Equus Leather - English Handstitched Bridle Leather Belts - Official Affiliate and Review Thread

[TimothyF]

He lost his tools and supplies in the settlement and has had to find a way to provide for his family by other means.

You really expect him to dip into whatever savings he has – and spend the time he has outside his new work – making good on those orders?

Do you know these for a fact, or just speculating?

Hopefully everyone on both sides of the debate can agree that it is wrong to leave paying customers with outstanding orders in the dark. Even in your outlined worst case scenario, an apologies email with some facts of their financial straits could go a long way in soothing customers' (IMO justified) grievances

 

[LA Guy]

I'll grant your premise. Most of the costs of a belt = cost of leather + their labor. I know the owner can sew, and assuming their workstation isn't padlocked, he can't go in, use his tools, remaining leather, and (you know) spend the needed time to churn out customers' paid-for belts? Or, if the above assumption isn't sound, then assuming he hasn't declared personal bankruptcy, then it costs what, some hundred bucks, or even $1000, to buy the hides and sewing supplies?

So, in other words... not be out of business?

 

[bjhofkin]

Do you know these for a fact, or just speculating?

Hopefully everyone on both sides of the debate can agree that it is wrong to leave paying customers with outstanding orders in the dark. Even in your outlined worst case scenario, an apologies email with some facts of their financial straits could go a long way in soothing customers' (IMO justified) grievances

I think you can answer your own question.

As for writing an email or a note here, sure. But maybe a little humanity is in order, no?

 

[marlinspike]

So, in other words... not be out of business?

I have seen other businesses shutter that did a similar business in the sense of long lead times and a trade that is no longer highly valued, and they fulfilled outstanding orders and stopped taking new ones before shutting the doors. It's not entirely unheard of.

 

[LA Guy]

I have seen other businesses shutter that did a similar business in the sense of long lead times and a trade that is no longer highly valued, and they fulfilled outstanding orders and stopped taking new ones before shutting the doors. It's not entirely unheard of.

I've seen this as well - in fact I was the recipient of a gift 15 months in the making. Those businesses typically are run by the last of an intergenerational business is semi-retirement. Very romantic, but also a luxury, and often with the business unemcumbeed by debt, wth physical plant and equipment long paid for.

 

[TimothyF]

I think you can answer your own question.

As for writing an email or a note here, sure. But maybe a little humanity is in order, no?

Gosh, with your forgiving nature I'd love to sell you some NFTs. I would least want to be listed your beneficiary.

But honestly we all have different value systems, and no one's is really more correct than anothers. I do think yours is on one end of the spectrum.

 

[TimothyF]

I've seen this as well - in fact I was the recipient of a gift 15 months in the making. Those businesses typically are run by the last of an intergenerational business is semi-retirement. Very romantic, but also a luxury, and often with the business unemcumbeed by debt, wth physical plant and equipment long paid for.

I also know of true stories where a similar adverse event occurs, but the individual cannot bear with his conscience so he makes everyone whole, even if it takes 20 years. Adversity reveals character, and I guess time will tell which camp our person of interest falls into.

It really doesn't take a "business" to sit down and stitch leather, just the decency to do right by people

 

[bjhofkin]

Gosh, with your forgiving nature I'd love to sell you some NFTs. I would least want to be listed your beneficiary.

I have no idea what NFT's have to do with any of this, but whatever.

At any rate I reject the "forgiveness" framing – to me this is about reasonableness, proportionality, and just trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you think that makes me sanctimonious, I don't know what to tell you.

How much are you out anyway?

It really doesn't take a "business" to sit down and stitch leather, just the decency to do right by people

This is just bananas on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.

 

[TimothyF]

lol I just hope that you are happy where you are, and scams like this stay clear of your life. I ain't here to give morality lessons. But I'm pretty sure just about every scamster and fraudster started out destitute and/or mentally ill, so trying to put myself in his/her shoes means I should commiserate and mitigate?

I recall someone here has the business owner's personal contacts, and is reaching out. So until we get any concrete information, I'm out

 

[wklq76a]

lol I just hope that you are happy where you are, and scams like this stay clear of your life. I ain't here to give morality lessons. But I'm pretty sure just about every scamster and fraudster started out destitute and/or mentally ill, so trying to put myself in his/her shoes means I should commiserate and mitigate?

I recall someone here has the business owner's personal contacts, and is reaching out. So until we get any concrete information, I'm out

 

[somatoform]

Ignorant as I am to business and supply and wholesale bulk purchasing, I am curious though. Just taking the belts as an example. Charlie was the main leather crafter, so no possibility of arguing that the leather worker(s) who made up Equus left or could not be paid. And while I know belt-making is a talent, I also know, attested by how many DIY belt makers have emerged in the past 10 years or so and just a bit of experience with buying such belts (even highly refined ones), that alot of hides are coming in pre-dyed, conditioned and even finished at the back (already done ny Sedgewick or Bakers or whoever) and, therefore, not even requiring to be split to the desired thickness, say 10oz. Few tools are needed to cut a strap, bevel edges, wax the edges, skiv the fold of the belt, punch holes and attach buckle.

Maybe he didn't have the hides, but assuming he had some hides kicking around, I am curious why the main leather crafter would not be able to fulfill, say, just belts. I mean, this belt-making and Charlie's involvement in it is not like a brand sending of a leather jacket order to Italy or shoe order to Hungary.

Perhaps I'm not understanding bankruptcy properly i.e., there's no half-waying it; if you know that declaring it is inevitable than all operations must cease(?).

With the exception of some leather samples many years ago, I never ordered anything from Equus. They were pleasant to deal with through email exchange, but I was only ever interested in a lined and raised bridle belt (1" wide) but the $700 to $800 CAD price tag was too laughable.

 

[LA Guy]

Ignorant as I am to business and supply and wholesale bulk purchasing, I am curious though. Just taking the belts as an example. Charlie was the main leather crafter, so no possibility of arguing that the leather worker(s) who made up Equus left or could not be paid. And while I know belt-making is a talent, I also know, attested by how many DIY belt makers have emerged in the past 10 years or so and just a bit of experience with buying such belts (even highly refined ones), that alot of hides are coming in pre-dyed, conditioned and even finished at the back (already done ny Sedgewick or Bakers or whoever) and, therefore, not even requiring to be split to the desired thickness, say 10oz. Few tools are needed to cut a strap, bevel edges, wax the edges, skiv the fold of the belt, punch holes and attach buckle.

Maybe he didn't have the hides, but assuming he had some hides kicking around, I am curious why the main leather crafter would not be able to fulfill, say, just belts. I mean, this belt-making and Charlie's involvement in it is not like a brand sending of a leather jacket order to Italy or shoe order to Hungary.

Perhaps I'm not understanding bankruptcy properly i.e., there's no half-waying it; if you know that declaring it is inevitable than all operations must cease(?).

With the exception of some leather samples many years ago, I never ordered anything from Equus. They were pleasant to deal with through email exchange, but I was only ever interested in a lined and raised bridle belt (1" wide) but the $700 to $800 CAD price tag was too laughable.

I don’t know yet, but I’m assuming that they just were no longer able to finance whatever debt they had, not because they could not physically make belts, briefcases, etc… This is typically why businesses fold. The possible reasons they got to this point are many. And I am pretty sure that you can’t both continue your business operations and declare bankruptcy.

 

[MattyS]

I don’t know yet, but I’m assuming that they just were no longer able to finance whatever debt they had, not because they could not physically make belts, briefcases, etc… This is typically why businesses fold. The possible reasons they got to this point are many. And I am pretty sure that you can’t both continue your business operations and declare bankruptcy.

Right. If the company owed money to creditors -- banks, leather suppliers, tool suppliers, workshop rent, or whatever -- and that money was due (and further financing and renegotiation were not possible), then the owners had only one viable option: declare bankruptcy (at which point they forfeit control over any remaining business assets). The alternative would have been to expose themselves to legal action which could threaten their personal possessions, including their home.

Companies declare bankruptcy when they cannot possible make good on all of their financial obligations and pay all of their debts. In that situation, it's inevitable that somebody is not going to get paid (or get the goods they paid for).

 

[MattyS]

Right. If the company owed money to creditors -- banks, leather suppliers, tool suppliers, workshop rent, or whatever -- and that money was due (and further financing and renegotiation were not possible), then the owners had only one viable option: declare bankruptcy (at which point they forfeit control over any remaining business assets). The alternative would have been to expose themselves to legal action which could threaten their personal possessions, including their home.

Companies declare bankruptcy when they cannot possible make good on all of their financial obligations and pay all of their debts. In that situation, it's inevitable that somebody is not going to get paid (or get the goods they paid for).

I should add that, at least in the US, there is a form of bankruptcy that allows a company to continue operating while it restructures its financial obligations. (This the familiar Chapter 11 bankruptcy.) But clearly Equus is going through a liquidating bankruptcy (equivalent to Chapter 7 in the US).

 

[TheIronDandy]

I'm one of those who didn't get my order completed, so obviously a bit frustrated (though my credit card issuer was very supportive, and I've been fully reimbursed).

On one hand, I'm feeling quite a bit of resentment because of the horrible communication. It's one thing that you are unable to meet your commitments, but ghosting customers while you keep taking orders until the day you close shop feels like a ****** move, quite frankly.

On the other hand, while I've never had any personal dealings with them it seems pretty clear that Charlie and Dawn ran a serious business for many years. There's lots of personal setbacks that could make a small business fold, and so I'm willing to withhold my judgement until I know what actually went down.