 30.5 cm, thigh 33.5 cm and hem 21.5 cm.

1) Do you know anything about the cut and quality of Corneliani linea sartoria? Couldn’t find much info on google.

2) what do you think of the cut and proportions? I have tried a new Corneliani Academy suit and the trousers were low rise and tight, but these seem better based on measurements

 

[gimpwiz]

What're the dimensions on your own (high rise) trousers? To me, the rise seems fairly reasonable for tux pants, and I assume the rise + inseam match your own body adequately. If the coat fits well in shoulders and chest, I think an extra 2-3cm in length is forgivable (if not desirable, as some might say - it seems people like a dinner jacket to be a bit longer than a suit jacket.)

 

[Andy57]

thank you Etostano, I am leaning to go with a full bemberg lining in white or an off white that is more subtle than the color of the main cloth for the ivory dinner jacket.

Been away for a few weeks, so catching up on this thread. My two cents worth is this:

Vents: absolutely not, ever. A no vent jacket is correct for black tie, is perfectly comfortable, does not prevent you putting your hand in your pocket (not that you should stand around with your hands in your pockets anyway). If you go with vents (one or two, doesn't matter) you will look like a rube.

Lining: full lining in bemberg, always. For your black jacket you can go with a color, such as a deep burgundy or something like that. For an ivory jacket, use a plain cream lining. Any pattern will potentially show through the jacket.

 

[Jazzthief]

Been away for a few weeks, so catching up on this thread. My two cents worth is this:

Vents: absolutely not, ever. A no vent jacket is correct for black tie, is perfectly comfortable, does not prevent you putting your hand in your pocket (not that you should stand around with your hands in your pockets anyway). If you go with vents (one or two, doesn't matter) you will look like a rube.

Lining: full lining in bemberg, always. For your black jacket you can go with a color, such as a deep burgundy or something like that. For an ivory jacket, use a plain cream lining. Any pattern will potentially show through the jacket.

Great advice. Do you have your velvet jackets without vents, as well?

 

[Andy57]

Great advice. Do you have your velvet jackets without vents, as well?

Yes, without vents.

 

[DavidJordan]

Been away for a few weeks, so catching up on this thread. My two cents worth is this:

Vents: absolutely not, ever. A no vent jacket is correct for black tie, is perfectly comfortable, does not prevent you putting your hand in your pocket (not that you should stand around with your hands in your pockets anyway). If you go with vents (one or two, doesn't matter) you will look like a rube.

Lining: full lining in bemberg, always. For your black jacket you can go with a color, such as a deep burgundy or something like that. For an ivory jacket, use a plain cream lining. Any pattern will potentially show through the jacket.

Andy,

Why are you so vehemently opposed to side vents on dinner jackets? I've heard many sources, including the Black Tie Guide, Michael Andrews Bespoke, and He Spoke Style say that side vents are an acceptable modern deviation, defensible for gentlemen who move about, or permissible for other reasons.

I acknowledge that ventless dinner jackets are most classic, but I disagree that donning a dinner jacket with two vents immediately transforms the wearer into a country bumpkin.

 

[Andy57]

Andy,

Why are you so vehemently opposed to side vents on dinner jackets? I've heard many sources, including the Black Tie Guide, Michael Andrews Bespoke, and He Spoke Style say that side vents are an acceptable modern deviation, defensible for gentlemen who move about, or permissible for other reasons.

I acknowledge that ventless dinner jackets are most classic, but I disagree that donning a dinner jacket with two vents immediately transforms the wearer into a country bumpkin.

Because those rationalizations are really just excuses for laziness. Vents add nothing in terms of real utility to a dinner jacket and detract a great deal. One of the things black tie is trying to accomplish is to set a clear demarcation between day wear and evening wear. So, bringing elements of day wear into black tie defeats that objective. A ventless jacket creates a cleaner line, which is part of the allure of the look. If you don't want to create that sense of verticality, then why bother at all?

The idea that a ventless jacket somehow restricts movement is pure bullshit.

Wearing a dinner jacket with vents won't immediately transform you into a country bumpkin, but it does propel you down that road. To complete the transformation, you should have two buttons or more on the jacket and notch lapels.

Black tie "rules" aren't really rules, of course. But they are guidelines that indicate how to achieve that evening look that is different from work clothes (meaning, in this instance, a business suit), how to do it right, and, to a certain extent knowing why these guidelines exist, what is trying to be achieved, helps a great deal. If one does not wish to follow the guidelines, then, really, why bother at all? Why not do it right, because one can, for its own sake? So, while you may not actually be a country bumpkin, why advertise to the world that you don't know any better?

 

[Andy57]

Meanwhile, some black tie looks out in the wild. First, in Florence, my wife and I demonstrating our vacuousness by pointing at a picture of us in evening wear, while in evening wear, the evening before Pitti starts:

And we bumped into Internet superstar @UrbanComposition, too:

Frustratingly, I didn't get a good shot at the following evening's Plaza Uomo party, so skipping ahead to Wednesday and the WMBrown event:

The venue ran out of Negronis, so we make do with Gin & Tonics:

And finally, Saturday evening, in Como:

With Negronis in hand, as one does.

With two jackets and two pairs of trousers, it is therefore possible to attend four events without repeating an outfit, although there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing the same classic black look every time. I just choose not to.