Don't Go to Grad School

[erictheobscure]

Also, the "college bubble" isn't bursting, it's spreading worldwide. Schools like NYU are marketing themselves heavily as a global brand. Was talking to an NYU prof about all the crazy perks she'd get if she taught for a semester at their Abu Dhabi campus.

 

[austinite]

I think the problem is at the undergraduate level. Students, who were frequently high-achievers in HS, graduate with a BS in a subject of the humanities and have no real job prospects available. The reality is that they are now less employable than their low-achieving high school classmates that have spent four years working full time. Graduate school offers a path to hide from this reality for another 4-8 years. Going to a university to study the humanities is equivalent to taking a year off to travel the world. It may be very rewarding on a personal level, but it needs to be looked at as a luxury, not a means to an end.

 

[imatlas]



I think the problem is at the undergraduate level. Students, who were frequently high-achievers in HS, graduate with a BS in a subject of the humanities and have no real job prospects available. The reality is that they are now less employable than their low-achieving high school classmates that have spent four years working full time. Graduate school offers a path to hide from this reality for another 4-8 years. Going to a university to study the humanities is equivalent to taking a year off to travel the world. It may be very rewarding on a personal level, but it needs to be looked at as a luxury, not a means to an end.

Sorry, this is false. It's a common enough canard, but it's painfully myopic. Granted, a humanities BA doesn't offer an obvious path to a career, unlike say a degree in accounting, however the humanities grad has (potentially) developed a broader skill-set (analytical tools, critical thinking, communication, etc). Take a look at the following table (from Economics: Good Choice of Major for Future CEOs
By Patricia M. Flynn and Michael A. Quinn, http://www.cswep.org/papers/FlynnQuinn2006.pdf) - 34.3 percent of all S&P 500 CEOs in 2004 had undergraduate degrees in the Humanities:


Table 1. S&P 500 CEOs by Undergraduate Major, 2004

Number Percentage

Science & Engineering 141 28.1%

Biology 6 1.2
Computer Science 6 1.2
Engineering 103 20.5
Health Sciences 6 1.2
Sciences, n.e.c. 20 4.0

Liberal Arts 172 34.3

Economics 46 9.2
English 9 1.8
History 25 5.0
Liberal Arts, n.e.c 46 9.2
Math 17 3.4
Political Science 21 4.2
Psychology 4 0.8
Sociology 4 0.8

Business 143 28.5

Accounting 24 4.8
Business Administration 104 20.7
Finance 15 3.0

Other (Education) 1 0.2

Unspecified 37 7.4

No Degree 8 1.6

Total 502 100%
Note: There are 502 observations due to 2 companies having more than one
CEO in 2004; "n.e.c" stands for not elsewhere classified

 

[austinite]

I'd tend to guess that most of the people on that list went to extremely elite schools. No question a humanities graduate from Harvard is employable. I was talking about the the other 90-95%.

 

[Dashaansafin]



I'd tend to guess that most of the people on that list went to extremely elite schools. No question a humanities graduate from Harvard is employable. I was talking about the the other 90-95%.

Agreed. It's like those people who claim that college doesnt matter and say Bill gates and zuckerburg dropped out.....of Harvard. And Lloyd blankfien was a polisci major....at Harvard. Soros was a philosophy major....at LSE.

Give me a break. If you are a sociology/philo/Theo etc major at some middling college you aren't going anywhere.

 

[imatlas]

I'd tend to guess that most of the people on that list went to extremely elite schools. No question a humanities graduate from Harvard is employable. I was talking about the the other 90-95%.

Agreed. It's like those people who claim that college doesnt matter and say Bill gates and zuckerburg dropped out.....of Harvard. And Lloyd blankfien was a polisci major....at Harvard. Soros was a philosophy major....at LSE.

Give me a break. If you are a sociology/philo/Theo etc major at some middling college you aren't going anywhere.

Google is hard!

Surprisingly, Ivy League graduates do not dominate the top fifty Fortune 500 Companies. When measuring CEO undergraduate education, the University of Texas system has just as much representation as Harvard: a total of 3 CEOs. What does this mean for students? An elite career doesn�t always stem from an elite education.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html#ixzz1TWjvba1P

 

[Viktri]

you're not comparing the same population or accounting for luck

 

[Dashaansafin]

I'd tend to guess that most of the people on that list went to extremely elite schools. No question a humanities graduate from Harvard is employable. I was talking about the the other 90-95%.

Agreed. It's like those people who claim that college doesnt matter and say Bill gates and zuckerburg dropped out.....of Harvard. And Lloyd blankfien was a polisci major....at Harvard. Soros was a philosophy major....at LSE.

Give me a break. If you are a sociology/philo/Theo etc major at some middling college you aren't going anywhere.

Google is hard!

Surprisingly, Ivy League graduates do not dominate the top fifty Fortune 500 Companies. When measuring CEO undergraduate education, the University of Texas system has just as much representation as Harvard: a total of 3 CEOs. What does this mean for students? An elite career doesn�t always stem from an elite education.



http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html#ixzz1TWjvba1P

Sigh. Same argument is always presented when one is questioned why one didn't go to a good school.

"Oh I dont need it. Look at this report! It says the school with the mist CEOs went to Xavier! Xavier is better than Harvard!"

Brilliant. The CEO of my company went to a state school. Great. Want to know where everyone else under him went to? All ivy/top 20 schools. IT guys went to Texas.

No one is saying that it's impossible to become elite with a non ivy education, but it sure is harder.

 

[imatlas]

I'd tend to guess that most of the people on that list went to extremely elite schools. No question a humanities graduate from Harvard is employable. I was talking about the the other 90-95%.

Agreed. It's like those people who claim that college doesnt matter and say Bill gates and zuckerburg dropped out.....of Harvard. And Lloyd blankfien was a polisci major....at Harvard. Soros was a philosophy major....at LSE.

Give me a break. If you are a sociology/philo/Theo etc major at some middling college you aren't going anywhere.

Google is hard!

Surprisingly, Ivy League graduates do not dominate the top fifty Fortune 500 Companies. When measuring CEO undergraduate education, the University of Texas system has just as much representation as Harvard: a total of 3 CEOs. What does this mean for students? An elite career doesn�t always stem from an elite education.



http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html#ixzz1TWjvba1P

Sigh. Same argument is always presented when one is questioned why one didn't go to a good school.

"Oh I dont need it. Look at this report! It says the school with the mist CEOs went to Xavier! Xavier is better than Harvard!"

Brilliant. The CEO of my company went to a state school. Great. Want to know where everyone else under him went to? All ivy/top 20 schools. IT guys went to Texas.

No one is saying that it's impossible to become elite with a non ivy education, but it sure is harder.

Which I agree with 100%, and actually this is a complete distraction from the point that I was responding to, which was the rant against majoring in the humanities at all that was posted above.

 

[austinite]



Which I agree with 100%, and actually this is a complete distraction from the point that I was responding to, which was the rant against majoring in the humanities at all that was posted above.

I hope you aren't referring to my post as a rant against majoring in the humanities. I have absolutely nothing against the study of the humanities, and am very happy that it exists. I simply believe that an 18 year old who believes that going to a university to study the humanities will improve his employment outlook is very misguided.

It should be said that I went to a highly ranked university, but one that is a very large state school. I can certainly see how someone from an tiny elite liberal arts school would have a different perspective, but that isn't really a relevant comparison, as the vast majority of people in college are not at this type of school.

 

[imatlas]

Students, who were frequently high-achievers in HS, graduate with a BS in a subject of the humanities and have no real job prospects available. The reality is that they are now less employable than their low-achieving high school classmates that have spent four years working full time.

This is really what I was responding too, and I'd like to think that I've cast at least some doubt on your proposition that a graduate with a BS in the humanities is less employable than a high school graduate with 4 years of work experience. If not, ask yourself which of these two would have an easier job getting an entry level job at a software company: a college graduate with a BA in french literature, or an experienced, licensed mechanic. Here's a hint: it's not the mechanic.

 

[austinite]



Students, who were frequently high-achievers in HS, graduate with a BS in a subject of the humanities and have no real job prospects available. The reality is that they are now less employable than their low-achieving high school classmates that have spent four years working full time.

This is really what I was responding too, and I'd like to think that I've cast at least some doubt on your proposition that a graduate with a BS in the humanities is less employable than a high school graduate with 4 years of work experience. If not, ask yourself which of these two would have an easier job getting an entry level job at a software company: a college graduate with a BA in french literature, or an experienced, licensed mechanic. Here's a hint: it's not the mechanic.

My response is that the mechanic's job could very well pay more. I agree that ****** office jobs frequently require a degree. I don't think the humanities BS would be able to get a job as anything more than a receptionist, call center person, or MAYBE a commission-based sales role at this software company unless they had an enormous amount of hobbyist software experience. I will grant you that one can certainly move up the totem poll once they get their foot in. My take, however, is that most college graduates expect the world to be handed to them immediately upon receiving their degree, and my original example is that the humanities BS would see these receptionist and call-center offers, decide they are not good enough, and then enroll in grad school. This has to be at least half of the law school population.

IMO, If your goal is to be gainfully employed, you are likely better off doing a two-year program to be an ambulance driver, an apprenticeship to be a plumber, a course to be a power line installer, etc than a 4 year degree in humanities at a state school. I think the college educated portion of our society really underrates this.

 

[scientific]

advice is kind of pointless. the qualified sort themselves out. the rest go to humanities grad school.

 

[youngScholar]



Graduate school applications generally request three reference letters, and often require that at least one of these be from a professor or other faculty member who will know your academic ability and work ethic. . .

While someone may have great academic ability and (academic) work ethic, this may not actually translate into getting a good job. Profs may not even be considering the latter. If anything, the opinion seems to be that professors should take a harder line as to how they evaluate students for graduate school rather than effectively saying "You're brilliant!" and just writing letters of reference.

 

[gomestar]



Google is hard!

Surprisingly, Ivy League graduates do not dominate the top fifty Fortune 500 Companies. When measuring CEO undergraduate education, the University of Texas system has just as much representation as Harvard: a total of 3 CEOs. What does this mean for students? An elite career doesn�t always stem from an elite education.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html#ixzz1TWjvba1P

UT System student population: 190,000
Harvard student population: 7,100 undergrads and 14,000 postgrads