Don't Go to Grad School

[tullytra]



I would be interested to see some statistics on this. I know close to everybody in the sciences gets a nice stipend and gets a full tuition waiver (or tuition paid, depending on the setup). Everyone that I know in the humanities has a tuition waiver and a fairly pitiful stipend, but none pay tuition. This is somewhat anecdotal, but I think a rather low fraction of doctoral students pay tuition.

This is what I've gathered, too, for business Ph.D. students. I worked with a professor who oversees the admissions of one Ph.D. program at a research university, and he laid out that the admits wouldn't pay tuition and would receive a stipend for research/teaching. Another professor of mine told a class about his Ph.D. views changing: at first he was happy that he was being paid to go to school; after a while he realized he was doing the same work as assistant/associate professors and was getting paid nothing compared to them.

 

[Redwoood]

I had to pay tuition, but got income from the university that exceeded that amount by enough to not starve (some would say enough to live). It's almost an accounting issue whether you want to count that as paying tuition. But if you don't get any stipend, and don't do teaching work, etc, your net effect is negative, which is why I would still consider it real tuition.
When funding runs out, this makes for a nice additional boost in motivation, btw
Note that tuition in Canada tends to be lower than in the US, especially for top-ranked institutions.

Piob's deal sounds like an executive-PhD of some sort, so yeah, no way you can get that without paying tuition.

 

[Lord-Barrington]

If you're paying even a dime of tuition for a PhD you're being a rube, period. There are plenty of good reasons to pay for a masters but never, ever, ever should you pay for a PhD. If you're good enough and the program wants you, it should be with a full ride+teaching stipend.

 

[JayJay]



If you're paying even a dime of tuition for a PhD you're being a rube, period. There are plenty of good reasons to pay for a masters but never, ever, ever should you pay for a PhD. If you're good enough and the program wants you, it should be with a full ride+teaching stipend.

Quoted for truth, and emphasis.

 

[Piobaire]



Piob's deal sounds like an executive-PhD of some sort, so yeah, no way you can get that without paying tuition.

Not an exec-Ph.D. As I said, it's a professional degree, not an academic one. (I've actually heard of exec master but not one for a doctorate).

Random Google results:

http://www.coph.ouhsc.edu/coph/degrees/degree-drph.asp
http://sph.bu.edu/Degree-Programs-a...tor-of-public-health-drph/menu-id-617202.html

The first two schools that popped up. As you can see, a professional degree, not an academic one.

I would agree never pay for an academic Ph.D. but a professional one is roughly equivalent to an MBA or JD, i.e. it prepares you for a job outside of academia.

 

[dtmt]

It seems that just like the housing bubble, the higher education bubble can only go on for as long as the easy financing lasts. Sure, the crash won't happen as quickly since student debt is much more difficult to discharge, but we will eventually reach a breaking point where with trillions of dollars of outstanding debt that has no chance of ever being repaid, banks/gov't simply aren't going to be able to afford to continue offering such loans.

 

[arced]



It seems that just like the housing bubble, the higher education bubble can only go on for as long as the easy financing lasts. Sure, the crash won't happen as quickly since student debt is much more difficult to discharge, but we will eventually reach a breaking point where with trillions of dollars of outstanding debt that has no chance of ever being repaid, banks/gov't simply aren't going to be able to afford to continue offering such loans.

The 'bubble' will break, but in different ways, just like the housing market. The high value properties (prestigious degrees from the Ivies, etc.) will retain their value, but those backed by subprime loans (specifically the for-profit ones like Phoenix or Kaplan) are going to suffer the most in value.

 

[erictheobscure]



Some of your comments are pretty damn concrete operational for a guy with a Ph.D! I mean, of course one needs to pay tuition but that really was not the point in my mentioning the need to pay tuition. Also, do you really think it's just the two letters I want? That this was not short hand for an entire suite of things?

As to the thesis:

I was recruited to be part of the first class of doctoral students where I obtained my master's degree. The two co-deans hosted the informational setting. When I inquired as to when one could start work on their thesis, they were aghast I had a topic (an extremely pertinent one, one that costs Medicare billions yearly and impacts 100's of thousands of patients and familes) and had already partnered with a nationally known physician to be my data gathering instrument. The looks they gave me were like I had just defecated on the floor and it was explained to me that this is "not how it's done!" I find an advisor and do the research this person wants, paying for the priviledge to do it, share any credit all after paying 10s of thousands in tuition for my course work.

No thanks.

Hey Piob, have you tried to secure funding so you can do your research? Sounds like that'd be a reasonable step given your situation.

 

[luftvier]

I only skimmed this thread, but another bad idea is law school. Just don't do it.

 

[arced]



I only skimmed this thread, but another bad idea is law school. Just don't do it.

Yeah, the numbers for law school don't look so go. Plus, it's harder to go to law school for free, so students tend to rack up huge debts quickly.

 

[Piobaire]



Hey Piob, have you tried to secure funding so you can do your research? Sounds like that'd be a reasonable step given your situation.

Nah. I'm a fat and happy salaryman. The research I had in mind, while very pertinent (had to do with PEG tubes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percutaneous_endoscopic_gastrostomy ), will get done at some point by other folks.

 

[erictheobscure]



Nah. I'm a fat and happy salaryman. The research I had in mind, while very pertinent (had to do with PEG tubes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percutaneous_endoscopic_gastrostomy ), will get done at some point by other folks.

Ha, just more proof that you have no need for a Ph.D. The typical doctoral candidate's mindset = "Holy ****, gotta finish this research before someone else beats me to it!"

BTW, I thought you were all svelte from your low glycemic index pasta.

 

[imatlas]



Just out of curiosity, are you out of college or still in school? Getting a job at Google is pretty damn difficult. This hypothetical French Lit student would need very good grades, an excellent resume, and fantastic interview skills. Maybe he/she didn't go to an Ivy League school, but you are talking about a similar caliber of person nonetheless. 95-99% of undergraduate humanities majors will not fair this well.

I might as well make up a hypothetical mechanic that makes millions per year based on his custom motorcycle reality show...

I'm well out of college, in fact old enough to have a college age child, and have worked in Silicon Valley for most of my professional career. I've done plenty of hiring in my day, and was using a specific example based on the hiring my company has done in the last few weeks - I used Google as a stand-in for my own company, where we just hired a newly minted French Literature BA to work in our translation and localization team. She interned here last summer, and demonstrated excellent translation skills that included a nuanced understanding of French culture, very helpful when localizing software (to help avoid the "Chevy No va in Latin America" problem).

Just because it's hard for anyone to get a job at Google doesn't rebut my point that a BA in humanities is more valuable to any tech company than a great resume from an experienced, skilled laborer with a high school diploma (to reiterate the original point that I was commenting on).

 

[austinite]



I'm well out of college, in fact old enough to have a college age child, and have worked in Silicon Valley for most of my professional career. I've done plenty of hiring in my day, and was using a specific example based on the hiring my company has done in the last few weeks - I used Google as a stand-in for my own company, where we just hired a newly minted French Literature BA to work in our translation and localization team. She interned here last summer, and demonstrated excellent translation skills that included a nuanced understanding of French culture, very helpful when localizing software (to help avoid the "Chevy No va in Latin America" problem).

Just because it's hard for anyone to get a job at Google doesn't rebut my point that a BA in humanities is more valuable to any tech company than a great resume from an experienced, skilled laborer with a high school diploma (to reiterate the original point that I was commenting on).

My point isn't really to suggest that students of exceptional intelligence who are seeking a degree in the humanities should instead become mechanics. However, It's a readily observable fact that such programs don't prepare students for employment (nor are they intended to), and in contrast to past decades, employers are significantly less willing to take on entry-level employees with no relevant skill set.

 

[imatlas]



My point isn't really to suggest that students of exceptional intelligence who are seeking a degree in the humanities should instead become mechanics. However, It's a readily observable fact that such programs don't prepare students for employment (nor are they intended to), and in contrast to past decades, employers are significantly less willing to take on entry-level employees with no relevant skill set.

I'm getting the feeling that people with little knowledge of the humanities are making some huge assumptions about what actually happens when you earn a BA in one of the humanities - a humanities program should teach a wide range of highly valued skills - skills like data analysis, communications, teamwork, etc, even as it is teaching about Rennaisance art, or linguistics, or pyschology, on an on. Are we on the same page now? Do you understand why it might make sense for my company to have hired a girl with very little work experience and a BA in French Literature, or am I not explaining myself well?

Also, if employers are less willing to take on entry-level employees with "no relevant skill set", it may have less to do with the relative merit of a humanities degree.as with the fact that in the present economy there is an overabundance of qualified, non-entry-level personnel for companies to choose among (which is actually not the case in Silicon Valley, btw - there is a shortage of qualified personnel).