Mental Health and Clothing

[Leisurely Loafing]

I'm obviously not qualified to speak about how to deal with mental health issues and have no background or training in it. I have noticed, however, that some people come into clothing because they feel it has transformative power. Which it does, to some extent. In my time meeting people who are also interested in clothing and learning about their backstories, I sometimes hear about people who started trying to dress better because they were going through a difficult time, such as divorce.

It seems like a difficult line to ride. On the one hand, I do think that dressing well can make you feel better and give you more self-confidence. I imagine I don't have to tell that to a forum of people who enjoy clothes.

On the other hand, the fashion industry basically runs on this allure. "Wear this thing and you can be rugged." "Wear this thing and you can be elegant." Or "wear this thing and you can be an Italian playboy driving in a convertible car through pastoral hills." So on and so forth.

In reality, you buy these clothes and live the same life. Clothes have some power, but not transformative power. If you are dealing with some issue -- perhaps unhappy in marriage, job, or environment -- you will return to that environment, just in fancier clothes. Sometimes, it seems that people ought to address the fundamental reasons they are unhappy and not use clothing as a salve. (I say this as someone who should take a lot of this same advice).

Of course, there's also the issue of accessibility. Apart from the stigma, it's much easier to buy a suit or sport coat than the services of a mental health professional. And insurance doesn't always cover this stuff.

I use clothing to feel better for the day, such as dressing up and getting out of the house to eat at a nice restaurant. But these experiences don't change some of the fundamental issues in my life. I think it's useful to make this distinction between the small joy that clothing can bring, and the transformative power that someone might need to address more important underlying issues.

Not to make light of a serious discussion, but your comment reminds me of Sandler’s Romano Tours bit from SNL. I thought that bit was spot on similar to your comment.

 

[dieworkwear]

Not to make light of a serious discussion, but your comment reminds me of Sandler’s Romano Tours bit from SNL. I thought that bit was spot on similar to your comment.

Hadn't seen that before and had a really good, actual laugh. That clip is great.

 

[schraiber]

I suppose this is obvious now that I think about it, but a negative side effect of being into style is how it can hurt your body self image in like stupid ways. For instance, I have very short arms and legs and a long torso. Before I got into clothing, I would notice that sometimes a T-shirt or whatever would feel a bit short, or the sleeves on a shirt would be a bit long, but just figured that was a fluke. Now that I'm into dressing, and it's easy to get obsessed with whether a sport jacket is the right length to within an inch, and whether my trousers have the break I want, how long the sleeves of my shirts are, etc, I'm hyper conscious of all of these things. That's obviously negatively impacted my self image.

However, I think that style isn't entirely to blame. One of my other major hobbies is climbing, which ALSO makes it very obvious that my arms are a bit short compared to my height...

 

[comrade]

Don't worry, I wasn't having a go at her. This is how the system works. Similarly, I didn't get a PhD to end up babystting rich kids for 4 years until a job came up at daddy's firm or they could be eased into law school through their connections.

Connections are not what they used to be. My grandson will be starting college (university) in the Fall.
His father is a rich silicon valley type. Competition is intense for the highly selective schools. Alumni
status and donations no longer assure acceptance even for the relatively privileged.

 

[FlyingHorker]

@espen Ping me when you have that self-worth thing figured out, I'm on the same boat. I've never understood having high self-esteem.

@stuffedsuperdud I was reminded of reading about Absurdism some years ago on a surface level. I still have "The Stranger" by Camus, mostly unread. I read a brief excerpt of the "Myth of Sisyphus".

I found it a lot more palatable than pure nihilism and it is one credit to helping me over the years. I'm not sure if my take is existentialist, absurd, or both:

If nothing has any meaning, I'll make one up to get through the day. It's still pointless, but I feel like it's all we can really do to get through the mundane tasks of life.

I slipped back into pure nihilism until reading this thread and remembered how much Absurdism helped me mentally.

 

[DapperPhilly]

Very interesting thread. The old cliche "clothes make the man" came to mind while reading through the commentary.
It got me thinking that what I thought it meant might not be what it meant at all. It might not be as simplistic as it sounds.

I googled it and indeed it is not at all simplistic and has many applications.

 

[krudsma]

Has anyone else struggled with intense embarrassment at having "liking clothes" as a hobby? If I'm shopping online or scrolling through SF I will often jump to another browser tab if someone walks into the room. This might just be a me thing, because I recall this same behavior when I was really into collecting movies. I would also avoid wearing anything that I thought would draw attention. While it's nice to be complimented on something you're wearing, I would dread comments about the fact that I was wearing something worth remarking upon (many times I would pull a blazer out of my closet and then hear my SO's voice in my head say "Oh, blazer is out today", and then put it back). Over the years I've tried to accept and lean into this interest as just a part of who I am. If someone remarks on what I wearing - positively, negatively, or neutrally - so be it. I'm wearing it for my own enjoyment, after all.

I found it a lot more palatable than pure nihilism and it is one credit to helping me over the years. I'm not sure if my take is existentialist, absurd, or both:

If nothing has any meaning, I'll make one up to get through the day. It's still pointless, but I feel like it's all we can really do to get through the mundane tasks of life.

I slipped back into pure nihilism until reading this thread and remembered how much Absurdism helped me mentally.

I just saw Everything Everywhere All At Once, which captures this idea in a really beautiful, bombastic, hilarious, absurd way. It is without a doubt the dumbest thing to ever make me cry. Highly recommended if you're in the mood for something life-affirming.

 

[too_poor_for_this]

Has anyone else struggled with intense embarrassment at having "liking clothes" as a hobby? If I'm shopping online or scrolling through SF I will often jump to another browser tab if someone walks into the room. This might just be a me thing, because I recall this same behavior when I was really into collecting movies. I would also avoid wearing anything that I thought would draw attention. While it's nice to be complimented on something you're wearing, I would dread comments about the fact that I was wearing something worth remarking upon (many times I would pull a blazer out of my closet and then hear my SO's voice in my head say "Oh, blazer is out today", and then put it back). Over the years I've tried to accept and lean into this interest as just a part of who I am. If someone remarks on what I wearing - positively, negatively, or neutrally - so be it. I'm wearing it for my own enjoyment, after all.

I can definitely relate to not wanting to be perceived (at all), which is why i'm far less conscious about wearing >200USD service boots and the like -- just far less noteworthy to the (north) American palate.

I'm also familiar with the embarrassment of being into clothes (or, god forbid... fashion), which is ostensibly a feminine hobby(?!), but i'm relatively immune (if that's the right word) to it now between both comfortable with "feminine" things (hair long enough to fool people, can chit chat cosmetics, ...), having other traditionally "masculine" hobbies (combat sport, etc), and maybe more importantly, just being ok with people having opinions and not paying too much mind to it. I remember a Freakonomics episode way back talking about how people are more OK with failing in certain activities, journeys, etc if they have something they're good at to fall back on -- that might be similar to this as well ("oh, you like fashion?" --> "that's alright bud, i don't need a raving review from you i got other pals to chat with", or maybe if you're not as comfortable with being coded as on the feminine side --> "well, yea, along with home reno, boxing, and eating sawdust for breakfast").

I found it a lot more palatable than pure nihilism and it is one credit to helping me over the years. I'm not sure if my take is existentialist, absurd, or both:

If nothing has any meaning, I'll make one up to get through the day. It's still pointless, but I feel like it's all we can really do to get through the mundane tasks of life.

I slipped back into pure nihilism until reading this thread and remembered how much Absurdism helped me mentally.

The Stranger is one of my favourite reads (helps that it's not too long)! Your take seems to be a microcosm of Sartre's thought that existence precedes essence, if you'd like to read more about it. At least I think -- I'm no scholar...

 

[Goodlander]

2. actually, a course of counselling with a certified professional for say, six sessions, should cost you between $600 and $900 (in Canada).

My wife is a Clinical Psychologist (Ph.D) in the San Francisco Bay Area. While she does see some patients at reduced rates, her regular rates are much higher than the Canadian ones quoted.

Good luck finding a licensed professional who is both experienced and takes insurance, more so off the coasts. As bad as the physical health parts of the US “system” are, emotional/psych health is 10x worse. Thanks to your wife for sticking with her work, it’s super important.

Appreciate this thread so much, I relate to some of the binge buying, “peacock shame”, and toxic aspiration shared here. I do better now, and moderate my time/spending so I enjoy it and am comfortable in my clothes. There’s an app called Closet+ I use that tracks everything I have and is helpful in ID’ing what I wear and what I don’t, and also the value I’m getting for my almost entirely second hand wardrobe. It’s helped me be more thoughtful on eBay and start thinking about the staples to buy new and what is worth it.

I had/have a habit I’ve worked to get over I don’t see in this thread but do see everywhere else on SF, esp CM. I was using my own *perceived* sense of style to help me feel better/more sophisticated than others, especially other men. It took a long time for me to stop feeling superior or smarter or more qualified because of how I felt I was dressed and the “lesser” choices others made. It obviously never worked, and only reinforced my own anxiety and insecurity (and consumption habits).

I’ve improved on that and feel good dressing as I like without having to “win”, enjoying the things I have and cycling out items I don’t wear or that don’t work. I’m also more strategic with both. Better place!

 

[ridgerider]

Good discussion and I can relate to much of what has been said. When friends and colleagues comment on how I dress, I always tell them when I dress the way I do, I make more money. It's simple, it makes me feel better and so when I feel better, my attitude is better, I feel better about myself and I am better with everyone else.

Most of the time, dressing well helps me forget about any current lingering negative thoughts I have about myself, and the best part of aging is those negative thoughts diminish in totality, as time passes for me.

I liked reading about the other tools others use to help them as well, like weight lifting and journaling. Definitely, two good tools that I leverage and enjoy engaging in. I also do a lot of service work in the community, while dressing well, as I find that to be the biggest impact on my mental health. Service work and giving to others, for me, works wonders.

 

[Master Squirrel]

I can definitely relate to not wanting to be perceived (at all), which is why i'm far less conscious about wearing >200USD service boots and the like -- just far less noteworthy to the (north) American palate.

I'm also familiar with the embarrassment of being into clothes (or, god forbid... fashion), which is ostensibly a feminine hobby(?!), but i'm relatively immune (if that's the right word) to it now between both comfortable with "feminine" things (hair long enough to fool people, can chit chat cosmetics, ...), having other traditionally "masculine" hobbies (combat sport, etc), and maybe more importantly, just being ok with people having opinions and not paying too much mind to it. I remember a Freakonomics episode way back talking about how people are more OK with failing in certain activities, journeys, etc if they have something they're good at to fall back on -- that might be similar to this as well ("oh, you like fashion?" --> "that's alright bud, i don't need a raving review from you i got other pals to chat with", or maybe if you're not as comfortable with being coded as on the feminine side --> "well, yea, along with home reno, boxing, and eating sawdust for breakfast").

With the exception of the last two years, people assume I am into clothes. I let them know that I sew (alter) clothes so they fit better and look nicer. People will understand that it is your thing. The ones that don't, tend to be the jerks anyway.

That being said, I noticed that clothes have given me validation now that I am leaving the apartment. I am stopped and asked about my attire whenever I go out. (I've been wearing breeks and riding my English racing bike.) This rebuilds my confidence.

As far as clothes changing my fundamental self? No, but I see them as an expression of my fundamental self.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Has anyone else struggled with intense embarrassment at having "liking clothes" as a hobby? If I'm shopping online or scrolling through SF I will often jump to another browser tab if someone walks into the room. This might just be a me thing, because I recall this same behavior when I was really into collecting movies. I would also avoid wearing anything that I thought would draw attention. While it's nice to be complimented on something you're wearing, I would dread comments about the fact that I was wearing something worth remarking upon (many times I would pull a blazer out of my closet and then hear my SO's voice in my head say "Oh, blazer is out today", and then put it back). Over the years I've tried to accept and lean into this interest as just a part of who I am. If someone remarks on what I wearing - positively, negatively, or neutrally - so be it. I'm wearing it for my own enjoyment, after all.



I just saw Everything Everywhere All At Once, which captures this idea in a really beautiful, bombastic, hilarious, absurd way. It is without a doubt the dumbest thing to ever make me cry. Highly recommended if you're in the mood for something life-affirming.

Yeah 100%, I've been there.

I remember growing up, liking clothes and style was seen to be a feminine, gay pursuit from homophobes.

I've also had my sexuality questioned by people I trust and respect, till this day, with an overtone of "hoping I'm straight". That does involve other factors as well, but that's a different topic.

I accepted my love for fashion and clothing. If anything, it roots out people that I've no more business interacting with.

I also have to thank gay people for normalizing being into style for straight men.

I know that sounds like it contradicts what I wrote up there, but I believe the homophobia towards loving clothing would have been worse if the LGBT community didn't "pave the way" for this to be more acceptable these days.

Googled the movie, I might check it out next month. It looks like pure chaos from the brief skimming of the trailer I saw, and that interests me.

The Stranger is one of my favourite reads (helps that it's not too long)! Your take seems to be a microcosm of Sartre's thought that existence precedes essence, if you'd like to read more about it. At least I think -- I'm no scholar...

If I ever find my motivation to read again, I hope to finish it. The last book I managed to finish was "Night Shift" by Stephen King due to the short story format.

Interesting, I wasn't familiar with Sartre, it sounds like he delves into existentialism, which I'm not as familiar with. This may be a jumping off point for me to research in the future, thanks man.

 

[jreuter]

Most of the unease I feel about being so obsessed and passionate about clothes is reconciling it with the deep existential dread I feel around the impacts overconsumption is having on our planet and communities.

I just started and am enjoying Alec Leach’s new short manifesto of a book on this topic: “The world is on fire but we’re still buying shoes.“ https://alecleach.com/

I’ve also dramatically reduced my purchases this year (limited to 6 non-essential items) and found it makes me actually enjoy clothing even more. The self-created scarcity makes each purchase a bigger decision - increasing the dopamine for each purchase regardless of price. YMMV.

 

[Geoffrey Firmin]

2. actually, a course of counselling with a certified professional for say, six sessions, should cost you between $600 and $900 (in Canada).

My wife is a Clinical Psychologist (Ph.D) in the San Francisco Bay Area. While she does see some patients at reduced rates, her regular rates are much higher than the Canadian ones quoted.

Thank the Bodhisattvas for socialist medicine. In Australia you can go to your GP have it bulk billed and get a mental health plan which will give six subsidised sessions. Which being the owner of Black Dog has come in handy over the years. Also a lot of Employee Assistance Programs allow the spouse of the employee to access services.

As for clothing, dressing well definitely helps you achieve a positive frame of mind both in relation to your own self image but also simply via the comfort factor. Winter is coming here so the cor-du-roy trousers are soon to emerge.

Mind you the only thing I obsess over these days is what is age appropriate dressing for a 64 year old male.

 

[JJ Katz]

Just wanted to say, to all the folks with coping issues: good luck and hang in there. I think it must be very hard but awareness is at least a first step, no?

I have definitely come to know several people, through my interest in (rather retro) CM, that would say they have a problematic relationship with everyday life and for whom clothing is something of a refuge