Sam Hober v Carlo Franco

[Etienne]

You might consider fourinhand ties too. They occasionally carry 7-folds and are a very good value for the price. It is a different product, though, as Jonathan buys Italian-made ties and does not make them himself like SH or CF.

If you ever come to Paris, Charvet will make you about anything you want in in their bespoke tie program, and they do have pretty dramatic patterns. Prices are hefty, of course.

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by diorshoe

im looking for my next paisley tie and i want it to be the best quality , pure luxury tie, price is not of concern for now. i have been reading alot here about both mulberrywood/Sam Hober and Carlo Franco. these two seem to be the Super-Heavyweights of the handmade 7fold neckties. can anyone give their 2cents about comparisons between the two? please refrain from bashing, although CF may not be here to listen, Mr. David Hober is here, and I want to just hear about constructive pros and cons. thanks
Diorshoe, Thank you for thinking of us. We are going to be busy for the next couple of days working on some ties for a gentleman in SF who is soon to be going on vacation. Then we have several other orders that are for weddings and special events. When we have a moment to breath we will take photos of our new paisleys. They are heavy luxurious woven English silks but the designs are not very close to the sample photo. I have only seen one Carlo Franco tie so I will refrain from comparing our ties. "Do you think they are made better? Either way, what's the difference between the two?" Manton, Your questions are very good ones. As I mentioned above I prefer not to compare our ties with Chuck's. However, I am happy to talk about what we do. Our Sam Hober bespoke ties are very much a service. To start with Noina and I were brought up with a clothing and silk weaving background. We are also very relaxed and friendly people who enjoy what we are doing. Rounding things out I have a serious and perhaps somewhat boring business background. Many gentlemen focus on color and pattern and are not concerned with construction. We always suggest that they stick with basic ties that are inexpensive with a focus on prints. Brooks Brothers and others in that group make nice classic machine-made ties, a step up and these ties work well for many American men. Next you have ties like Drakes and other well known names that use top-grade English and Italian silks. These ties usually have very good construction and will satisfy almost everyone. Drakes and the others at this level will use power tools to cut their silk and well-trained workers. When ties are contracted out and inspected carefully they will normally turn out very well. The problems occur when small companies without much experience contract out tie making. Now the next level is companies like Talbott, Charvet and Marinella. They will often have a well-defined taste in designs and well-made production ties with a smaller bespoke service. Finally, you have small artisanally made ties such as ours. I think that if you could spend some time walking the back-streets of Europe you would find a number of small shops that can make you a beautiful tie with their heart. They will also take a sincere interest in you and your life and family. I purposely say Europe rather than Naples because here and there you will find wonderful tie makers. While walking in Lyon one day I came across a man who made ties in his shop while serving retail customers. I spent a delightful hour visiting with him. Now are the small artisanal tie-makers alot better than the famous and not so famous makers of fine ties? A good question which can only be answered by a gentlemen's personal preference. There are a few clothing companies still out there who spend a lot of time and energy weaving their own cloth. I think that this is a wonderful practice. While we do have a number of the oldest silk mills in Europe weave silks for our ties we also weave our own silk - by hand, in the Isan region of Thailand. We also grow mulberry trees, raise silk worms. reel silk and dye silk. There may be some tie-making firms left such as Sam Hober, who do it all from growing the Mulberry tree (really a bush for silk purposes) to weaving silk and making a bespoke tie - but I do not know of any other than ourselves. We can and do make rare ties like a six-fold Irish poplin (We are currently the only makers in the world of six-folds from Atkinsons Irish poplin) or a slender mudmee silk three-fold. We will pay attention to very small details like how stripes and patterns align on a tie. We have some ways of working with interlinings that are very time-consuming but that result in some subtle but beautifully draping and knotting ties. I could go on but I think that you are getting the idea - many subtle details that are not always noticed at first but that grow on you over time.... Because our name is on every tie that we make we simply make sure that our clients are happy. Sometimes we have to rework a construction to get a knot just right. Or sometimes we have to make a tie just a bit longer or shorter. I enjoy people and make it a practice to listen very carefully. As a result sometimes we will weave a silk specially for a client. It might be a college stripe or something more complicated. We currently have a project in the works to grow madder root on our farm in Thailand to bring back ancient madder ties using natural madder root. This has not been done commercially anywhere for many years - salesmen who say otherwise are being shall we say very creative... We are also starting a new project again in Thailand, which will involve a workshop where we will print small runs of silk for ties and pocket squares. The bespoke ties are going to always be better in construction as they are made slower (If you are following client instructions you have to go slower), with more attention to detail and pride. So in the end you have to decide if you simply want to have a bespoke tie that is just right for you - in the same way that many gentlemen insist on their suits being just as they wish.

 

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Will

I bought half a dozen Carlo Franco ties while they were in business. I've since weeded every one of them.
You want to sell any of them Will...sadly it may be the only way my collection grows

 

[AlanC]

CF and SH offer(ed?) very different approaches. Some of CF offerings were not to my taste, but that can be said for most any maker. If something strikes you from CF, though, that's the place you have to go to get it.

SH--and I've not used David yet, although I hope to--is always offering something 'new', but he's also pulling from the old classic silk archives. Some of the designs you see from David could come straight out of AA/Esky. He also has the best collection of grenadines that I know of. And like Will, I'm often frustrated with the length of most modern RTW ties. David's offerings are a way around that issue.

 

[Alias]

I'm a lot happier with my Sam Hober ties for the same reason people are happier with bespoke products over RTW.

 

[sho'nuff]

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

Diorshoe,

Thank you for thinking of us.

We are going to be busy for the next couple of days working on some ties for a gentleman in SF who is soon to be going on vacation. Then we have several other orders that are for weddings and special events.

When we have a moment to breath we will take photos of our new paisleys. They are heavy luxurious woven English silks but the designs are not very close to the sample photo.

I have only seen one Carlo Franco tie so I will refrain from comparing our ties.



"Do you think they are made better? Either way, what's the difference between the two?"

Manton,

Your questions are very good ones. As I mentioned above I prefer not to compare our ties with Chuck's.

However, I am happy to talk about what we do.

Our Sam Hober bespoke ties are very much a service. To start with Noina and I were brought up with a clothing and silk weaving background. We are also very relaxed and friendly people who enjoy what we are doing. Rounding things out I have a serious and perhaps somewhat boring business background.

Many gentlemen focus on color and pattern and are not concerned with construction. We always suggest that they stick with basic ties that are inexpensive with a focus on prints.

Brooks Brothers and others in that group make nice classic machine-made ties, a step up and these ties work well for many American men.

Next you have ties like Drakes and other well known names that use top-grade English and Italian silks. These ties usually have very good construction and will satisfy almost everyone. Drakes and the others at this level will use power tools to cut their silk and well-trained workers.

When ties are contracted out and inspected carefully they will normally turn out very well. The problems occur when small companies without much experience contract out tie making.

Now the next level is companies like Talbott, Charvet and Marinella. They will often have a well-defined taste in designs and well-made production ties with a smaller bespoke service.

Finally, you have small artisanally made ties such as ours. I think that if you could spend some time walking the back-streets of Europe you would find a number of small shops that can make you a beautiful tie with their heart. They will also take a sincere interest in you and your life and family.

I purposely say Europe rather than Naples because here and there you will find wonderful tie makers. While walking in Lyon one day I came across a man who made ties in his shop while serving retail customers. I spent a delightful hour visiting with him.

Now are the small artisanal tie-makers alot better than the famous and not so famous makers of fine ties? A good question which can only be answered by a gentlemen's personal preference.

There are a few clothing companies still out there who spend a lot of time and energy weaving their own cloth. I think that this is a wonderful practice.

While we do have a number of the oldest silk mills in Europe weave silks for our ties we also weave our own silk - by hand, in the Isan region of Thailand. We also grow mulberry trees, raise silk worms. reel silk and dye silk.

There may be some tie-making firms left such as Sam Hober, who do it all from growing the Mulberry tree (really a bush for silk purposes) to weaving silk and making a bespoke tie - but I do not know of any other than ourselves.

We can and do make rare ties like a six-fold Irish poplin (We are currently the only makers in the world of six-folds from Atkinsons Irish poplin) or a slender mudmee silk three-fold. We will pay attention to very small details like how stripes and patterns align on a tie. We have some ways of working with interlinings that are very time-consuming but that result in some subtle but beautifully draping and knotting ties. I could go on but I think that you are getting the idea - many subtle details that are not always noticed at first but that grow on you over time....

Because our name is on every tie that we make we simply make sure that our clients are happy. Sometimes we have to rework a construction to get a knot just right. Or sometimes we have to make a tie just a bit longer or shorter.

I enjoy people and make it a practice to listen very carefully. As a result sometimes we will weave a silk specially for a client. It might be a college stripe or something more complicated.

We currently have a project in the works to grow madder root on our farm in Thailand to bring back ancient madder ties using natural madder root. This has not been done commercially anywhere for many years - salesmen who say otherwise are being shall we say very creative...

We are also starting a new project again in Thailand, which will involve a workshop where we will print small runs of silk for ties and pocket squares.

The bespoke ties are going to always be better in construction as they are made slower (If you are following client instructions you have to go slower), with more attention to detail and pride.

So in the end you have to decide if you simply want to have a bespoke tie that is just right for you - in the same way that many gentlemen insist on their suits being just as they wish.

thank you for the info Mr. Hober. i do look forward to the paisleys!

 

[Concordia]

CF lacks for not much in construction, and the silk is fine as far as it goes. As others have observed, they ties are very flashy, often egregiously Italian. While I was able to get a handful of XLs, they are not uniformly as well-shaped as the Sam Hober product. I wear them very infrequently.

Sam Hober make very fine ties in very classic patterns. I wear them a lot. The bespoke service matters to me, as I have a slightly off-center preference for length and shape. It's really hooked me on the whole bespoke experience, and at this point Sam Hober is my go-to source for ties. The only reason I would go afield is for a pattern that he doesn't carry, and even then I'd need to get it from a place that does XLs (e.g., Vineyard Vines, which are nowhere near as nice, or Four-in-Hand, which has very good quality, Land's End for Madras), or bespoke (e.g., Charvet, Kiton, Marinella). If Brooks ever got off their tail and offered their whole line in XL I could see being a more regular customer just for the good value.

I got a nice burgundy/olive paisley from CF during the Audrey sale, but otherwise there are no designs that I particularly covet. Certainly not for everyday use.

 

[Sator]

I too vote for Sam Hober and the virtues of bespoke vs RTW. I agree that the more classical and tasteful silks used by David are a major attraction.

 

[Panzeraxe II]

Originally Posted by Manton

Well, I think a Raphael is dramatically better made than Brioni or Kiton (maybe not Oxxford). But I wonder if a Hober is dramatically better made than a CF. My one CF tie is, construction-wise, the equal of anything else I have.

I certainly agree that all those bespoke options are nice (though RTW ties suit me fine) but they don't effect the make.

I realize I was less than clear in my original post. When I meant that the Hober's were 'far better' I was not specifically commenting on the difference in make but rather the value of each purchase given the bespoke options offered by David.

I will say that on one of my seven CF ties, the handmade stitching on the underside of the tie unravelled and TieCrafters had to fix it. I had worn the tie 5-6 times.

 

[Vintage Gent]

I realize I'm a little late getting into the game, but thought I'd offer my perspective. Casting aside Sam Hober's obvious customer service superiority for a minute, I have to say I'm a fan of both ties, although I only have two Sam Hobers and four Carlo Francos. Others have cast aspersions on the "flash" of Carlo Franco ties, although I think that flash works remarkably well, particularly in conservative styles. On the other hand, Sam Hober allows for almost limitless customization, and their selection is steadily growing. When I ordered my second SH, I indicated a preference for a thick tie that produced a prominent dimple. David made changes to the standard lining that gave the tie a remarkable heft; it's really a thing of beauty and arguably my favorite tie.

All other things being equal (and they're not), I'd probably give the edge to Sam Hober. With Carlo Franco's customer service implosion, it's a no-brainer.