OFFICIAL Simon Crompton thread (PermanentStyle.com)

[GabrielJF]

Speaking as someone who found PS eminently useful when I first discovered it, my enthusiasm for the Cromptonator and his content has diminished massively over the last year. I also think his acolytes - often in the comment section - often seem deranged in their sycophancy, repeating much of the received wisdom of the site and smugly parroting the exclusive mantra of 'if you can't afford it, you're not the target market! Move on, you filthy rat! Get outa here, with your tawdry beliefs, such as how lining a vintage M65 jacket with fur for £1000 is anything other than a superfluous status symbol or actually rather gauche content fodder. We don't need your sense of perspective here! Back to M&S with you, begone!'

There is so much laughably wrong with his site these days and all the more during a cost of living crisis that I wouldn't know where to begin. I think for me the nauseating nosedive into a mix of bloviating drivel that his guest writers pleadingly offer up, his advertorials for ludicrous 'sustainable' initiatives such as resoling old trainers for £500'000 a shoe (when it's usually the uppers of trainers that deteriorate first anyway) and most detestably the increased celebration of industry familiars, that for me renders the site basically pointless.

All those posts showcasing their little dress-up parties (oh look! what's 'Ethan' wearing?! Here comes 'Tony' in his admiral's hat and ceremonial qipao! But don't worry team! Its not cultural appropriation because 'Tony' actually read a very long book (and wrote an even longer article) on the actually rather surprising history of the Qipao and it's actually very surprising cultural significance to white men that look more like the pillsbury doughboy then anyone else you've ever seen wearing a Qipao. Doesn't he look sophisticated and quite unlike someone in the grip of a manic episode!) It is hateful sludge, now, all of it. The Cromptocracy has become a parody of itself. He isn't a journalist. He is an influencer, influencing not the frequenters of luxury for whom he likes to present himself as the torchbearer, but rather aspirants that hope that he'll show them how it's done.

 

[GabrielJF]

As an addendum though, I do genuinely appreciate how helpful he is in the comments, as much as I enjoyed writing the above!

 

[Axxl]

Speaking as someone who found PS eminently useful when I first discovered it, my enthusiasm for the Cromptonator and his content has diminished massively over the last year. I also think his acolytes - often in the comment section - often seem deranged in their sycophancy, repeating much of the received wisdom of the site and smugly parroting the exclusive mantra of 'if you can't afford it, you're not the target market! Move on, you filthy rat! Get outa here, with your tawdry beliefs, such as how lining a vintage M65 jacket with fur for £1000 is anything other than a superfluous status symbol or actually rather gauche content fodder. We don't need your sense of perspective here! Back to M&S with you, begone!'

There is so much laughably wrong with his site these days and all the more during a cost of living crisis that I wouldn't know where to begin. I think for me the nauseating nosedive into a mix of bloviating drivel that his guest writers pleadingly offer up, his advertorials for ludicrous 'sustainable' initiatives such as resoling old trainers for £500'000 a shoe (when it's usually the uppers of trainers that deteriorate first anyway) and most detestably the increased celebration of industry familiars, that for me renders the site basically pointless.

All those posts showcasing their little dress-up parties (oh look! what's 'Ethan' wearing?! Here comes 'Tony' in his admiral's hat and ceremonial qipao! But don't worry team! Its not cultural appropriation because 'Tony' actually read a very long book (and wrote an even longer article) on the actually rather surprising history of the Qipao and it's actually very surprising cultural significance to white men that look more like the pillsbury doughboy then anyone else you've ever seen wearing a Qipao. Doesn't he look sophisticated and quite unlike someone in the grip of a manic episode!) It is hateful sludge, now, all of it. The Cromptocracy has become a parody of itself. He isn't a journalist. He is an influencer, influencing not the frequenters of luxury for whom he likes to present himself as the torchbearer, but rather aspirants that hope that he'll show them how it's done.

I find it funny how people get so upset with what other people in their or just any community do or don't do. On a separate note: can anyone explain the concept of cultural appropriation to me in simple terms? I tried to get my head around it and have no idea what exactly that should be other than just plain bullshit. We all dress to certain occasions sometimes wearing things borrowed from various cultural backgrounds for the sake of, well, just looking good and feeling good. Why would, for example, me wearing a Panama (!) hat originating from Ecuadorian farmhands, make people from Ecuador feel bad about it. Or would a US citizen feel bad about a japanese guy wearing Cowboy boots (which are a variation/adaption of the much older Spanish riding boot)? This concept seems so silly that it shows only one thing: those who came up with the idea obiously never travelled or served their guest a dish other than from a recipe of their greatgrandmas writeup. Cultural symbols have always been adopted across the world. Sorry for the OT. Back to PS bashing, please.

 

[bicycleradical]

When I first discovered PS, I found it eminently useful for my nascent interest in tailoring. The basics of tailored clothing that Simon presented taught me what to look for when choosing clothes I wanted to wear. After a while, my interest in the site waned because of the expense of the items shown and I only began to read selected articles.

It's not a lifestyle to which I aspire. I just like the clothing.

 

[GabrielJF]

When I first discovered PS, I found it eminently useful for my nascent interest in tailoring. The basics of tailored clothing that Simon presented taught me what to look for when choosing clothes I wanted to wear. After a while, my interest in the site waned because of the expense of the items shown and I only began to read selected articles.

It's not a lifestyle to which I aspire. I just like the clothing.

Ooh! Consider me lampooned. Explosive satire!

 

[gimpwiz]

"Cultural appropriation" is indeed bullshit.

 

[GabrielJF]

"Cultural appropriation" is indeed bullshit.

Please can we try and avoid the rude language, Gimpwiz. It isn't very helpful and also, if you think about it, isn't particularly interesting.

Let's try and raise the level of our discourse. You know, like they do on Permanent Style.

 

[classicalthunde]

I find it funny how people get so upset with what other people in their or just any community do or don't do. On a separate note: can anyone explain the concept of cultural appropriation to me in simple terms? I tried to get my head around it and have no idea what exactly that should be other than just plain bullshit. We all dress to certain occasions sometimes wearing things borrowed from various cultural backgrounds for the sake of, well, just looking good and feeling good. Why would, for example, me wearing a Panama (!) hat originating from Ecuadorian farmhands, make people from Ecuador feel bad about it. Or would a US citizen feel bad about a japanese guy wearing Cowboy boots (which are a variation/adaption of the much older Spanish riding boot)? This concept seems so silly that it shows only one thing: those who came up with the idea obiously never travelled or served their guest a dish other than from a recipe of their greatgrandmas writeup. Cultural symbols have always been adopted across the world. Sorry for the OT. Back to PS bashing, please.

I'm going to hate myself for wading into this quagmire and will try to do it objectively.

Broadly speaking, the concerns surrounding cultural appropriation are the appropriation parts, that is taking a piece of culture and using it for your own purposes (often disconnected from the original intention) rather than having it shared organically overtime as part of a broader cultural exchange.

Different things have different levels or cultural value or emotional resonance, a shade hat used by a Ecuadorian farmer or a Texas cowboy probably dont have huge cultural/emotional significances but things like Native American headdress worn by white people to hip concerts to look 'cool' who have no real understanding of Native culture or religion is a different thing. Also, functional items such as hats and boots can find usefulness in many different areas regardless of where that specific style of hat originated, which means its not necessarily disconnected from the original usage/intention. A cowboy hat works just as good at shading on the plains as it does on a beach in Maui. For a more striking example outside of the realm of fashion, think about the huge impact that Nazis had on Indian/Hindu iconography with their cultural appropriation of the swastika...

Its tough to say that eastern folks wearing blue jeans or listening to hip hop are acts of appropriation as those are intentional cultural exports.

Also, if my Korean neighbor wants to share with me their grandmas recipes and I then adopt them into my standard rotating dishes for my family, that is outside the scope of cultural appropriation since they were freely shared with me.

 

[Jason12]

Nope cultural appropriation is very much real.

If I am wearing hanfu, kimono or another Asian clothing in the past we would be mocked and everyone calling us Jackie Chan

Now that Asian culture is more cool in the eyes of western society, it is unfair if a white person now deems Asian clothing as cool and wearable, especially if they sell and profit off it. Whereas in the past they mocked the traditional wearers of such clothes

But basically anybody can wear Asian clothes as long as they treat the history and original wearers with respect

And preferably not significantly modify it such as how there have been issues where non Asians modified the cut of Asian female clothing to be more revealing and sexualised which is changing the original in order to turn a profit.

Asians wearing jeans is not nearly the same, as these were introduced by western people due to having more power over them and then Asians became used to it and even perfecting it such as Japanese raw denim culture. E.g. Chinese people only started wearing western suits after they were controlled by British and other European countries through the opium wars

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

"Cultural appropriation" is indeed bullshit.

I mean, strictly technically, it's not unreasonable to recognize why certain things are the way things are, and be sensitive to the fact that historically, there was a situation of one group taking advantage of an uneven relationship with another, with the stronger one imposing some things, and taking other things, from the other group. Getting annoyed with the legacy of this, isn't crazy or woke or whatever. Like, British people making chicken tikka masala a national dish is kind of a dark joke at best. On the flip side of course, it's not really an offense when Chinese or Indian person wears a suit because that came from the opposite end of the power gradient. Fun bit of trivia for some of you forumites: in Chinese the literal translation for a tailored suit is "Western clothes" and for tailored trousers is "Western pants."

In practice though, this historical injustice tends to show up in subtle ways, and there are no easy fixes, so instead everyone zeroes in exclusively on details like food and clothes, which makes the whole thing feel really petty and performative when there are so many exponentially larger crises facing us.

Marginally related anecdote: I have memories of going to a friend's house and having his (Asian-American) mom make some bland white-people version of what my (aggressively Asian) mom would have made, and thinking, "Damn now I have to sit here and pretend to like this when I really ought to be playing Mortal Kombat 2 with Nelson" which I guess was a no bueno situation, but nothing to get upset about.


What does this have to do with Simon though?

 

[Thin White Duke]

I mean, strictly technically, it's not unreasonable to recognize why certain things are the way things are, and be sensitive to the fact that historically, there was a situation of one group taking advantage of an uneven relationship with another, with the stronger one imposing some things, and taking other things, from the other group. Getting annoyed with the legacy of this, isn't crazy or woke or whatever. Like, British people making chicken tikka masala a national dish is kind of a dark joke at best. On the flip side of course, it's not really an offense when Chinese or Indian person wears a suit because that came from the opposite end of the power gradient. Fun bit of trivia for some of you forumites: in Chinese the literal translation for a tailored suit is "Western clothes" and for tailored trousers is "Western pants."

In practice though, this historical injustice tends to show up in subtle ways, and there are no easy fixes, so instead everyone zeroes in exclusively on details like food and clothes, which makes the whole thing feel really petty and performative when there are so many exponentially larger crises facing us.

Marginally related anecdote: I have memories of going to a friend's house and having his (Asian-American) mom make some bland white-people version of what my (aggressively Asian) mom would have made, and thinking, "Damn now I have to sit here and pretend to like this when I really ought to be playing Mortal Kombat 2 with Nelson" which I guess was a no bueno situation, but nothing to get upset about.


What does this have to do with Simon though?

You were doing so well until you used the term “white people version”😁
And assuming your friend was Asian, how come he’s named ‘Nelson’? Is that not cultural appropriation?
Jus’ sayin’ 😁

 

[brax]

P.S. Flaneur doesn’t mean what many people on the Internet think it means.

Well, that just simply begs the question.

 

[Knurt]

Simon does an admirable job. He would be far worse if he always had the greatest advice for everybody. Personally I find it strange the way he fills that wide space between bespoke suits and the most casual clothing. He had added tatoos, all-black outfits, jewelry etc., showing clearly to me that his taste for casual clothing goes in a different direction to mine. But he is there with new stuff three times a week, digging up producers, garments, shops, all the time increasing the scope for us to pick, choose and learn. Hats off to him!

 

[Sirguywhosmiles]

Glorified internet salesmen are guys on YouTube who heavily play on their audience insecurities and sell them garbage under false pretense that women will want them if they'll buy this thing.
From where I sit, PS just found it's niche and audience that is willing to pay those prices without any bullshit sales tactics. So I see no problem with that.
SC also doesn't seem to be a snob like a bunch of other influencer who try to sell you expensive stuff

I'd agree with this. Simon's articles run away fast from value-for-money and his tone can be a little pompous, but he is welcoming and not sneery towards the less-rich and those who know little about clothes.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

You were doing so well until you used the term “white people version”😁

I mean, but you knew exactly what I meant when I said that though, right?

Relevant:

And assuming your friend was Asian, how come he’s named ‘Nelson’? Is that not cultural appropriation?
Jus’ sayin’ 😁

For the record because it's kind of relevant to the topic at hand (and not to devolve this into CE), that kid was actually named after that one specific Nelson, the Rolihlahla guy who had beef with apartheid. But in general, we're not trying to be so high-minded or even to "appropriate;" we're just trying to stick to easy Franco-Germanic sounds that our colonizers can pronounce.