Fresh graduate to work overseas

[Will19]

Hi all. I am an Indonesian and currently studying in Malaysia taking Accounting & Finance major under England curriculum. Gonna graduate next year (22 years old) and been thinking to work overseas, maybe in US or England and I have a few questions.
How is salary in England or America (fresh graduate bachelor degree) and salary for local compared to international worker, is it the same? And is it harder for non local to apply job in there?
Thank you before

 

[Millerp]

Salary would be the same but acquiring immigration status allowing you to
work in either England or the US is not easy.

 

[VinnyMac]

If you can make it into the U.S and gain the right to work, the salary would be the same. As far as the average salary goes, it depends on the position and the company.

 

[Trompe le Monde]

in my industry, for equivalent jobs, salaries for locally hired persons are more or less:

norway > australia > canada/america >>> uk/europe >>>>>>> indonesia

for those on "international contracts", it depends where one moves from, moves to, and some negotiation.

generally speaking, europe and uki seems much narrower in earning stratification between working to the upper-professional classes. in north america, that spread is much wider, benefiting those on the top half

 

[Will19]

Thank you guys, well now I'm lookin at Australia too, it's also near from indonesia. Usually do we need to apply for working visa first then sending cv after the visa is accepted or should we send cv and after we get the opportunities for interview we apply for the visa?

 

[km83]

You really need to look into it a bit more than - "do I send the CV and get the visa or get the visa and then send the CV". I would pony up the cash and find an immigration lawyer, a decent one recommended by the government etc and go from there. Australian immigration rules will only tighten in the next few years.

Also, not to sound like a bastard but how good is your English? A lot of people come to Australia from parts of Asia speaking English but it's not to a level required for a professional position. It's not like Europe where people overlook English mistakes because it's everyone's second language.

Again I hope I'm not sounding too discouraging but given the GFC a lot of people from all over the world are coming to Australia, unemployment is still low, but you would want to make sure all your ducks are in a row before you start shooting. Be especially careful about which visa you arrive on, it can be almost impossible to change once you are here.

I've got a lot of mates in your situation who've come to Australia (usually from the ME or Asia), either to study or work and couldn't make it work.

 

[Millerp]

Actually the easiest thing to do is get a job in your own country working for a company that
has international branches. Apply for a transfer and have the company do all the immigration
paperwork for you. This will not get you permanent residency or citizenship in the adopted
country, but if you want international work experience, it's an option to consider.








........

 

[AlexE]



Actually the easiest thing to do is get a job in your own country working for a company that
has international branches. Apply for a transfer and have the company do all the immigration
paperwork for you. This will not get you permanent residency or citizenship in the adopted
country, but if you want international work experience, it's an option to consider.
........

This ... or apply for an international company's branch in Malaysia or Indonesia and try to get a transfer to their headquarters.

The following is based on my experience living and working both in the US and the EU: Companies need to go through a lot of hassle to obtain working permits for non-residents (this is in the US actually even worse than in most EU countries). Obviously, they will only do this if you bring a special skill to the table (this means have an advanced engineering or science degree) or if they are 100% sure that you can live and succeed in the local environment. Hence, they usually hire foreigners without work permit only if they have special competences and knowledge or if they have graduated from a local university (in the latter case students are often allowed to work for a limited time on their student visas, which makes things easier for employers). Since you do not possess a skill which is in short supply and since you did not attend school in the US, UK etc. getting directly in a foreign country will be very difficult.

Also, I would rethink my selection of countries, both the labor markets in the US and UK are still not as healthy as prior to the financial crisis. You probably should also consider other countries, which are in a better shape.

 

[Medwed]



If you can make it into the U.S and gain the right to work, the salary would be the same.

Disagree, the reason US Corps would spend money on H1B to bring you over is not because you possess unique accounting skills unseen anywhere in US. It is because they can pay you less and keep you tied to the company for 5-6 years . You can switch jobs on H1B but for another H1B slavery. If you want to stay and get Green Card you cannot leave your Co. for 5-6 years.
The whole spiel that H1B suppose to be paid the same as US workers is a smoke screen; every title in US has a range of salary. Example: Accountant, your range could from 45K to 95K per year, and that is how it is for any position in Corp world . What do you think they gonna pay H1B applicant ?

 

[Gibonius]



Disagree, the reason US Corps would spend money on H1B to bring you over is not because you possess unique accounting skills unseen anywhere in US. It is because they can pay you less and keep you tied to the company for 5-6 years . You can switch jobs on H1B but for another H1B slavery. If you want to stay and get Green Card you cannot leave your Co. for 5-6 years.
The whole spiel that H1B suppose to be paid the same as US workers is a smoke screen; every title in US has a range of salary. Example: Accountant, your range could from 45K to 95K per year, and that is how it is for any position in Corp world . What do you think they gonna pay H1B applicant ?

This was always my understanding for how it works in STEM jobs. H1b's are cheap labor, to be exploited because of their particular legal scenario. They're not part of the usual labor market since the visa is tied to their place of employment, so they don't get paid market rates. Often expected to work harder/longer hours for lower pay too.

 

[AlexE]



This was always my understanding for how it works in STEM jobs. H1b's are cheap labor, to be exploited because of their particular legal scenario. They're not part of the usual labor market since the visa is tied to their place of employment, so they don't get paid market rates. Often expected to work harder/longer hours for lower pay too.

Sorry, I did complete a STEM PhD in the US and worked there after graduation in management consulting for a couple of years. Hence, I know the salary I got compared to co-workers and I also know it for friends who moved into corporate R&D departments. None of them including myself got paid less than American coworkers and they were hired due to the simple fact that Americans are in the minority at STEM grad schools and not necessarily the top-graduates. In each case the employer started the green card application as soon as possible - unfortunately companies have little influence on the length of the green card process, which is a bureaucratic mess. Back in Europe, I was surprised how easy it is for companies in Germany, which hardly anybody would consider a traditional immigration country, to get work permits (which allow change of employer) for highly skilled labor compared to the United States.

 

[Gibonius]



Sorry, I did complete a STEM PhD in the US and worked there after graduation in management consulting for a couple of years. Hence, I know the salary I got compared to co-workers and I also know it for friends who moved into corporate R&D departments. None of them including myself got paid less than American coworkers and they were hired due to the simple fact that Americans are in the minority at STEM grad schools and not necessarily the top-graduates. In each case the employer started the green card application as soon as possible - unfortunately companies have little influence on the length of the green card process, which is a bureaucratic mess. Back in Europe, I was surprised how easy it is for companies in Germany, which hardly anybody would consider a traditional immigration country, to get work permits (which allow change of employer) for highly skilled labor compared to the United States.

Most STEM jobs are not at the PhD level, which was what I was talking about there (probably should have clarified). Technically most "STEM" jobs are low level programming jobs (and the vast majority of H1b's), if you really get into the numbers.

Certainly, it's a good point that it's different for PhD level jobs. Employers are only going to hire PhD level workers that they want to keep around. Not so much for non-PhD level jobs. Most of the demand for expanding H1b's is for those low level jobs, and at that position, employers have every incentive to pay you less than domestic workers (and do so).

they were hired due to the simple fact that Americans are in the minority at STEM grad schools and not necessarily the top-graduates

Not actually true, closer to 50/50. American citizens made up 55% of STEM PhD graduates in 2009. Regardless, there's a shortage in many fields so the rest of your point holds.

 

[AlexE]



Most STEM jobs are not at the PhD level, which was what I was talking about there (probably should have clarified). Technically most "STEM" jobs are low level programming jobs (and the vast majority of H1b's), if you really get into the numbers.

True - the majority of jobs are probably below Master or PhD level. Nevertheless, 20000 out of the 85000 annual H1B visas are reserved for students who graduated with a Master or PhD from a U.S. university. The remaining 65000 visas are usually allocated with a lottery to the remaining visa applicants which include everything from programmers from overseas to Physics PhDs from top schools. Hence, the advanced degree holder still make up at least a substantial minority.

However, I am convinced that the share of H1B visas going to foreign advanced degree students at U.S. schools will go down. According to this http://www.iie.org/Research-and-Pub...By-Academic-Level-and-Place-of-Origin/2011-12 about half of the foreign graduate students in the U.S. come from China and India. Historically, they would have done everything to stay after graduation in the U.S., but this has changed: Now they need to consider if they wanna go back home where the U.S. degree will accelerate their career and open them all doors in fast growing economies or if they wanna endure an extremely tedious process to get a green card after 5+ years. This might make the H1B opponents happy, but I am not sure how good this will be for U.S. competitiveness.

 

[Medwed]



Sorry, I did complete a STEM PhD in the US and worked there after graduation in management consulting for a couple of years. Hence, I know the salary I got compared to co-workers and I also know it for friends who moved into corporate R&D departments. None of them including myself got paid less than American coworkers and they were hired due to the simple fact that Americans are in the minority at STEM grad schools and not necessarily the top-graduates.

How did you established that fact? Did you ask your Amer. co-workers for the size of their salary? Or did you go to HR department and demanded to know ?

Your implication that Asians are just smarter and thus at the top of their class does not seem to reflect the real distribution of the world scientific awards, discoveries or even quotations in sci. literature.

 

[AlexE]



How did you established that fact? Did you ask your Amer. co-workers for the size of their salary? Or did you go to HR department and demanded to know ?

Your implication that Asians are just smarter and thus at the top of their class does not seem to reflect the real distribution of the world scientific awards, discoveries or even quotations in sci. literature.

How, I established that fact? I did something completely crazy - I got promoted and involved in the selection and hiring of candidates.

I actually never mentioned that one race is smarter than another one and I actually cannot find any reference to Asians at all in my original posting.