Gun suggestions

[milosz]

My only complaint with the XD is the high bore-axis. The beauty of the 1911 (as well as Glocks and M&Ps) is how easy it is to bring back on target thanks to a the lower axis. That's another reason I prefer my plastic guns to Sigs and H&Ks.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the ideal first 'real' pistol might be the CZ 75B - cheap, all-steel, heavy (in 9mm, there's almost no felt recoil), accurate and reliable. You can use it either cocked-and-locked (safety on, all single-action pulls) or in DA/SA mode (like a Sig or standard H&K).

In 1911 land, there are plenty of serviceable low-cost options - but you're getting small, black on black sights, probably not the finest trigger out there and potential reliability issues. Field stripping/cleaning a 1911 is also quite a bit more work for a beginner than your average plastic gun.

I miss the Colt Series 70 reissue I had (sold to fund other guns). Great trigger out of the box, big (black on black - er, blue on blue) sights and perfectly reliable. But I thought I was getting a Nighthawk soon, so off it went...

 

[suited]

As far as 1911's, I look for several things when buying a firearm, and one is physical appearance. Lets be honest, we all want a firearm that we love the design of, first and foremost. Most people aren't going to buy a gun if they aren't in love with its design. I just don't find 1911's all that appealing.

A Ruger .357 would be another great option, if you want to go the revolver route. It's a quality gun and cheaper than S&W.

Find a good range, you should be able to rent and shoot 2 or 3 of the brands discussed in this thread. If you're picking among top quality brands, it really just comes down to what gun you think has the best physical design and more importantly which gun feels the best in your hand.

 

[Kengs]

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

So no lower than a 40...10mm is an EXCELLENT round, but is extremely expensive to shoot. You can get killer ballistics out of it for cheap if you handload, though. I never was a big fan of 40 S&W, either. So my suggestion goes to .45 ACP.

40 S&W is basically a shorty 10mm, and is an excellent pistol caliber. However, not the ideal choice for an inexperienced shooter.

9mm is perfectly acceptable for self-defense IF you are careful with ammo selection. I recommend a 124gr. Hydrashock or Gold Dot, preferably the +P (or +P+ if you can find it). Stay away from the subsonic 147gr. "FBI" loads.

With 9mm, you have the advantage of cheaper ammunition, less felt recoil and greater ammo capacity.

I don't know if Jan Libourel is still on SF, but he would probably be able to give you some more helpful advice.

 

[Spilotro]

Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr. is also a great choice as a 9mm load. Remember the Black Talon? This is it, wearing a different nametag.

 

[mr.loverman]

sorry i didn't read your post. thoroughly. that was a dick move. but you should def do a lot of thinking about what you want to use the guns for before you buy them. otherwise you'd be wasting your $. unless you just want them to hang on the wall.



get a nice colt 1911 or a belgian made high power. if you like glocks get one.

a mini 14 ranch would be fun as hell.

the remington 870 is ubiquitous for a reason.

tell us more about what you want them for

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

One of my favorite handguns was a 9mm Beretta, light easy to use.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by Kengs

40 S&W is basically a shorty 10mm, and is an excellent pistol caliber. However, not the ideal choice for an inexperienced shooter.

9mm is perfectly acceptable for self-defense IF you are careful with ammo selection. I recommend a 124gr. Hydrashock or Gold Dot, preferably the +P (or +P+ if you can find it). Stay away from the subsonic 147gr. "FBI" loads.

With 9mm, you have the advantage of cheaper ammunition, less felt recoil and greater ammo capacity.

I don't know if Jan Libourel is still on SF, but he would probably be able to give you some more helpful advice.

I'm still active in SF and discoursed at modest length in post #50 on this thread and in a couple of shorter posts thereafter.

I am a little hesitant to recommend 9mm +P+ loads or the very hottest 9mm +P ammo because it can compromise reliability in otherwise extremely reliable pistols.

I don't know why you state an inexperienced shooter would be ill-served by the .40 S&W. If he started out with a gun of reasonable weight and did his shooting with the moderate 180/950 loads, I shouldn't think its recoil would be especially daunting.

 

[Kengs]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I'm still active in SF and discoursed at modest length in post #50 on this thread and in a couple of shorter posts thereafter.

I am a little hesitant to recommend 9mm +P+ loads or the very hottest 9mm +P ammo because it can compromise reliability in otherwise extremely reliable pistols.

I don't know why you state an inexperienced shooter would be ill-served by the .40 S&W. If he started out with a gun of reasonable weight and did his shooting with the moderate 180/950 loads, I shouldn't think its recoil would be especially daunting.


Glad to see you on here; I need to show you my new AR multitool

I've never had any problems shooting +P or +P+ loads, what sort of cyclic problems have you encountered?

 

[JustinW]

Originally Posted by Spilotro

Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr. is also a great choice as a 9mm load. Remember the Black Talon? This is it, wearing a different nametag.

Really? That's the teflon-coated anti-ballistic armor "cop killer" round, isn't it? I have a box of that in .45acp somewhere. I thought it was banned or withdrawn or something after some bad publicity about 15 years ago.

 

[Nil]

Originally Posted by JustinW

Really? That's the teflon-coated anti-ballistic armor "cop killer" round, isn't it? I have a box of that in .45acp somewhere. I thought it was banned or withdrawn or something after some bad publicity about 15 years ago.

That "teflon-coated cop killer bullet" nonsense is just that: nonsense. While there are indeed teflon-coated bullets, the coating has nothing to do with increased penetration. It's merely there to protect the barrel from wear.

If I'm not mistaken, the Black Talon round that garnered such bad publicity was withdrawn, but like Spilotro said, it was just rebranded and put back out on the market.

 

[Nil]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I'm still active in SF and discoursed at modest length in post #50 on this thread and in a couple of shorter posts thereafter.

I am a little hesitant to recommend 9mm +P+ loads or the very hottest 9mm +P ammo because it can compromise reliability in otherwise extremely reliable pistols.

I don't know why you state an inexperienced shooter would be ill-served by the .40 S&W. If he started out with a gun of reasonable weight and did his shooting with the moderate 180/950 loads, I shouldn't think its recoil would be especially daunting.

As with any self defense round, several boxes of the ammo of choice should be run through the pistol prior to using it for its intended purpose. If such measures are taken, I see no reason why +P ammo should not be used.

My experience with beginning shooters is that they are prone to developing flinching habits, something that would be exacerbated by using a relatively "snappy" round like the .40. Too many people get caught up in the caliber wars while not realizing that there are many high quality self defense rounds available in 9mm that would be quite a bit easier to handle than similar offerings in larger calibers.

 

[mr.loverman]

on second thought. if you have that much of budget just get an 870, a ruger 10/22 and a ruger MkIII .22 or a browning buckmark .22.

you'll want to shoot a lot to learn properly and .22 is the only reasonable thing to start with.

i'd definitely get in touch with shooting friends. you want to be safe. take classes. read books do research. guns can kill people. the question of owning them should be discussed with responsible people who you respect and trust. not strangers on the internet. this post is a little scary.

 

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by JustinW

Really? That's the teflon-coated anti-ballistic armor "cop killer" round, isn't it? I have a box of that in .45acp somewhere. I thought it was banned or withdrawn or something after some bad publicity about 15 years ago.
No, neither the Black Talon nor the SXT is the so-called 'Cop Killer' bullet so famously mis characterized by almost all of the public. The bullet you refer to is called the KTW -- the initials are for the inventers, one of whom is a police officer. The bullet was invented to gain greater penetration for the (at the time) standard .38 Special rounds the police were carrying. That increased penetration was targeted towards hard resistance -- especially car doors and such. The performance increase due to the coating and the extra hard bullet material (Kennametal, IIRC) yielded siginifcant penetration increases. The bullet was designed for and sold exclusively to the police market, though some of course got out. I don't think anyone on the side of the law was ever killed/injured with one, but I could be wrong. They are quite rare. They are also green in color.

Originally Posted by Nil

That "teflon-coated cop killer bullet" nonsense is just that: nonsense. While there are indeed teflon-coated bullets, the coating has nothing to do with increased penetration. It's merely there to protect the barrel from wear.
No, all of that is completely wrong. The coating absolutely contributed to increased penetration on hard targets, that's what it was designed to do. While it is true that most of the KTW rounds were made with an extra-hard core, and that the coating did protect the rifling from erosion, many of the KTW bullets were made with standard cores and the coating simply because that was a highly effective combination on its own. On soft body armour I don't think it mattered much as the mechanism by which Teflon eased passage of the core cannot operate. ~ Huntsman

 

[Arethusa]

Can you cite that? That doesn't agree with absolutely anything I've ever read about terminal ballistics or body armor, and the only situation in which I can imagine teflon aiding penetration is possibly a subsonic spitzer bullet against soft armor.

 

[milosz]

The KTW round used a brass core rather than deformable lead. Teflon as an external coating has never been proven to increase effective penetration.