Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

[Fiddler]

yes

That is a ******* sole!

 

[DWFII]



I don't think that Bengal Stripe was implying that this was the norm for RTW makers, he pointed out the techniques how to stabilise the waist.

To what purpose? He quoted me. I had no problem with him doing that nor, on the face of it, the material that he presented. But, I know how to stabilize a waist (even if that's not entirely what I was referring to), I don't think I need lessons. If the material was being presented for the benefit of others that's fine but quoting me, esp. if it's misinterpreted, begs a clarification on my part...at the very least. And that's what I tried to do.

Part of that clarification is, one...both the insole and heel stiffener he displayed are not typical of RTW work. Yet most bespoke shoemakers would hesitate to make so narrow a waist for the reasons I outlined. So either the shoe with the narrow waist is RTW...and the insole and heel stiffener that BS presented immaterial/moot...or the shoe is atypical bespoke work. I suspect the first explanation is the correct one.

And two, the issue really isn't, and wasn't, about stabilization of the waist at all but about the overhang of the insole and a concomitant vulnerability of the vamp because of it. The major reason shoes have a separate outsole is to protect the shoe...specifically the vamp where it interfaces with the real world--ie. the ground. Any outsole technique that fails to protect the shoe should rightfully be questioned. If you like you can imagine the shoe without an outsole. What would you expect if you walked around in it? The insole, and the vamp where it was pulled over the insole, would quickly wear away. If you cut the outsole such that it exposes...fails to protect...those very same surfaces, you expose the shoe to the same vulnerabilities.

I suspect that there's a catch-22 here...you may need to be a shoemaker to understand what a shoemaker sees in such circumstances. It's the ethos I spoke of earlier. Perhaps that explains why my remarks were misinterpreted and inappropriate explanations proffered.

 

[TehBunny]

Somebody get me some **** to kick pls...

 

[chogall]



To what purpose? He quoted me. I had no problem with him doing that nor, on the face of it, the material that he presented. But, I know how to stabilize a waist (even if that's not entirely what I was referring to), I don't think I need lessons. If the material was being presented for the benefit of others that's fine but quoting me, esp. if it's misinterpreted, begs a clarification on my part...at the very least. And that's what I tried to do.

Part of that clarification is, one...both the insole and heel stiffener he displayed are not typical of RTW work. Yet most bespoke shoemakers would hesitate to make so narrow a waist for the reasons I outlined. So either the shoe with the narrow waist is RTW...and the insole and heel stiffener that BS presented immaterial/moot...or the shoe is atypical bespoke work. I suspect the first explanation is the correct one.

And two, the issue really isn't, and wasn't, about stabilization of the waist at all but about the overhang of the insole and a concomitant vulnerability of the vamp because of it. The major reason shoes have a separate outsole is to protect the shoe...specifically the vamp where it interfaces with the real world--ie. the ground. Any outsole technique that fails to protect the shoe should rightfully be questioned. If you like you can imagine the shoe without an outsole. What would you expect if you walked around in it? The insole, and the vamp where it was pulled over the insole, would quickly wear away. If you cut the outsole such that it exposes...fails to protect...those very same surfaces, you expose the shoe to the same vulnerabilities.

I suspect that there's a catch-22 here...you may need to be a shoemaker to understand what a shoemaker sees in such circumstances. It's the ethos I spoke of earlier. Perhaps that explains why my remarks were misinterpreted and inappropriate explanations proffered.

Most RTW makers don't have those stabilizing heel cups and some even uses heat formed plastic.

On the bespoke shoes with such narrow waist that I've handled, the upper around the thin waist are definitely stiffened by either or both stiffeners and curved insoles.

 

[AndrewJS0220]

 

[VRaivio]

I've owned a pair of Dinkelackers once. Their lasts are ugly, roomy blobs, but this is just part of the maker's ethos. They make them once -- and they make them last. All is done by hand with Hungarian methods. They really do last a fallout winter. Even in Sweden.

This webstore has a bit more info in English: www.menshoes.de

 

[DWFII]



Most RTW makers don't have those stabilizing heel cups and some even uses heat formed plastic.

On the bespoke shoes with such narrow waist that I've handled, the upper around the thin waist are definitely stiffened by either or both stiffeners and curved insoles.

+1 Right on all counts.

Many, if not most, bespoke shoes will be "stiffened" through the waist regardless of the way the outsole is cut. I use "mid-liners" in all my shoes. I also make my heel stiffeners a bit longer than many/most RTW shoes--the heel stiffener is actually as long as the last itself although it wraps around the back of the heel.The mid-liners extend from the leading edge of the heel stiffener to the trailing edge of the toe stiffener.

Few, if any RTW makers use mid-liners, long heel stiffeners or arch supporting insoles.

But again, as interesting as all this is, the original strand of the thread was not about stiffening or stabilization but about exposing a weight bearing, plantar surface to potential wear.

All that said,, I've never seen a bespoke shoe with such a narrow waist--no reason unless the insole was similarly narrow (a point I raised in my original comments). And any maker that understands feet...or is making shoes for real world feet...would, I suspect, be hesitant to make the insole that narrow, nevermind the outsole.

And IIRC, there was a fairly big brouhaha not so long ago on this forum about how ugly a pair of Tom Fords with a similar waist, were.

--

 

[bengal-stripe]



Yet most bespoke shoemakers would hesitate to make so narrow a waist for the reasons I outlined......or the shoe is atypical bespoke work.

All that said,, I've never seen a bespoke shoe with such a narrow waist-

Koji Suzuki

Masura Okuyama

Yohei Fukuda

Anthony Delos

 

[rikod]



Koji Suzuki

This is pretty

 

[nutcracker]

Alden`s new and improved Modified Last.... )))

an April Fool`s image made up by a Japanese retailer

 

[DWFII]



...

Go back and read my comments again. I didn't say that I'd never seen a narrow waist...I said "I've never seen a bespoke shoe with such a narrow waist" (as the one posted at the beginning of this conversation). I make many of my waists as narrow as the ones you posted. It is a look that I said I liked...again if you read the conversation and not just kibitz..

You have a lot of knowledge and you're to be commended for that--at least you don't choose to be entirely ignorant. But I don't think you even know what you're looking at in the photos you posted. Where is the edge of the insole relative to the edge of the outsole? I suspect you couldn't tell. I couldn't...not with 100% certainty. Without knowing that, your photos and all the rest, are just exercises in non sequitur, at best...or, at worst, another misguided attempt to present yourself as a jedi, albeit one who has never felt the "force."

With all due respect, if you're not a shoemaker...if you don't have leather dust down deep in your lungs; rosin and pitch under your fingernails; if your fingers don't know what it feels like to split a bristle or wrap the taw; if your muscles don't remember the amount of controlled force it takes to pull a waxed end through the holdfast; if your back doesn't have at least a slight (but permanent) curve to it from bending over the work for years; you simply don't know what you're talking about. It's all opinion and not much different from what you can pull off of Wikipedia.

Having said that I have to ask myself why you're so intent on busting my junk when what I said was that "I have not seen"...which is very different from "there are no...".

In that context, your photos are just a diversion from the issue at hand, and contribute nothing positive...or of value to the conversation.

--

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

Daaaaaaamn...!

 

[Roguls]



These Behemoths just came up via Panta's email list: handmade in Hungary by Heinrich Dinkelacker.

Triple oak bark leather soles, Horween shell cordovan uppers, built to last a fallout. Also for non-preppers.

Isn't Epaulet going to start carrying this brand?

 

[SuitedDx]

Interesting to see the common narrow heel of the Japanese makers... would definitely affect my lateral movements. They are like the antithesis of the Barrie heel.

 

[albuddah]