Neckties: A Discussion Thread

[raindog]

By all means; all I wanted to say is that different makers can use the name "seven fold" with regard to differently built ties. While some seven folds behave more or less exactly like an ordinary three-fold, others behave differently. Indeed, lining seems to be crucial here.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

By all means; all I wanted to say is that different makers can use the name "seven fold" with regards to differently built ties. While some seven folds behave more or less exactly like an ordinary three-fold, others behave differently. Indeed, lining seems to be crucial here.

I have seen several different 7 fold ties, that indeed all what can be called 7 fold ties, but differ on how the folds are folded per example and all varies on different details as made out of two pieces vs. three pieces, low bartack vs high bartack and different personal details.

Per example I have seen American made 7 fold that are way different to the ones I learnt on Naples, also seen a Savile Row one way different, and per example Hober, who is a person I admire and learnt from him, does as well a different one than the standard Neapolitan one. Not better or worse, just different, in fact this is better to avoid all looking same, doing the same.

Some got 7 fold on the narrow blade/tip as well, some got 3 , all depends on the maker.

Each one does a different product but yes, all are indeed 7 fold ties. (some 7 called 6 but well...)

 

[Sam Hober]



By all means; all I wanted to say is that different makers can use the name "seven fold" with regard to differently built ties. While some seven folds behave more or less exactly like an ordinary three-fold, others behave differently. Indeed, lining seems to be crucial here.

There are lots of claims about what a classic 7-fold is and since they often contradict each other by definition most of them are wrong.

However, as I am in the listening business (custom made/bespoke only) I only make what I am requested to make, which makes life much simpler.

Now practical points for seven-fold ties:

1) A 7-fold tie has seven folds and that is what makes it a 7-fold tie - nothing else.

2) An unlined 7-fold will wrinkle more than a lined tie.

3) Over time it will not hold its shape as well as a lined tie.

4) The knot will tend to be smaller as there is no interlining.

5) The difference in the knot other than above is primarily due to the fabric not the construction. As Raindog mentions interlining is a key point, if a 7-fold has interlining why would it behave differently than a lined 3-fold other than being heavier?- Which is not a bad thing as heaviness is something that many men like.

6) In Italy some makers describe 6-fold ties as 7-folds I have no idea why - but they are certainly not 7-folds.

7) Some makers such as Talbott describe 7-folds as having died out and been revived by them - I think not as in Italy seven-folds have been made for a long time without a stopping point.

The gentleman on this thread from Naples may be able to mention historical stories he has heard from his teachers to add more background to this.

 

[raindog]

Thank you for this insightful comment, Mr. Hober,

So, as we have the construction issues covered, it's perhaps time to switch to materials. Recently I got hold of this vintage tie (labelled 'Gent's' and 100% silk):




What I think is quite special about it is that it seems that its fabric's texture is a mix of weaving and printing. The shiny polka dots are woven into the silk, and the greenish thingies are printed on it. It may not be for everybody, as it certainly doesn't follow the "less is more" principle, but I like its old school vibe. The problem, however, is that it was quite creased when I got it, and I imagine that the interlining lost its shape. Before I wear it, I'll have to have the interlining changed, I suppose.

 

[Sam Hober]



Thank you for this insightful comment, Mr. Hober, So, as we have the construction issues covered, it's perhaps time to switch to materials. Recently I got hold of this vintage tie (labelled 'Gent's' and 100% silk): What I think is quite special about it is that it seems that its fabric's texture is a mix of weaving and printing. The shiny polka dots are woven into the silk, and the greenish thingies are printed on it. It may not be for everybody, as it certainly doesn't follow the "less is more" principle, but I like its old school vibe. The problem, however, is that it was quite creased when I got it, and I imagine that the interlining lost its shape. Before I wear it, I'll have to have the interlining changed, I suppose.

If an interlining is wool and well made and all good ties use wool interlinings (leaving out unlined ones) it will be in good shape basically forever. So most likely either the interlining is OK or the tie is cheaply made. As for the creases perhaps the silk is very thin which is not always a bad thing but does lead to creases. The more than 8 fold ties that are on occasion made mostly in Italy are basically a marketing tool and use very thin silk. There is no special benefit to ties with more than 8 folds. So step one is the old steam method - take a hot shower and hang the tie up on a hanger - see what happens. Next, you can lightly press the creases but not the edges. Last open the tie and iron out the creases and put the tie back together. Maybe you can mail it to the gentleman from Naples as apparently (from his post) they do this cheaply there? But maybe I misunderstood...

 

[raindog]

Thank you Mr. Hober. I don't know this brand (Gent's), and the tie may be older than me (I can't date it - for me it can be anywhere from late 1970s to mid-1990s, but I only started wearing ties in mid-2000s ), but it does look somewhat cheaply made. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the interlining is polyester or something like that, it feels "twisted" and "creased", especially in the knot area.
I really like the outer fabric, though (and you are right, it feels very thin indeed, which doesn't put me off), and given that I only paid 1 EUR for it, I will send it to a nearby tie maker to see what can be done with it. If he says it's not worth the shot - then at least I'll have the picture .

 

[Sam Hober]



Thank you Mr. Hober. I don't know this brand (Gent's), and the tie may be older than me (I can't date it - for me it can be anywhere from late 1970s to mid-1990s, but I only started wearing ties in mid-2000s ), but it does look somewhat cheaply made. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the interlining is polyester or something like that, it feels "twisted" and "creased", especially in the knot area.
I really like the outer fabric, though (and you are right, it feels very thin indeed, which doesn't put me off), and given that I only paid 1 EUR for it, I will send it to a nearby tie maker to see what can be done with it. If he says it's not worth the shot - then at least I'll have the picture .

Remaking a tie can be done correctly in which case it will be $35 and up.

Your tie is worth only what you feel it is worth as a general rule I only suggest remaking ties when it was a gift from someone special.

Now if someone is a student or something like that and can do it cheaply that is fine but won't be the same as an experienced custom tie maker remaking a tie.

Remaking involves taking the tie apart, changing the interlining if needed, adjusting as needed and possible shape and construction. Then putting the tie back together.

This can't be done quickly and properly.

If someone suggests a low price shortcuts are being taken.

I don't understand why you wouldn't first try to fix it yourself as I described in my earlier post unless money is not an issue.

 

[raindog]

Oh, I have already tried these methods (steaming, rolling/hanging for a couple of days, ironing at a dry cleaner's). The tie does look much better (it was a total mess when I bought it), but it's still not wearable. As I said, I think there is a problem with the interlining in the knot area.

Back then when I was a student, I used to shop in thrift stores a lot. Now I can afford some decent garments (although never as many as I'd like to ) at full retail price, but I still visit thrift stores from time to time. Sometimes I get very sentimental about things I find there. Still, I won't spend more than I would on a new silk tie (50 EUR seems to be a starting price for a decent tie here in Paris), so if it's, as you suggested, 35$-ish, I would go for it. I really like this texture, I don't know why. I know there are much prettier printed silks available, but... well, I always rationalise it by saying that some people have more expensive hobbies than mine .

Thank you very much for your opinion, though. When I joined SF, I didn't imagine that Mr. Hober would discuss MY tie with me. What a cool place.

 

[raindog]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Here is my Christmas tie:



It's a wool tie made by Embassy of Elegance (untipped, hand-rolled edges, wool interlining) sitting on an Aran sweater (100% merino wool, I love this baby), a Vauen Premium briar pipe and La Poupée Modèle, a French magazine for girls from early 20th century (just for colour ). As you can see, the tie is embellished with a bespoke tie pin (amber in sterling silver).

It will be a happy Christmas!

 

[SartodiNapoli]

There are lots of claims about what a classic 7-fold is and since they often contradict each other by definition most of them are wrong.

However, as I am in the listening business (custom made/bespoke only) I only make what I am requested to make, which makes life much simpler.

Now practical points for seven-fold ties:

1) A 7-fold tie has seven folds and that is what makes it a 7-fold tie - nothing else.

2) An unlined 7-fold will wrinkle more than a lined tie.

3) Over time it will not hold its shape as well as a lined tie.

4) The knot will tend to be smaller as there is no interlining.

5) The difference in the knot other than above is primarily due to the fabric not the construction. As Raindog mentions interlining is a key point, if a 7-fold has interlining why would it behave differently than a lined 3-fold other than being heavier?- Which is not a bad thing as heaviness is something that many men like.

6) In Italy some makers describe 6-fold ties as 7-folds I have no idea why - but they are certainly not 7-folds.

7) Some makers such as Talbott describe 7-folds as having died out and been revived by them - I think not as in Italy seven-folds have been made for a long time without a stopping point.

The gentleman on this thread from Naples may be able to mention historical stories he has heard from his teachers to add more background to this.

Remaking a tie can be done correctly in which case it will be $35 and up.

Your tie is worth only what you feel it is worth as a general rule I only suggest remaking ties when it was a gift from someone special.

Now if someone is a student or something like that and can do it cheaply that is fine but won't be the same as an experienced custom tie maker remaking a tie.

Remaking involves taking the tie apart, changing the interlining if needed, adjusting as needed and possible shape and construction. Then putting the tie back together.

This can't be done quickly and properly.

If someone suggests a low price shortcuts are being taken.

I don't understand why you wouldn't first try to fix it yourself as I described in my earlier post unless money is not an issue.

http://www.tie-a-tie.net/blog/7-fold-ties-what-it-means/

7 fold, here I go on the way are made on Naples and I was learnt.

The 7 fold ties come from an ancient Neapolitan thing that was making a tie without interlining and using only a piece without any sewn, to make bulk, they folded the silk into several folds. I do not know if big silk sheets as today existed at this time, so I got my doubts about this story. I have done single piece ties with no sewns on it but with modern loom made silk sheets of circa 2 meters.

Then on the 90s, after the boom on the 80´s of Milanese Italian brands since Miami Vice´s Armani, Versace, etc , the Neapolitans followed with the actual 7 fold (which is technically a 6 fold as Hober pointed out) no one knows who made it first, only that was made a commercial success by Ciro Paone of Kiton (maybe due of his commercial exporting power) That is what I was told in several houses. I do not know if this is true or just a legend. I just repeat what I have been told.

That tie is a more "economic", since the real 7 fold made of a single piece, I just wrote would cost 300-500 today if were made. A friend did a limited series of cashmere from only a piece sold at 500 euros, for celebrity clients who like to show off Vicuña 30.000 euros overcoats, Bentleys and that fancy stuff for magazines and tv late shows.

The actual one has the blade and the narrow tip blade more wide, hence are folded into 7 folds, (with like 3 fold on the narrow blade as the tradition says) there is a version with 5 folds to save money as well as a bit fancy 12 fold, I also do that, but only got very few commissions. Let´s say is for collectors of handmade stuff who want to have one piece to see it. Some Neapolitan brands chargues 240 for one of this.


This following variants exist for ties; NOTE ALL THIS ARE MADE BY HAND with needle and fingers, the manual sewing machine( the usual ones we all got in mind operated by a seamtress) is only used to sew a few stitches on the interlining, to attach the upper and lower interling, and if the tie is lined, to sew the line.

MACHINE STITCHED BY LIBA;

On the contrary see how fast are made by the LIBA machine the commercial one sthis machine cost 200-300.000 euros and I have never seen one in person even I have been looking to see it working in person for curiosity, Marinella and others uses today this process unless a tie is commision bespoke with other measures, just on this ones would be made by hand as years before ( or as the top Neapolitan makers yet do);

MACHINE STITCHED TIE;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-71OK5aZc

A tie is made on a few seconds.

The usual Neapolitan 7 fold (actually 6) one, The normal has two interlinings, only natural wool and cotton, no way polyester. Usually comes "selflined"; the most expensive since consumes a lot of fabric, it means the back of the tie has the exact same silk.

LINED ON MONOCOLOR; Lined when the main fabric is too heavy or to save fabric per example, brands from I learnt as Borrelli or Kiton only uses pure silk (I also was teached from those), the exact one is used to line their jackets. On the comercial brands as Brioni, Corneliani etc that only do 3 fold, they use polyester with their logo engraved on.

The linen is sewn by machine as doing it by hand would be obnoxious.





UNLINED UNTIPPED ; the most precious one, the “gourmet” tie, has no line, have the exact same interlining as the rest, but is cutted at the bartack to hide it and the borders are handrolled. This takes several hours to do, usuallly only a wool layer of interlining is on it to make them lighter ( 2 layers for export). The side effect of this precious ties is that might lost the shape and ironing after a few uses, especially when the bartack is placed over 26cm to show all the folds, making an incredible piece of art, while the lined ones last almost forever. Is like driving a Ferrari, needs service after a few milles and should not be (abu)sed daily.





NOTE; ALL THE UNLINED TIES, DO HAVE THE SAME INTERLINING, NO WAY (THAT I HAVE SEEN) A TIE IS MADE WITHOUT INTERLINING (only for experimental or bespoked that way for any particular reason, EVEN ARE CALLED UNLINED, but the interlining is cutted where the bartack is, to make them more beautiful showing just the back of the main fabric.

I love this ones, specially when the fabric is jaquard; those who are not printed by inks, but the intrincated design from crossing threads, so you can see the "soul" of the fabric. Example is attached.

Since the folds are not seen by the rest of the people, it doesn´t adds any elegance to the outfit, that is sadly the truth, but is like a special magical fetish for those who like handmade garments and each tie is different to the other from the imperfections of sewing by hand.

5 FOLD SELFLINED, with machine made edges, economic version of the 7 one, note the edges are not as beautiful from the following ones by hand.



7 FOLD ( actually 6), SELFLINED;

The tie uses the same fabric as on the main face on the back, is made by hand suing only the manual sewing machine( not the Liba) to sew the back,lining and interlining, consumes more fabric, is the most sold.




12 FOLD TIES, This are not traditional, but interesting to own and see.

Note the bartack is close to be at 30 cms as special request of the client for the reddish tie, as higher as possible or even more. The owner and me proud to be his pupil, whose mother owns the Gold Medal of the Italian Senate given decades ago as best Arthisan of Italy at his time had to do this personally.

Commercial ties do have it placed at 12- 14 cms giving that closed letter like
industrial effect.



NOTE THE ULTRA NARROW HAND ROLL, THE MOST TIME TAKING AND DIFFICULT TO MADE.





INDUSTRIAL 3 FOLD TIE; See this commercial 3 fold tie, lined on monocolor polyester ( I assume) See the bartack very low and cheaply looking, and commercial industrial looking. The usual garment everybody understands as tie.



As a note of the highest quality possible, the roll has to be the narrowest as the fabric allows, on commercial ties as Ralph Lauren, even is a nice tie made in Italy, are
made very fast, and has very few stitches and huge borders, to have the biggest industrial benefit, making as much as possible on the less time.

BAD HAND MADE ROLL;

See this(I don´t like bashing opponents, I do not know this brand, just took the random pic from Google), the fabric is good ( Actually Tussah raw silk), and looks good, but note the handroll is made very fast, very thick and doesn´t looks very good. Is no Neapolitan but an imitation, takes a few minutes to do.

See this not good made tie, the hand roll is thick, irregular and rookie made and would not pass any quality control in Naples by any brand; Note as well the bartack is made fast and placed very low instead of high.

This tie looks pretty interesting but has thick handroll, it is made quite fast.



POOR HAND MADE ROLL ( This is flat and usually seen on Ralph Lauren made in Italy ties, even this one is Drakes) Made on a few seconds, simply poor. This is a gimmick to say is made by hand ( actually it is, but with poor quality) to hook/fool people and charge a hand made price to a tie that is indeed made by hand but with a quality that better to do by machine and lower the price as this, well, I got no words for “this”.


GOOD HANDMADE ROLL;

Note the ultranarrow handroll, the most difficult and time requesting to make. (hours)

Note 12 folds;








BAD KNOT (not sure if this is due from bad skills of the gentleman this unpro mix of Windsor and Four in Hand,or the tie is simply bad) Is the prior shown tie.


GOOD KNOT (7 fold unlined untipped, gives the same proper classic Four in Hand knot as on a 3 fold ) Gent is me, sorry, not pretending to be narcissistic, simply do not have other picture at hand), note I like the knots more thin and narrow yet, specially on the bottom)








To ilustrate, the back of this ties are “unlined untipped”, hence the interlining is cutted at the bartack, to allow the tip seen nude but already the interlining is used, otherwise the tie would behave as a hot spagguetti, with no shape;










Also, another mark of the Neapolitan tradition of the highest quality possible, is to place the bartack, the travetto, as high as possible, usually 26 or 27 cms from the tip. The Liba machine or commercial ties have the bartack as lowest as possible. Look for it that when buying a tie.

GOOD BARTACK, made by hand like a shirt handmade embroided buttonhole;


The English fabrics used.




BAD BARTACK (not necessary “bad” but not good enough for the prices requested ( random pics from Google, got no idea who made this, is actual, but sure no way Neapolitan) This way were made in Naples on the 70´s as I have renewed, reshaped almost all Italian brand ties for clients who gives us old ties with beautiful fabrics to refurbish at nowadays top standards.



Note different Non Neapolitan ways, this same maker as before is putting the bartack of the narrow blade very high, maybe is trying to do his own different product (good idea), maybe is trying to do a step beyond or “Sprezzatura” or however that word of mixing and exagerating,parodying all the classical features as possible (Non traditional but fashionista, bad idea OMHO, Pittiesque)



Note this ties lacks of the internal pulling thread, the “ soul” of a tie. Or at least I do not see it.


THE SOUL OF A HANDMADE TIE;

So many of you have wondered as me the first time I handled one, for what purpose is this thread on the back of the narrow blade but selfrealiced once you get back home and untie the knot, the tie gets ruffled but once you pull of the thread and the tie gets back to the original way. That is the thread from the tie is stitched on, the soul of the handmade tie.

Usually are done in black thread, I like to use the matching color.

Note, there are machine made ties that are starting to feature this( the ones shown here are all done by me or on the factories I practised on)

This one is LINED ON OTHER MATERIAL;



SELFLINED, see the thread, the “soul”.



UNLINED UNTIPPED.






RANDOM EXAMPLES OF LINING, ALL IN 7(6) FOLD


I wish you a merry Christmas to all of you!!!

 

[Sam Hober]

I enjoyed your post:

1) When were you told 7-folds started and were they made continuously or were they not made for a number of years? I ask because I like history.

2) Is the last photo from your house? A great view.

3) I agree with much of what you wrote but some is of course personal opinion - which is always good to have.

4) Tight narrow edges are good and what we always do but many of the photos show irregular shapes which is the result of not being careful to balance the rolls...

5) I am still wondering why some Italians call 6-folds 7-folds - can you research this? Again I like history.

You spent time on the post - thank you and Merry Christmas!

 

[SartodiNapoli]

I enjoyed your post:

1) When were you told 7-folds started and were they made continuously or were they not made for a number of years? I ask because I like history.

2) Is the last photo from your house? A great view.

3) I agree with much of what you wrote but some is of course personal opinion - which is always good to have.

4) Tight narrow edges are good and what we always do but many of the photos show irregular shapes which is the result of not being careful to balance the rolls...

5) I am still wondering why some Italians call 6-folds 7-folds - can you research this? Again I like history.

You spent time on the post - thank you and Merry Christmas!

Hi, thanks for the words from such a master as you! Keeping improving daily.

1) I will ask, I understood for the meaning it was before the WWII, because was money for expensive things I guess, and also because sure weren´t made on the 80´s, maybe came in fashion again, as always happens with everything after some decades?. Just been wondering, as a tie at that time was 135 cm long or even less, I think it should be possible to make a real 7 fold froma single piece on a silk sheet of that age, but I have never seen such ancient tie or even a pic. I got on mind when wondering about this modern 150cm ties, that sure won´t be possible on a single small sheet.

2) Not my house, I wish, actually is one of the most expensive areas in Naples, the Vesubian alive vulcan is the twin mountain at the fond, just took that pic on one of my weekly Sunday walkings of several kms looking for different churches to go Mass. I always find a new one! Here other pic of this castle made on the French domination.


4) You mean this pic, the reddish on the red? Not irregular, if any comes irregular is remade, do not pass the quality control, is just how came in the pic by do not pull the tip with my finger prior of the pic, also notice the fabric is pulling the tip because is opened to show the 12 folds, is not closed so would be perfect without tension. (Might seem a excuse but is for real since I am a maniac perfection who watches over and over everything, lol)


Also this ties unlined not jaquards who stand better, but printed are so soft (even got the heaviest oz.) that are “alive” as a snake as you know, always moving when taking pics, and I am a poor photographer, every time I take pics from different angles, the ties reveal as surreal Picasso shapes, so got to take pics over and over, if any can give me some tips to take better pics I will apreciate.

Sometimes I have to put weights or heavy shears to avoid this when making a pic for a client, any tip to pic the folds opened and shaped?




5) Will ask and publish, but on everyplace I ask a historical thing, I got a funny story, per example on one place I was told the Rubinacci family were aristocrats, on other after this, that the aristocrats of the time helped them no aristocrats to stablish etc, other said he “invented” the handmade shirt when they come from other century, so I always got my doubts about everything I am told, you know... Some car brands call a 1747cc. engine as 1800cc, so who knows? Also a pic of what I have also been told was the first stock market ever opened in the world, sure Wall Street didn´t exist, but maybe London?

Best

 

[Sam Hober]

"make on a silk sheet of that age,"

I don't understand what you mean.

Is a silk sheet a printed panel as they sometimes do in England?

If so I don't order them as we lose silk - we are very careful when we cut so that we don't lose any fabric.

I wonder if you have in Rome a fabric museum which may have some good research based answers to our historical questions?

I like Italian fabric very much especially the way it is finished which is like magic it is so good. Italian artisans can do anything they want when they put the time into it. Most rolled edges in Italy are that I see are irregular and not perfect.

I call it a rustic look - remember they can do a perfect rolled edge including the tip if they want to. The tip should be a V shape

I also don't like "saddle stitching" to close the back of the tie - large visible stitches.

 

[Shredder]

Hey guys I'd appreciate some of your thoughts!

I've been starting to really get into Versace ties recently. The gold, generally black labels, make a really great look for me when put together properly. I've found that there are a lot of quality ties on ebay, and different sites, but it can get a little disconcerting with all the fake garbage out there.

Do you think this tie is legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/262202630641?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It's got the Gianni Versace on the bottom, back. The four stitches holding on the middle, back, label, and the Made in Italy.

This exact tie was actually posted on here a while back, but the tags and IDs are totally different. Is the one listed here:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/130609/authenticity-check-on-versace-ties -(It's toward the bottom.)- the fake version of the one on ebay? Or are they both frauding?

Lastly, Do any of you have some suggestions on learning some of the old labels or tags from different brands?? I've found a few minor lists from websites, but it's not like Versace or wherever offer a comprehensive resource. Heck, they don't even show you the back of the tie you're buying online to begin with.

I'm just getting into "Tie Game" so obviously I need to learn as much as possible. I've got some other questions, but I figured this is a good place to start.

Thanks for any feedback!
-Shred

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Hey guys I'd appreciate some of your thoughts!

I've been starting to really get into Versace ties recently. The gold, generally black labels, make a really great look for me when put together properly. I've found that there are a lot of quality ties on ebay, and different sites, but it can get a little disconcerting with all the fake garbage out there.

Do you think this tie is legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/262202630641?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It's got the Gianni Versace on the bottom, back. The four stitches holding on the middle, back, label, and the Made in Italy.

This exact tie was actually posted on here a while back, but the tags and IDs are totally different. Is the one listed here:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/130609/authenticity-check-on-versace-ties -(It's toward the bottom.)- the fake version of the one on ebay? Or are they both frauding?

Lastly, Do any of you have some suggestions on learning some of the old labels or tags from different brands?? I've found a few minor lists from websites, but it's not like Versace or wherever offer a comprehensive resource. Heck, they don't even show you the back of the tie you're buying online to begin with.

I'm just getting into "Tie Game" so obviously I need to learn as much as possible. I've got some other questions, but I figured this is a good place to start.

Thanks for any feedback!
-Shred

Looks legit from the 80s but who knows. For that low price I don´t thing any sew the real lining on a fake one, but everything is possible on Ebay.

I liked the style of Versace ties at that time (not for a classical attire, but the motives were nice to see as classic Roman and Greek designs). There are a famous member here who drives the best Italian cars who collects those...

@Hober,quotting; make on a silk sheet of that age,"

I don't understand what you mean.

Is a silk sheet a printed panel as they sometimes do in England?

If so I don't order them as we lose silk - we are very careful when we cut so that we don't lose any fabric.

Me; Yes, I meant that. Sadly we waste a lot of silk that can´t be used after a multiple fold.

Soon will have answers as will ask a true expert who writes on Gentleman magazine and has books written about. Stay tuned.

-----------------

Just got this pic of a Neapolitan tie I can´t consider good. The handroll is FLATPRESSED, HAS NO ROLL, NO ROLLED EDGES, just flat pressed,is fastly made even is indeed made by hand.


SHOULD AVOID this things (unless bought very cheap) even the rest of the tie looks nicely made. The maker of this tie should not do this gimmick, specially if he calls himself “Prince of Elegance from Naples”, I am sorry to say, duke (well, let´s be respetuous with the real dukes), lets call him “Dude of cheaply made unties" lol. First time I see a small flat pressed edge on a tie, I pointed out the Ralph Lauren and one Drakes who did this but with very big edges.