Paypal issue - Limited

[chiggah]

Hey guys

I am having headaches with Paypal at the moment

Long story short, i was part of a scam 2 months ago. Bought a Macbook Pro off someone on SF, never arrived and the seller dissappeared.

I put in a dispute and escalated to a claim, but paypal declined it.

Of course, I then had to force a reverse chargeback through my bank. Bank reversed it about 1.5 months ago and thought it was all sorted

Now i just received an email from paypal saying my account is limited and want me to send them money

What should I do ? Why should I transfer money to paypal using cash or cheque? I definitely wont get protected if paypal decides against the favor of the dispute if i mail them the money by cash. I never received anything, so how can i even ship it back with a tracking...?

Why is my account access limited?

Your account access has been limited for the following reason(s):

20/04/2012: Your credit card company let us know that you asked them to reverse a recent PayPal payment.

Any time you have a problem with a PayPal payment, we recommend that you open a dispute in our Resolution Center. We'll help you get in touch with the seller and try to get your money back.

If your credit card company refunds your money, we'll ask you to return the merchandise to the PayPal seller or reimburse PayPal for any money you received because you weren't happy with the transaction.

You can find out more about our buyer protection programs in our User Agreement.


How can I get my account access restored?
It's usually pretty easy to take care of things like this. Most of the time, we just need a little more information about your account or latest transactions.

To help us with this and to find out what you can and can't do with your account until the issue is resolved, go to the Resolution Center.

We'll review the information you provide and email you if we need more details or when your account is back to normal.

Once you complete all of the checklist items, your case will be reviewed by one of our Account Specialists. We will send you an email with the outcome of the review.

Reimburse for the amount of your chargeback

If you wish to return your account to regular standing, you must reimburse the amount that you charged back.

You may reimburse the amount by mailing a check or money order to PayPal, or by making an electronic funds transfer from your bank account.

To reimburse the amount with a check or money order:
Make the check/money order payable to PayPal
Write your email address on the check/money order
Send the check/money order to:
PayPal
Attn: Chargeback Department
P.O. Box 45950
Omaha, NE 68145-0950
United States

To reimburse the amount with an electronic funds transfer, click here.

Provide Proof of Shipping
To restore your account access, please provide shipping information for all transactions listed in the table below. If the shipping company you used is not in the drop-down list, select Other and type the name of the company you used in the box to the right of the drop-down menu. Click the Continue button when when you are finished.

If you are unable to provide information for all transactions during this session, you can return to this page at a later time. You must complete all rows to restore your account access.

Counterparty Transaction ID Date Amount Tracking Number Shipping Company
(If Other, please specify)

 

[dragon8]

I wouldn't even respond to it.

 

[chiggah]

Thanks, that's what i thought.

Yeah but now my account is limited and I have a $600 in dispute/claim because of another trade (seller's girlfriend mail on his behalf and sent the wrong item to me)

Would this be an issue ? I dont care as long as the refund gets processed back to my credit card. This is due next Monday. Seller has agreed not to respond to the claim and funds will automatically be refunded to my credit card

First time experiencing this issue so any advice appreciated

Paypal are a bunch of scammers i tell you

 

[hyt123]

Did the seller of the Macbook ever post a tracking number or (if payment was $250 or more) signature proving delivery? If they didn't, I don't see how PayPal decided in their favor. If that's the case, you need to contact PayPal by phone and speak to a live person to sort this out.

 

[md2010]

Don’t give Paypal a cent back. Paypal are the biggest scammers.

 

[pnutpug]

First off, I have to say I'm shocked--shocked--to hear that anyone has had a problem with PP.

Now, make sure I have this right:

Merchandise doesn't arrive, seller can't be located, you try resolving the issue with PP. That proves unsuccessful, and with your money in the wind, you go the chargeback route and are made whole via your bank. Now, PP, which is presumably the party that ate the loss, wants you to reimburse them for the chargeback and, if you don't, they're going to cut you off.

First off, don't not do anything--PP will, quite likely, report you to a credit agency with resulting harm to your credit score. But prepare for an experience twice as maddening as what has happened to date.

If this were me, I would first call PP (it's actually not that difficult to get a live person). They will be recording the conversation. I suggest you do the same. It might be a good idea to ask to speak with a supervisor from the get-go. Explain the situation and tell them that there has to be some sort of misunderstanding here, that you took seriously the "safe and secure" motto and that it was your understanding, based on PP's advertising and statements in its website, that the company would protect you against fraud, which is what has happened here. Explain that you are a fraud victim, and as a fraud victim, you do not want to be victimized twice by having PP limit your account or--and this part is really important--taking any other adverse action of any kind against you. Keep it general, but what you're telling them is, don't try ******* with my credit score. You don't have to say this explicitly, and I would not.

Remember, your money went somewhere, and, if I'm understanding this correctly, that somewhere is the hands of the fraudster. Tell them that it is your belief that PP is aiding and abetting fraud by requiring you to make PP whole when, in fact, you have paid monies, both to your credit card company and to PP in the form of fees, for a service, and that service includes protection against fraud. The point is, if PP wants its money back, it needs to go after the fraudster, not you. Remind them that you tried to resolve this with PP before doing the chargeback--make it abundantly clear that you did the chargeback as a last resort, after all other means had been exhausted. Ask them to explain to you why they are seeking reimbursement from you instead of the party that ended up with the funds. Make sure you get the name of every person you speak with (they'll give first-names only) and note the time and date of the conversation.

All of this will do you no good whatsoever, at least in the short term, but it may prove important later--you want to keep a record of everything so that everyone is clear on exactly what was said and when it was said.

When you get off the phone, write a letter of complaint and send it to the consumer protection division of the attorney general in your state, and cc PayPal. You should also file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. Also send a letter or email to the card-issuer, advising them that a merchant (and that's what PP is in this situation) is trying to punish you for getting a chargeback. Ask them to intercede on your behalf. Banks are often pretty good about this because they want your business, and the credit-card industry is competitive. Best-case scenario, they'll get Visa on PP's ass, and if that happens, you have a very good chance of having PP say "Never mind." Visa and other credit-card companies have a lot of leverage, and they can and will sanction entities that screw around with customers. Keep in mind: PP had the opportunity to dispute the chargeback. Either they did not, which bodes well for you, or they did but did not prevail, which I think would also bode well. Confirm with your bank whether PP disputed the chargeback and the outcome of the case.

While you might be tempted to just blow this off, I would not. PP doesn't give up easily on stuff like this, and they'll make all kinds of threats and try all kinds of things, such as reporting you to a credit agency, that can make things go from bad to worse. If you are in the right, however, and it sounds like you are, they will, eventually, back down. But you have to be persistent, stand your ground and demonstrate that you will not just sit back while they **** with you. Keep the focus sharp: You were the victim of the fraud, and PP is now trying to **** you twice.

Good luck.

 

[chiggah]



Did the seller of the Macbook ever post a tracking number or (if payment was $250 or more) signature proving delivery? If they didn't, I don't see how PayPal decided in their favor. If that's the case, you need to contact PayPal by phone and speak to a live person to sort this out.

He did provide a tracking, but was to local ( I live in New Zealand) and was to a random address so it never got anywhere.

I have already explained to paypal before i raised the chargeback of the whole situation

Thanks for that pnutpug - i will try threaten that i will raise this with visa and my bank

 

[lysandar]

This may just be the most comprehensive piece of advice I've seen posted on an internet forum, ever. Props.

 

[SpooPoker]

pnutpug, Y U LOVE PAYPAL SO MUCH?

 

[Equus Leather]



This may just be the most comprehensive piece of advice I've seen posted on an internet forum, ever. Props.

I agree, excellent advice that warrants being a kept for posterity's as a sticky in the Sale/Wanted forum if SF does such things.

Charlie

 

[GHo]



First off, I have to say I'm shocked--shocked--to hear that anyone has had a problem with PP.
Now, make sure I have this right:
Merchandise doesn't arrive, seller can't be located, you try resolving the issue with PP. That proves unsuccessful, and with your money in the wind, you go the chargeback route and are made whole via your bank. Now, PP, which is presumably the party that ate the loss, wants you to reimburse them for the chargeback and, if you don't, they're going to cut you off.
First off, don't not do anything--PP will, quite likely, report you to a credit agency with resulting harm to your credit score. But prepare for an experience twice as maddening as what has happened to date.
If this were me, I would first call PP (it's actually not that difficult to get a live person). They will be recording the conversation. I suggest you do the same. It might be a good idea to ask to speak with a supervisor from the get-go. Explain the situation and tell them that there has to be some sort of misunderstanding here, that you took seriously the "safe and secure" motto and that it was your understanding, based on PP's advertising and statements in its website, that the company would protect you against fraud, which is what has happened here. Explain that you are a fraud victim, and as a fraud victim, you do not want to be victimized twice by having PP limit your account or--and this part is really important--taking any other adverse action of any kind against you. Keep it general, but what you're telling them is, don't try ******* with my credit score. You don't have to say this explicitly, and I would not.
Remember, your money went somewhere, and, if I'm understanding this correctly, that somewhere is the hands of the fraudster. Tell them that it is your belief that PP is aiding and abetting fraud by requiring you to make PP whole when, in fact, you have paid monies, both to your credit card company and to PP in the form of fees, for a service, and that service includes protection against fraud. The point is, if PP wants its money back, it needs to go after the fraudster, not you. Remind them that you tried to resolve this with PP before doing the chargeback--make it abundantly clear that you did the chargeback as a last resort, after all other means had been exhausted. Ask them to explain to you why they are seeking reimbursement from you instead of the party that ended up with the funds. Make sure you get the name of every person you speak with (they'll give first-names only) and note the time and date of the conversation.
All of this will do you no good whatsoever, at least in the short term, but it may prove important later--you want to keep a record of everything so that everyone is clear on exactly what was said and when it was said.
When you get off the phone, write a letter of complaint and send it to the consumer protection division of the attorney general in your state, and cc PayPal. You should also file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. Also send a letter or email to the card-issuer, advising them that a merchant (and that's what PP is in this situation) is trying to punish you for getting a chargeback. Ask them to intercede on your behalf. Banks are often pretty good about this because they want your business, and the credit-card industry is competitive. Best-case scenario, they'll get Visa on PP's ass, and if that happens, you have a very good chance of having PP say "Never mind." Visa and other credit-card companies have a lot of leverage, and they can and will sanction entities that screw around with customers. Keep in mind: PP had the opportunity to dispute the chargeback. Either they did not, which bodes well for you, or they did but did not prevail, which I think would also bode well. Confirm with your bank whether PP disputed the chargeback and the outcome of the case.
While you might be tempted to just blow this off, I would not. PP doesn't give up easily on stuff like this, and they'll make all kinds of threats and try all kinds of things, such as reporting you to a credit agency, that can make things go from bad to worse. If you are in the right, however, and it sounds like you are, they will, eventually, back down. But you have to be persistent, stand your ground and demonstrate that you will not just sit back while they **** with you. Keep the focus sharp: You were the victim of the fraud, and PP is now trying to **** you twice.
Good luck.

 

[pnutpug]



pnutpug, Y U LOVE PAYPAL SO MUCH?

I'm a stockholder.

 

[New Shoes1]

Not sure I agree entirely with that course of action, but would definitely call my credit card company to report this. There may be something in the credit card company's agreement with Paypal that prohibits them from trying to collect a chargeback from you. Two additional thoughts:

1) If you are going to record a conversation, tell Paypal you are doing so. In many states it is illegal to record a telephone conversation without the consent of all parties involved. Unless you know your state's law on this subject, I would not record a conversation without consent.

2) Familiarize yourself with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. Attached is the FTC link on this law. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpajump.shtm You will want to take action to formally dispute the debt and try and protect your credit rating.

 

[pnutpug]



Not sure I agree entirely with that course of action, but would definitely call my credit card company to report this.  There may be something in the credit card company's agreement with Paypal that prohibits them from trying to collect a chargeback from you.  Two additional thoughts:

1)  If you are going to record a conversation, tell Paypal you are doing so.  In many states it is illegal to record a telephone conversation without the consent of all parties involved. Unless you know your state's law on this subject, I would not record a conversation without consent.

2)  Familiarize yourself with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act.  Attached is the FTC link on this law.  http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpajump.shtm  You will want to take action to formally dispute the debt and try and protect your credit rating. 

Absolutely, make sure you're in a single-party consent state before recording without notifying the other party. If you're in a two-party consent state, you must inform the other party before recording the conversation. Otherwise, it's a crime.

When dealing with PP, you should get out in front of the problem as soon as you become aware of it rather than wait for PP to do something, then try to fix it.

 

[chiggah]

My main concern is - Refer to last screenshot. Am I still able to receive the refund from the dispute? I paid this via my Credit card and by right, it should automatically go back to my credit card correct ?

The seller has agreed not respond the dispute and automatically refund back after 10 days (which is this coming Monday)