The Definitive MANBAG Thread, Part II: 2014~

[rach2jlc]



I wish I could justify using a maker such as April in Paris, but this is not a AiP bag. This does, however, indicate that the bag looks rather more expensive than it actually was. The bag was made by forum affiliate Luxire. There are a few things that didn't end up quite as specified, mainly the feet of the bag, but I'm overall very pleased with the end result compared to the cost of the bag. I'll probably do a full write-up of the long distance bespoke process and review this weekend. I might get another bag in the same design in a smaller size for a daily carry in due time.

That's great; of course it is hard to see just from a few pics, but the construction looks pretty solid. Yes, I'm also looking forward to a review. I haven't checked out Luxire, but might do so!

 

[il_colonnello]

I looked around on the Hermès Web site a bit. Couldn't find the Plume posted earlier, but most of the bags I looked at cost somewhere around 5,000 euros (order of magnitude). The more I think about this, the more I wonder if that kind of expense could ever be justified in the (very) long term - like if you were to use a bag for decades, a lifetime. Is that conceivable? Do Hermès bags have the leather and build quality to use them... forever, basically? Or do they look beat up after a few years like other makes?

I looked at an inexpensive no-name department store briefcase yesterday that I bought not even that long ago - ca 2012 maybe - and it looked so beat up from not even that much use, that I thought, if I knew I'd be using a 5k-Hermès for the next 30-40 years, I could almost maybe persuade myself to spend that once, now, and be done with it forever...

 

[rach2jlc]



I looked around on the Hermès Web site a bit. Couldn't find the Plume posted earlier, but most of the bags I looked at cost somewhere around 5,000 euros (order of magnitude). The more I think about this, the more I wonder if that kind of expense could ever be justified in the (very) long term - like if you were to use a bag for decades, a lifetime. Is that conceivable? Do Hermès bags have the leather and build quality to use them... forever, basically? Or do they look beat up after a few years like other makes?

I looked at an inexpensive no-name department store briefcase yesterday that I bought not even that long ago - ca 2012 maybe - and it looked so beat up from not even that much use, that I thought, if I knew I'd be using a 5k-Hermès for the next 30-40 years, I could almost maybe persuade myself to spend that once, now, and be done with it forever...

I've mentioned almost ad nauseum that Hermes prices are crazy. I posted the pic (and others) just as a reference image for the style. I'd never spend what Hermes is asking or anything close to it, especially given the large number of other very high quality makers out there with good bang-for-buck. I pretty much stopped even considering Hermes back a few years ago when I was in a boutique and saw a lovely calfskin messenger bag. I assumed it would be in the $3000 range... and it was nearly $9.000. It let me know that I was far, far, far, out of my depth.

 

[Benjaminba]

I wish I could justify using a maker such as April in Paris, but this is not a AiP bag. This does, however, indicate that the bag looks rather more expensive than it actually was. The bag was made by forum affiliate Luxire. There are a few things that didn't end up quite as specified, mainly the feet of the bag, but I'm overall very pleased with the end result compared to the cost of the bag. I'll probably do a full write-up of the long distance bespoke process and review this weekend. I might get another bag in the same design in a smaller size for a daily carry in due time.

I would be very interested in hearing about the process. Been considering using Luxire for a bag, since I haven't found one that meets my requirements in terms of size/utility.

 

[angusangus]



If you like a zip-top, rounded handle attache, you really can't do any better than the classic document holder. Probably the nicest example is the Hermes Plume: simple, holds a lot, looks neither too feminine NOR too clunky, and never goes out of style. Lots of brands make similar styles, so you have choices without having to mortgage your house.

I'm looking for something in a similar style to that Plume but preferably in good-quality nylon or canvas for a slightly more rugged feel -- can anyone think of anything that fits that bill?

I see that Le Tanneur offers some lovely looking options but the nylon ones aren't quite as attractive as their leather designs..

I just want to avoid getting the default Filson

 

[il_colonnello]



I've mentioned almost ad nauseum that Hermes prices are crazy. I posted the pic (and others) just as a reference image for the style. I'd never spend what Hermes is asking or anything close to it, especially given the large number of other very high quality makers out there with good bang-for-buck. I pretty much stopped even considering Hermes back a few years ago when I was in a boutique and saw a lovely calfskin messenger bag. I assumed it would be in the $3000 range... and it was nearly $9.000. It let me know that I was far, far, far, out of my depth.

hey rach,

I was never an avid follower of the old thread, so wouldn't know if or what "consensus" was reached there re: Hermès or other designer labels' bags. I do know from cursory perusing that thread (and other sites) that other supposedly high-level makers got panned as well (including Lanvin and Dior), so I thought maybe the safest option was to choose the one make that generally seems to be held in the highest esteem.

I do note that you have not said anything in this post against Hermès' quality but "only" against their being overpriced.

Anyway, I'm not about to pull the trigger on anything; I'm in no rush. I'll keep looking around a bit.

 

[rach2jlc]



hey rach,

I was never an avid follower of the old thread, so wouldn't know if or what "consensus" was reached there re: Hermès or other designer labels' bags. I do know from cursory perusing that thread (and other sites) that other supposedly high-level makers got panned as well (including Lanvin and Dior), so I thought maybe the safest option was to choose the one make that generally seems to be held in the highest esteem.

I do note that you have not said anything in this post against Hermès' quality but "only" against their being overpriced.

Anyway, I'm not about to pull the trigger on anything; I'm in no rush. I'll keep looking around a bit.

I didn't mean to sound snarky; I actually totally agree with you overall. I don't think these days that the prices of Hermes (at retail) can be justified by use or longevity or ANY reason except (1) you get it as a gift (2) you have so much money you don't care and (3) you REALLY want something that says "HERMES!" on it. However, you are correct, I have no issue with the quality AS SUCH; you'll find few cut corners on their bags and only the best materials. Pretty much it's just the pricing that leaves me going HOLY S&%#!

That being said, something I wonder whether there are small losses in craftsmanship simply given the increase in production; when you make things by hand and have a 1000% percent increase in output, you either require your artisans to make MORE bags per day or train more artisans... and experienced craftsmanship doesn't come over night. Even with the exact same materials and methods... I wonder if there wouldn't inevitably be some TINY differences between a bag made by a veteran and one made by a recent graduate. I feel this way moreso with LV than with Hermes; but it's still something I wonder...

HOWEVER, on the used/aftermarket you can get Hermes much more reasonably. In Japan I regularly saw/see really stellar Hermes stuff in the $2000 range in EUC. You could probably get the canvas/leather Plume posted above used for in the 150,000 yen range ($1300-1400) or full leather for 200,000 ($1700-1800). I think it would be well worth that and would last you a lifetime.

Speaking of retail, though, when I was growing up and even until I was out of college and working into the early/mid 2000's, my image of Hermes was certainly that it was a premium brand... the "best" premium brand. It was more expensive than the others (Chanel notwithstanding) and aspirational, but wasn't a hilarious joke; it didn't strike me as one that only the absolute .00001% would or could buy. After all, it is basically a RTW brand; to me the Bugatti or Bentley crowd went bespoke made by artisans the general public never heard of and with whom one couldn't even get an appointment.

Some friends who had parents who were executives for companies (one a very classy lady who worked for IBM) would shop there to get scarves and even bags. A successful doctor or lawyer could have a sac a depeches. Neither of these people were millionaires or getting his/her Vicuna sportcoats at Caraceni. BUT, now at nearly $10k... I no longer really understand either WHO their target customer is or WHY anybody would really consider it (unless, of course, their target are new millionaires in emerging markets who really don't care how much it costs so long as it comes in an orange box).

 

[Jakezero]

My review of the process of getting a bag made by Luxire can now be found in their affiliate thread:

http://www.styleforum.net/t/304965/...-official-affiliate-thread/17790#post_7932516

 

[il_colonnello]



I didn't mean to sound snarky; I actually totally agree with you overall. I don't think these days that the prices of Hermes (at retail) can be justified by use or longevity or ANY reason except (1) you get it as a gift (2) you have so much money you don't care and (3) you REALLY want something that says "HERMES!" on it. However, you are correct, I have no issue with the quality AS SUCH; you'll find few cut corners on their bags and only the best materials. Pretty much it's just the pricing that leaves me going HOLY S&%#!

That being said, something I wonder whether there are small losses in craftsmanship simply given the increase in production; when you make things by hand and have a 1000% percent increase in output, you either require your artisans to make MORE bags per day or train more artisans... and experienced craftsmanship doesn't come over night. Even with the exact same materials and methods... I wonder if there wouldn't inevitably be some TINY differences between a bag made by a veteran and one made by a recent graduate. I feel this way moreso with LV than with Hermes; but it's still something I wonder...

HOWEVER, on the used/aftermarket you can get Hermes much more reasonably. In Japan I regularly saw/see really stellar Hermes stuff in the $2000 range in EUC. You could probably get the canvas/leather Plume posted above used for in the 150,000 yen range ($1300-1400) or full leather for 200,000 ($1700-1800). I think it would be well worth that and would last you a lifetime.

Speaking of retail, though, when I was growing up and even until I was out of college and working into the early/mid 2000's, my image of Hermes was certainly that it was a premium brand... the "best" premium brand. It was more expensive than the others (Chanel notwithstanding) and aspirational, but wasn't a hilarious joke; it didn't strike me as one that only the absolute .00001% would or could buy. After all, it is basically a RTW brand; to me the Bugatti or Bentley crowd went bespoke made by artisans the general public never heard of and with whom one couldn't even get an appointment.

Some friends who had parents who were executives for companies (one a very classy lady who worked for IBM) would shop there to get scarves and even bags. A successful doctor or lawyer could have a sac a depeches. Neither of these people were millionaires or getting his/her Vicuna sportcoats at Caraceni. BUT, now at nearly $10k... I no longer really understand either WHO their target customer is or WHY anybody would really consider it (unless, of course, their target are new millionaires in emerging markets who really don't care how much it costs so long as it comes in an orange box).

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have to admit that, although I tend to look down on ostentatious Gucci-type brand-whoring I can be a bit of a brand whore myself when the brand is a name that I look up to design or quality-wise. (That's why I'm dismayed at negative reviews of Lanvin bags as that would normally be my want-to-have brand.) So yeah I guess I am willing to pay extra for having something with a certain name on it - now I only need to figure out any more if I am ready to pay that much extra!

Thanks for the tips on used Hermès bags. While I have nothing in principle against getting a used briefcase (all the more so if we're talking about a brand where that makes a world of difference in price), I don't think that this is a possibility I can actively pursue; it would have to open up as a coincidence (I wouldn't even enter the search term on ebay; I'm too afraid that that's just calling for getting defrauded).

The same friend who I said in an ealier post got a Jil handbag recently also owns a Hermès Birkin bag and I have to say it looks stellar considering its years of use - much much better than a Balenciaga bag of hers (not cheap either) that she's only had for a little over a year. Btw she also owns Bottega Veneta bags and has suggested that I look into their men's bags. Do you maybe have any experience with them that you can share? Bottega would be a much lower pricepoint than Hermès but still a maker of the highest reputation.

 

[rach2jlc]



Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have to admit that, although I tend to look down on ostentatious Gucci-type brand-whoring I can be a bit of a brand whore myself when the brand is a name that I look up to design or quality-wise. (That's why I'm dismayed at negative reviews of Lanvin bags as that would normally be my want-to-have brand.) So yeah I guess I am willing to pay extra for having something with a certain name on it - now I only need to figure out any more if I am ready to pay that much extra!

Thanks for the tips on used Hermès bags. While I have nothing in principle against getting a used briefcase (all the more so if we're talking about a brand where that makes a world of difference in price), I don't think that this is a possibility I can actively pursue; it would have to open up as a coincidence (I wouldn't even enter the search term on ebay; I'm too afraid that that's just calling for getting defrauded).

The same friend who I said in an ealier post got a Jil handbag recently also owns a Hermès Birkin bag and I have to say it looks stellar considering its years of use - much much better than a Balenciaga bag of hers (not cheap either) that she's only had for a little over a year. Btw she also owns Bottega Veneta bags and has suggested that I look into their men's bags. Do you maybe have any experience with them that you can share? Bottega would be a much lower pricepoint than Hermès but still a maker of the highest reputation.

Yes, I wouldn't recommend buying a used bag online from a major brand unless you had some experience; it could be a disaster given how many fakes are out there. This is especially true of Hermes; even used you'll be well north of $1000 for virtually any bag and so wouldn't want to risk getting a fake.

Bottega Veneta is very nice; I love the styling and the quality (at least in my experience) has been very good. It tends to be a softer, more "relaxed" aesthetic than Hermes and often the leathers are very soft and lightweight... which will show some wear and use with time. I tend to like how they wear and patina and even think that damage to them (scuffs to the leather, some pulls or worn buckles) gives them charm... but an hermes Birkin in Clemence or Togo (two of their most common leathers) is, pardon the pun, an entirely different animal.

With any of my reviews/opinions, they must be taken with a grain of salt and the realization that many are several seasons out of date. Brands work on a seasonal schedule putting out 2-3 accessories collections EVERY year. I don't keep up with them except when they cross my own shopping interests... and in reality brands change license holders, listen to or ignore customer complaints, etc. ALL the time. SO, my history with Lanvin showed lackluster quality for the price... but that is now several seasons ago. They may have changed their standards and are better know; I don't know. That's also why I started the "PART TWO" to the manbag thread; the original made in 2008 or 2009 by 2014 is almost completely irrelevant.

Overall, were I in your position of wanting a nice, long lasting, high quality bag with a brand name... certainly Bottega would be up there. I also had good experience with Alexander McQueen, but again haven't seen one up close in a few years. You might also look at Tomas Maier... the eponymous label from the Bottega designer. He does really nice accessories as well that fly under the radar, are well made, but don't get the ultra premium just for the label. There is also Tom Ford, who is very pricey but still nothing at Hermes level. I have an admitted soft spot for the dark chocolate brown "Buckley" briefcase.

 

[DesignerValet]



The more I think about this, the more I wonder if that kind of expense could ever be justified in the (very) long term - like if you were to use a bag for decades, a lifetime. Is that conceivable? Do Hermès bags have the leather and build quality to use them... forever, basically? Or do they look beat up after a few years like other makes?

Trying to justify the price of designer anything is a fool's errand. The actual cost of materials/production labor is such a minimal part of the final retail price that you'll never be satisfied if you're truly a "value" shopper. Some of the leather goods brands featured here or over in the Men's Clothing forum are excellent quality and reasonably priced- they are also, in my opinion, incredibly ugly.

In the end, the question is: how much are you willing to pay for name-brand design? Do you insist upon Herman Miller furniture or are you perfectly happy with similar knockoffs for a fraction of the price?

Hermes bags are very well-made and use the best-quality hides. They will last a long time, but like any bag, they will show wear. You can have them refurbished at Hermes, though the cost will run into the hundreds of dollars. Unless you're already buying a new designer briefcase every year, you will probably never "save" money buying and keeping an Hermes version for life.

 

[DesignerValet]



I'm looking for something in a similar style to that Plume but preferably in good-quality nylon or canvas for a slightly more rugged feel -- can anyone think of anything that fits that bill?

I can't really think of an attractive, good-quality canvas bag at a Filson pricepoint. Jack Spade comes to mind, but the quality is meh.

Bottega would be a much lower pricepoint than Hermès but still a maker of the highest reputation.

Buy something well-made that speaks to you; I wouldn't pick a brand first and then insist upon choosing something from it. BV looks/feels nothing like Hermes, Lanvin, LV, etc.

I find Lanvin to be perfectly fine of you can get it on sale. I have a lovely bullcalf tote from them that is reasonably well-made.

Bottega Veneta is very nice; I love the styling and the quality (at least in my experience) has been very good. It tends to be a softer, more "relaxed" aesthetic than Hermes and often the leathers are very soft and lightweight... which will show some wear and use with time.

This...BV leather goods don't do a thing for me. The shapes are too floppy and the colors too muddy for my personal taste. Quality is good, though.

Tom Ford is like the men's Celine: great design, reasonably good quality, fabulous marketing, selective distribution, and very high prices. Quality isn't up to Hermes standards, but it's 1/3 as expensive.

 

[razl]

My girlfriend and I have recently re-taken up going to the beach semi-regularly and I realized I needed a tote - something I could throw an extra pair of shorts, maybe a shirt, a mag or two, the phone+keys+wallet, and some odds+ends. I was using my backpack but it just wasn't working well and, worse, since it's my nice hiking pack, I wasn't happy about sand getting in it.

I'm not really a "bag guy" to begin with and this is new territory for me, but after coming up with a quick checklist - needed to have a shoulder strap (preferably detachable), must have a zipper across the top (to keep things in when travelling), would like an outside pocket or two, an inside pocket would be nice too, and probably in primarily nylon, canvas, or waxed cotton. I also need it in medium to medium large sized, enough to hold my list above. Also, not something foo-foo - I'm going to use this and do not want to worry about it getting wet, dirty, etc.

I think I found something that is going to work well and is reasonably priced @ $90 - the Billykirk Tote collab with Target. I got the olive version like this but there's also a tan and black ver too.

Ticks all my checkboxes and is reasonably sized at 16x14x6 (I really like the 6" depth), I could probably stand for it to be a little bigger but maybe it'll help me be a better light packer...

Anyhow, I hadn't seen it mentioned and thought it might be useful to someone else. It's still a day away in shipping so no hands on experience yet, I'll update once I get my mits on it...

ps - my final short list that I didn't get included:

fjallraven totepack 2.0 ( http://www.fjallraven.com/totepack-no-2 )

sscy tack bag ( http://www.sscy.org/tack.html )

jack spade pilot lift bag ( http://www.jackspade.com/pilot-nylon-lift-pack/NYRU2055.html?cm_vc=xsellPDP )

and the jack spade small brick tote ( http://www.jackspade.com/field-cordura®-small-brick-tote/NYRU2079.html?pid=NYRU2079 )

 

[rach2jlc]

No good recs for the above, but for my own summer use I like interesting textile prints and materials. Soft, slouchy, relaxed fabric, canvas, straw, thin suedes or woven patterns, etc. Etro, BV, Marni (hello DesignerValet!) and Missoni do really wonderful Spring/Summer bags that are great for the beach, for travel, or for the Mediterranean. The older Vukmirovic-designed Trussardi 1911 are also fun.

 

[angusangus]



I can't really think of an attractive, good-quality canvas bag at a Filson pricepoint. Jack Spade comes to mind, but the quality is meh.

Agreed -- too many Jack Spade-alikes and not enough reputable makers.

Price point isn't really my issue, I just want to find the right bag. Did you have something in mind at higher odds?