Neckties: A Discussion Thread

[MrTRC]

...

 

[raindog]

Gentlemen,

I own a Pal Zileri tie (lovely piece) made of a rather unusual (to my eye) silk fabric. I remember when I bought it in Paris the seller told me it was "5 fils" or "7 fils" (fil is French for thread), but I think it was only a scam to make me buy it (which I did regardless of his recommendation). It looks a bit like grenadine, but slightly different from "standard" garza grossa or garza fina.

Here is a picture of this mysterious tie (for comparison two Embassy of Elegance grenadines: fina (navy) and grossa (striped)), sitting on my camel overcoat (wool/cashmere blend):



and the fabric in close-up:



Any ideas on what it is?

 

[kravatorf]

Hi,

It looks much like a "soie nattée" (braided silk ??)

Hermes offers something similar in its solid range ( http://france.hermes.com/homme/crav...HELLES&nuance=2&back_product_position=s-1-p-6)

Sam hober (under the "pattern" category), boivin or Marinella have this kind of fabric available from time to time. I own a few and find that the texture is great, making a solid tie more interesting but still understated

 

[raindog]

It looks very much like the Hermes indeed. Must be this then. Thanks a lot, neighbour, you've been very helpful .

I agree, this fabric makes a tie stand out.

But coming back to the Hermes website you referred to, it's interesting how most of these ties are tied into something that I would call a "reverse" teardrop - under the knot, the fabric is budged in the centre rather than on the sides (like on the "myrtille" one). I personally don't like it and I would criticise someone for wearing his tie tied this way. But I can't argue that Hermes doesn't know how to tie their ties

 

[raindog]

Any thoughts on ties at this year's Pitti Ouomo? Based on the pictures I saw, despite all the flashiness, ties don't stand out much... and if they stand out, it's more because of fancy knots than because of fabrics, colours, textures...

This one for example (nice shantung, but not as flashy as the knot and the initials): http://blog.neimanmarcus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DSC_9469.jpg (sorry I just paste a link and not the actual picture, don't want to infringe copyright).

What do you think? Are you going to embroider all your ties' narrow endings with your initials now?

 

[Henry Carter]

Are you sure that's from this Pitti? Looks very summery both outside and in what the guy is wearing. People aren't wearing Panama hats in winter are they?

 

[Veremund]

It's warm enough to do so this winter sadly.

 

[raindog]

Shame on me, it's not from the Pitti that is going on right now. It's from a post entitled "Street Style: Pitti Uomo Spring 2016", posted in June 2015. You're right, it's a panama (I thought it was a felt hat...), so it's probably been taken in spring/summer season.

It was the most interesting picture tie-wise that I found in Google Images asking for "Pitti Ouomo 2016".

Well, just forget it then. Any other interesting ties at Pitti?

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Any thoughts on ties at this year's Pitti Ouomo? Based on the pictures I saw, despite all the flashiness, ties don't stand out much... and if they stand out, it's more because of fancy knots than because of fabrics, colours, textures...

This one for example (nice shantung, but not as flashy as the knot and the initials): http://blog.neimanmarcus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DSC_9469.jpg (sorry I just paste a link and not the actual picture, don't want to infringe copyright).

What do you think? Are you going to embroider all your ties' narrow endings with your initials now?

I did that exact tie for several forum members, is raw silk, know as Tussah but the initials were embroied on the inside.

Is the number 4 of this set.

 

[raindog]

Great job, SartodiNapoli, it's a beautiful tie indeed.

I initially thought it was shantung, how would you describe the difference between this Tussah fabric and shantung?...

Man, it makes me realise how many silk fabrics I haven't tried yet!

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Great job, SartodiNapoli, it's a beautiful tie indeed.

I initially thought it was shantung, how would you describe the difference between this Tussah fabric and shantung?...

Man, it makes me realise how many silk fabrics I haven't tried yet!

Hello Raindog, thank you very much.

Honestly I think both are the same thing, and maybe Shangtung might be the original Asian word to describe Tussah? But maybe I am wrong. I have also seen calling raw silk to very smooth and shiny silk, like usual ties but with slubs or wedding suits for men and women from fashion brands as Hugo Boss.

I think Sam Hober might throw some light here since he used to weave it on his Asian house.

Personally, I wear this raw silk slubby ties with Winter flannel suits, since the texture of the fabric looks thick old wool instead of smooth usual silk. Yes, I know on the Drakes web they do recommend for odd Summer jackets, but I find it “odd” myself. lol

Note this is very uncommon in Naples or Italy, I had to import the fabric from England since Drakes put it on fashion, I got to humble reckon it.

 

[Sam Hober]

Honestly I think both are the same thing, and maybe Shangtung might be the original Asian word to describe Tussah? But maybe I am wrong. I have also seen calling raw silk to very smooth and shiny silk, like usual ties but with slubs or wedding suits for men and women from fashion brands as Hugo Boss.

I think Sam Hober might throw some light here since he used to weave it on his Asian house. 

Note this is very uncommon in Naples or Italy, I had to import the fabric from England since Drakes put it on fashion, I got to humble reckon it.   

Shantung is an area of China and for hundreds of years wild silk from here was handwoven in a plain weave.

Tussah is a more general term and not from one special area. It is probably an older term than Shantung.

Wild silk is normally a lower grade of silk and is spun not woven.

We have not used Shantung at any time and we also don't use wild silk as we prefer the higher quality reeled silk.

We have woven silk by hand for a very long time over many generations of Noi's family.

Reeled silk is like fishing line, long and continuous.

 

[Claghorn]

So raw silk (moth is allowed to emerge, right?) is not necessarily shantung or tussah?

 

[Sam Hober]



So raw silk (moth is allowed to emerge, right?) is not necessarily shantung or tussah?

Shantung refers to an area of China

Raw silk refers to the natural coating not being removed.

Normally wild silk will have the moth break the cocoon which then means the silk can't be reeled and must be spun resulting in a lower grade of silk.

Raw silk does not have to be from Shantung - correct and does not have to be Tussah or wild silk.

Example a cultivated silk can be raw silk.

While there will be some traditional silk families in Shantung with their own definitions which in my view are correct - in Italy and elsewhere they will do what they want to do and call the silk what they want to call it...

 

[Claghorn]

Interesting. So what is the process behind rough shot silks? Mine have pretty pronounced slubs, but the silk does also feel...denser, I guess...than some of my raw silk ties.