Law Schools - Where and Why?

[randomkoreandude]

lord: also depends on what job you had when you grad and from what school and how well you did there plus the rest of your cv

i grad from CWRU (known only for med & eng, which is why i went in the first place) with poli sci & soci and i had a job offer at a prominent lobbying firm in DC but the pay wasnt what i wanted. i think he was going to give me 45-50k ish. but i didnt get that job from my school or grades as much as my own hustle as you said. i worked over the summer with them and they loved me. i could have gone to any school for that job

for me i ended up taking the lsat senior year, scored pretty well, got in early at gtown, deferred and took the year off to "relax" while i tutored some students on the side

 

[Kid Nickels]



From what I've observed, it's not that a humanities degree precludes you from getting a decent job, it's that those degrees simply do not open any doors for you. It's great that you found a good job based on your hustle and other personal traits, but that's not an endorsement of your degree so much as it reflects on you as a person. I'd speculate that pairing your personal virtues with a useful degree, like engineering or computer science degree, would have raised your ceiling immensley. When you spend 4 years and tens of thousands, I think you should expect to be learning a skill set that will make you a desired commodity upon graduation.

You would think so but universities are just businesses. I mean wtf is someone going to do with a philosophy, history, or anthropology degree all by itself? Aside from going the academic route, they are just reasonable foundations and stepping stones to some other grad degree. Fortunately, I got a full ride in undergrad and didn't owe a dime. Any money I borrow can be applied directly to grad school.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



From what I've observed, it's not that a humanities degree precludes you from getting a decent job, it's that those degrees simply do not open any doors for you. It's great that you found a good job based on your hustle and other personal traits, but that's not an endorsement of your degree so much as it reflects on you as a person. I'd speculate that pairing your personal virtues with a useful degree, like engineering or computer science degree, would have raised your ceiling immensley. When you spend 4 years and tens of thousands, I think you should expect to be learning a skill set that will make you a desired commodity upon graduation.

I think what people often forget about engineering or computer science is that for many, many people studying these fields and then working in them would be horrifically boring. I was certainly one of those people. I work with engineers now and can't see myself doing what they do and I certainly couldn't have spent four years studying what they did.

A job, and your education, should be at the intersection of what you like, what you're good at, and what others will pay you to do. A lot of engineering students I've known were neither good at it or enjoyed it, and were therefore miserable in their studies and their subsequent careers.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



You would think so but universities are just businesses. I mean wtf is someone going to do with a philosophy, history, or anthropology degree all by itself? Aside from going the academic route, they are just reasonable foundations and stepping stones to some other grad degree. Fortunately, I got a full ride in undergrad and didn't owe a dime. Any money I borrow can be applied directly to grad school.

No one finds a job working as a philosopher, but you can find entry level work in many businesses with a variety of degrees.

As I said, Political Science degree here and I work in business for a large corporation.

 

[Kid Nickels]



No one finds a job working as a philosopher, but you can find entry level work in many businesses with a variety of degrees.
As I said, Political Science degree here and I work in business for a large corporation.

right. Of course I'm limiting the scope as such.... some of those degrees will open doors into entry level positions of a somewhat related (or not) nature... but from a literal standpoint, ya you are not actually getting paid to philosophize or be Indiana Jones or something.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



right. Of course I'm limiting the scope as such.... some of those degrees will open doors into entry level positions of a somewhat related (or not) nature... but from a literal standpoint, ya you are not actually getting paid to philosophize or be Indiana Jones or something.

Of course not. But people get too hung up on getting a degree that leads directly to a given career. And those degrees are relatively few and many of them are in hard sciences/engineering. And those fields just aren't interesting to a lot of people.

With that said, you're absolutely right that a student who graduates with a social science/humanities degree will need to put in a lot more legwork to secure employment than someone with a hard science degree.

 

[facebookdigg123]



Have you thought about switching gears altogether and pursuing a medical or pharmacy degree? You could get your undergrad biology, organic chemistry, etc. pre-reqs out of the way while you work and then be in position get into a program that would guarantee you a job upon graduation. Don't confine your options to law school just because that's most compatible with your worthless undergrad degree. That's throwing good money after bad. Accept that you've been duped like the majority of college-goers in this country, accept that your undergrad is a sunk cost that isn't likely to ever provide an acceptable ROI, and just hit reset. If I was in your position again, I'd have just started all over at age 22 and become a dentist or something. I know guys who graduated from D.O. programs that start out making nearly as much as a big law pays Ivy League grads.

there are actually quite a few lawyers who gave up their jobs and go to med school. not an easy road either, but the job security is nice

 

[IUtoSLU]



Thanks for the insight, especially the comparison to Davis. Davis is ranked higher than Hastings but the employment numbers are nearly identical, which makes sense given the relative newness of Davis. The employment numbers for Irvine have looked very promising, despite the lack of an alumni network. I think they placed the highest % of clerks outside of HYS.
I'll just have to sit tight and see how scholarships and acceptances pan out. Hastings hasn't even begun sending out acceptances.

Myabe this has been said, but you can't trust any school's "employment numbers." This is a well-known and documented problem with the ABA's regulation on employment reporting. Most schools report 90% employment within 9 months, but the reality is that the school will have 30% employed in bar-passage-required jobs. Buyer beware.

Also, clerk placement doesn't mean much unless you are truly an amazing student and person.

 

[Kid Nickels]



lord: also depends on what job you had when you grad and from what school and how well you did there plus the rest of your cv
i grad from CWRU (known only for med & eng, which is why i went in the first place) with poli sci & soci and i had a job offer at a prominent lobbying firm in DC but the pay wasnt what i wanted. i think he was going to give me 45-50k ish. but i didnt get that job from my school or grades as much as my own hustle as you said. i worked over the summer with them and they loved me. i could have gone to any school for that job
for me i ended up taking the lsat senior year, scored pretty well, got in early at gtown, deferred and took the year off to "relax" while i tutored some students on the side

hey random... we have a similar story... I did much the same and a CWRU grad as well... I killed the LSAT last year and now I'm just waiting on acceptances. (btw... Case's business and law have come a long way.... Weatherhead ranked #34 and CWRU law #55)

 

[randomkoreandude]

whoa nice to see another cwru grad ...

yeah weatherhead has always been pretty good. mr pbl put a lot into the school and surprised its not ranked higher tbh. law has also come a long way but wouldnt go even with a full ride and they paid me lol.

im glad i ended up where i did and i owe cwru a lil credit but i HATED that school

 

[Kid Nickels]



whoa nice to see another cwru grad ...
yeah weatherhead has always been pretty good. mr pbl put a lot into the school and surprised its not ranked higher tbh. law has also come a long way but wouldnt go even with a full ride and they paid me lol.
im glad i ended up where i did and i owe cwru a lil credit but i HATED that school

jeez it's even more funny to hear how similar perspectives we have... agree with all you said above! I actually went there for undergrad on a full-ride, also hated (an continue to loathe) Cleveland, only kept my sanity by doing a junior year abroad in Australia, and also would not go back there even with another full-ride and a six figure stipend! haha.... (seven maybe )

 

[Huntsman]

CWRU Law gave me a full ride and a stipend, and I turned them down, though I love Cleveland.

 

[Kid Nickels]



CWRU Law gave me a full ride and a stipend, and I turned them down, though I love Cleveland.

r u serious? you must be f'g w/ me!

 

[NAMOR]

How'd you guess?
Current scholarship offers have not been promising... I'll have a better idea in another month.

Poli sci and I had a job before I even graduated.

It's all about the legwork, friends. There's almost nothing in life you can't land with a little hustle, but if you think your fucked just because you have a social science or humanities degree, you're not going to go far in anything you do.

LB, you are a savvy fellow, no doubt, but its annoying that you try to make a point at every mother ******* turn. hustle indeed

 

[skitlets]



Myabe this has been said, but you can't trust any school's "employment numbers." This is a well-known and documented problem with the ABA's regulation on employment reporting. Most schools report 90% employment within 9 months, but the reality is that the school will have 30% employed in bar-passage-required jobs. Buyer beware.
Also, clerk placement doesn't mean much unless you are truly an amazing student and person.

No doubt. I've been looking up numbers reported by firms rather than schools.

19 students out of a class of about 80 for the graduating 2012 class landed clerkships from UCI. They've gotta be doing something right.